City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

[cyberman]

Winning trophies is really the only way these days to "gain" new fans, kids these days have a tendency to support whichever team is winning the trophies at the time they start following football

I dont think that’s true. Success is quickly forgotten and confirmation bias rears its head the first time the winners fall again.
Look at Liverpool now. You’d never have known Trent has literally won it all.
Football these days is what have you done for me lately?

 

[BluesJr]

Not strictly related to the case but this is embarrassing and further highlights their irrelevant exsistence.

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Imagine being the most successful team of the last ten years and literally no one gives a feck.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

I think this point is taken as truth by a lot of people on here and frankly, historical success gets overvalued massively by legacy fans.



Then don't

I think you have missed the point completely if you think it’s about historical success.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

What happened to all the Blackburn fans from the mid 90s? Their shirts were everywhere , even in the south of England.

 

[cyberman]

What happened to all the Blackburn fans from the mid 90s? Their shirts were everywhere , even in the south of England.

I grew up in the north of Ireland and my mate is still a Blackburn fan

 

[Red in STL]

I dont think that’s true. Success is quickly forgotten and confirmation bias rears its head the first time the winners fall again.
Look at Liverpool now. You’d never have known Trent has literally won it all.
Football these days is what have you done for me lately?

I should have also added that when the team starts losing the don't stick with them they switch to the new top club. that's why we call them plastic and gloryhunters

 

[Fts 74]

As I understand it after reading a bit about the background, it's taken 4 years for the PL to finally charge them because City have done absolutely everything to derail the investigation, ignoring requests for documents appealing through various courts claiming they won't get a fair hearing, various injuctions to keep it out of the public domain eventually ending up in the court of appeal in front of 3 of the UKs most senior judges who expressed dismay at how long the whole process has taken and ultimately ruled against City saying it was of considerable public interest.

They did exactly the same with UEFA,but this time there is no time barring and no appeal to CAS.No doubt they won't co operate taking it to the absolute limit legally and depending on the punishment appeal although that would mean a fresh panel not the courts.

I think they know their bang to rights on a lot of it,hence the constant delaying and secrecy tactics,so they'll just try and use every trick in the book to let it rumble on for years.

Horrible fake club.

 

[Jeppers7]

I think this point is taken as truth by a lot of people on here and frankly, historical success gets overvalued massively by legacy fans.



Then don't

You’re so bitter about United it’s hilarious….City have basically signed up to the same rules as everybody else, everyone else has abided by the rules and City have cheated every team in the league over a ten year period….and you can’t get past United. Who have been in the Europa for much of that time and won two trophies in six years. Cry more

 

[Semper Fudge]

I think this point is taken as truth by a lot of people on here and frankly, historical success gets overvalued massively by legacy fans.



Then don't

Who do you actually support? Because it's not United.

 

[cyberman]

I should have also added that when the team starts losing the don't stick with them they switch to the new top club. that's why we call them plastic and gloryhunters

But how would City grow? They won’t gain any English fans it’s too tribal. La Liga fans and clubs hates oil clubs guts, ditto for Germans etc.
Where’s the scope for growth in a sport that has 90 percent of the fanbase hate everything you stand for? The big clubs aren’t big because of their main fanbase. They’re big because they’re a lot of lower clubs fans second clubs. They’re the team they root for in English football and is why the tv contracts are so large. Not only did City become so many fans of the most supported teams in the worlds rivals but became rivals of fans in 4th /5th tier etc fans as well
Even the glory is empty. They have nothing that sticks for City

 

[cyberman]

Who do you actually support? Because it's not United.

Yeah, the mask has slipped over this

 

[Red in STL]

I think this point is taken as truth by a lot of people on here and frankly, historical success gets overvalued massively by legacy fans.

As an Arsenal fan have you already dismissed the legacies of your club, the achivements of Henry, Bergkamp, Wenger, Adams etc as overvalued?

 

[Mullet_Man]

As I understand it after reading a bit about the background, it's taken 4 years for the PL to finally charge them because City have done absolutely everything to derail the investigation, ignoring requests for documents appealing through various courts claiming they won't get a fair hearing, various injuctions to keep it out of the public domain eventually ending up in the court of appeal in front of 3 of the UKs most senior judges who expressed dismay at how long the whole process has taken and ultimately ruled against City saying it was of considerable public interest.

They did exactly the same with UEFA,but this time there is no time barring and no appeal to CAS.No doubt they won't co operate taking it to the absolute limit legally and depending on the punishment appeal although that would mean a fresh panel not the courts.

I think they know their bang to rights on a lot of it,hence the constant delaying and secrecy tactics,so they'll just try and use every trick in the book to let it rumble on for years.

Horrible fake club.

It's funny how the innocent of all 100+ charges Man City need to do everything they can to ignore, derail and take out court injunctions.

