CL/EL Knockout Draw | United draw Brugge | City vs Real & Liverpool vs Atletico

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Is this the first time that there are only 5 countries in round 16 CL?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

If Laporte is back against Real, I think they have good chance to win. Pep will be fully focus on CL more than the league now, I think they will beat Real.

 

[rojo81]

Real have a lot of flaws though. Nowhere near as solid defensively as they have been in years past, and quited reliant on Benzema. I can see them being very reactive in this tie, but I'm not sure they're sharp or quick enough in attack to do what we did against City.

Reckon the rest of your predictions are pretty spot on, though Leipzig could be a tougher the for Spurs than most think.

I agree this isn't the best real, but IMO they have improved compared to how the season started. City hasn't been that good this year either. I think it's a close tie, but if I had to bet id bet on real.

 

[Suedesi]

Madrid are favorites 100%. City is so overrated on these shores. They somehow always start at favorites despite making the semifinals of the CL exactly one time in