The Premier League must have enough evidence or they wouldn't have carried on the investigation, I just don't have much faith that they will get what they fully deserve. Suspect they will get massive fines, points deductions even relegated but it will go to appeals in they will end up with like 3 points deduced and a massive fine and they will end up just carrying on doing the same over and over.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Really makes you wonder how much they've spent on bribing the media for good publicity since the takeover.

They've spent fortunes. I remember in 2009 there WERE some journo's who came forward to write what city were doing with them - 5 star dining, "gift' packages, extremely lavish treatment - but all the articles soon dried up and presumably most journalists (some of whom had axes to grind against Sir Alex Ferguson anyway) joined the pigs in the trough. Does anyone expect that they left any stone unturned when it came to corrupting people in football to their own end, given what we know about them?

 

[UDontMessWith24]

"Legacy fans"

You really think a decade plus is enough for City to start from scratch in the international market, and position itself alongside not just United/Liverpool, but Madrid/Barca, Serie A sides that gained a lot of international traction in the 90s, Bayern, or even a club like Ajax. Those club's global brands go back decades, and then you have Arsenal and Chelsea, who may have only become big global brands in the 90s and 00s, but unlike City, they weren't starting from scratch in that regard. It's completely unrealistic.

 

[adexkola]

As an Arsenal fan have you already dismissed the legacies of your club, the achivements of Henry, Bergkamp, Wenger, Adams etc as overvalued?

If I was an Arsenal fan, I'd say the successes of those players factor less than current achievements of Arsenal when it comes to figuring out expected income

 

[JinnerJamie]

 

[adexkola]

Who do you actually support? Because it's not United.

I support people not standing up in planes as soon as the plane gets to the gate

 

[Red in STL]

If I was an Arsenal fan, I'd say the successes of those players factor less than current achievements of Arsenal when it comes to figuring out expected income

Well your profile suggested you are, in terms of expected income of course not but that's not quite what you said - quote below

"I think this point is taken as truth by a lot of people on here and frankly, historical success gets overvalued massively by legacy fans."

 

[Kinsella]

 

[adexkola]

Well your profile suggested you are, in terms of expected income of course not but that's not quite what you said - quote below

"I think this point is taken as truth by a lot of people on here and frankly, historical success gets overvalued massively by legacy fans."

Yes I stand on what I said.

I'm not saying it's not a factor. I'm not even saying it's not important. I'm saying that it seems like many fans of traditional big clubs overvalue it's importance. To the point that it's more important you have a "history" than be successful in the moment.

 

[Withnail]

I think this point is taken as truth by a lot of people on here and frankly, historical success gets overvalued massively by legacy fans.

Trolling surely?

 

[adexkola]

Trolling surely?

Why are opposing opinions interpreted as trolling?

And to be clear I mean fans of traditional blue blood teams in the league. United, Arsenal, Liverpool.

 

[Withnail]

Why are opposing opinions interpreted as trolling?

And to be clear I mean fans of traditional blue blood teams in the league. United, Arsenal, Liverpool.

Using the term legacy fans is no way to be taken seriously. I've only seen 'legacy fans' used in the context of the corporate marketting waffle of the Super League about a new breed of fan or 'fan of the future' who cares about superstars rather than teams.

You seem to be using it to mean something completely different but I don't think it's what people will assume you mean.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

Nor should you but this should be what City fans see as a chance to get the club back, don't get me wrong it was fun winding people up on here for the past 8 years or whatever. But this is the time for real change, hopefully then the government don't swallow what the PL are doing by offering City up to avoid a regulator and others follow suit.

City will still go on even if we have to do a Rangers, but hopefully it changes our ownership and leads to widescale looks into all clubs and the league itself. Its a great chance to deal with Cities owners and clean the league completely.

Just imagine in a few years, us in the national league owned by Richard Dunne and Paul Dickov and United owned by Quataris. Oh, how we will be doing some winding up then

 

[AndySmith1990]

Yes I stand on what I said.

I'm not saying it's not a factor. I'm not even saying it's not important. I'm saying that it seems like many fans of traditional big clubs overvalue it's importance. To the point that it's more important you have a "history" than be successful in the moment.

Only a child or a fair weather fan would belittle the importance of a clubs history. Shows you don't really understand the club and you have no emotional investment in the subject you're talking about

 

[The Irish Connection]

Can we all just take a moment to remember the Busby babes, Sir Matt and Jimmy Murphy again.
They built the club back up from the ashes through great coaching, academy work, fan support and grit , only to go on and win the European cup ten years later.
All this was done completely legitimately.
That’s what you call legacy.

 

[cyberman]

Just imagine in a few years, us in the national league owned by Richard Dunne and Paul Dickov and United owned by Quataris. Oh, how we will be doing some winding up then

Liverpool Tenth with United having the chance to win exactly what they won last season, hell could be more if the season goes just right with us while City get relegated, lose their money and we become richer than they ever did.
Somewhere a United supporter has only two wishes left

 

[UDontMessWith24]

Yes I stand on what I said.

I'm not saying it's not a factor. I'm not even saying it's not important. I'm saying that it seems like many fans of traditional big clubs overvalue it's importance. To the point that it's more important you have a "history" than be successful in the moment.

Basic business and marketing. History has nothing to do with it.

 

[TsuWave]

I see that the caf's favorite neutral observer is putting on a masterclass in the art of spouting waffle in a most cocksure manner!

This thread is entertaining as hell

 

[sglowrider]

When their finances are stripped away they won’t be allowed to keep their stars since they can’t afford them.
There will probably be new owners as well. The entire project will fall apart.
Even if they are big enough to attract new sponsors, who would rant their brand associates with this after a guilty verdict?

Have they solved the parachute money the relegated clubs get when they drop into the Championship? A few relegated clubs were accused of breaking the Championship's own FFP rules after they dropped. I think QPR was one of them in the past.
Or if City gets demoted to the Championship due to financial irregularities they will not be entitled to the parachute money? Then they would have to dump all their current players just to stay within the Championship's FFP.

 

[BlueHaze]

Can we all just take a moment to remember the Busby babes, Sir Matt and Jimmy Murphy again.
They built the club back up from the ashes through great coaching, academy work, fan support and grit , only to go on and win the European cup ten years later.
All this was done completely legitimately.
That’s what you call legacy.

Amen

 

[padr81]

Just imagine in a few years, us in the national league owned by Richard Dunne and Paul Dickov and United owned by Quataris. Oh, how we will be doing some winding up then

Dunne will probably drink what few bob we scrape off the floor as ADUG walk out.

 

[BlueHaze]

@The Irish Connection

 

[Klopper76]

I dont think that’s true. Success is quickly forgotten and confirmation bias rears its head the first time the winners fall again.
Look at Liverpool now. You’d never have known Trent has literally won it all.
Football these days is what have you done for me lately?

This is so true.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I’d say United and Liverpool and even maybe Leeds will always have massive followings, their support is past down through family generations.
Flash in the pans like Man City will die away just as Blackburn have.

 

[Red in STL]

I’d say United and Liverpool and even maybe Leeds will always have massive followings, their support is past down through family generations.
Flash in the pans like Man City will die away just as Blackburn have.

And so is City's support, they're hardly flash in the pans either, they won a European trophy before Liverpool ever did and at the same time as Arsenal won their first European trophy

 

[FeedTheGoat]

And so is City's support, they're hardly flash in the pans either, they won a European trophy before Liverpool ever did and at the same time as Arsenal won their first European trophy

Yeah, newer generations actually believing the memes that we have a historically small fan-base is one of the few things that grind my gears

 

[croadyman]

Charlie Wyett channeling his Howard Donald earlier on SSN Back Pages Tonight

 

[Bluelion7]

Winning isnt necessarily the “only” way to get fans. It helps a ton. But what if City wasn’t bound by FFP at all? They wouldn’t bother to care what income they reported. They could let people in for free; first come first serve. Maybe first concession free?

People might be like “no way, United til I die” for awhile, or just generally not care. But in age if inflation and recession maybe being Able to take your kid to a high quality football match for free is too tempting to pass up. Maybe then the kid starts asking “why don’t we support City? We go to every game?”

With ownership groups that are simply very rich you don’t have to worry about this. But with a nation state? Especially where “sportswashing”is the primary thing you want to buy anyway?

If an ownership group is backed by a nation state or ruling family it is t hard to discover beforehand. They simply shouldn’t have been let in; not because teams should be restricted in spending based on their existing brand, but because state wealth has a much dirtier capacity than just endless money (and they are the only ones with ‘endless’ money) . They can leverage a complete disregard for money..

I still think the thread title should be changed. After reading through the charges there were barely 5 pertaining to FFP directly. This is issue is MUCH more serious: it is Fraud.

The unknown period the commission takes while their fate is up in the air could be even more damaging than the actual result.

People like Guardiola whose brand and reputation have monetary value … if they were misled through fraud … they would have recourse in our country to sue.

If there are agents who helped secure contracts attached to shadow contracts … those agents licenses can be potentially stripped.

Will players come forward to testify to committee on shady contracts to avoid being dragged in for questioning and made public?

So many questions.

With all that money, resources, and power… the arrogance to lie so lazily… and the stupidity to commit fraud … it’s amazing.

I do not know if this is true in Britain, but here in America we have dumb people make the mistake of lying to the FBI. Their original transgressions would have been a slap on the wrist… the lying is a MUCH worse crime.

Same here I think. FFP would have been some periodic escalating slaps. The level of the fraud though … that becomes an actual law break… the cover up once again worse than the crime itself.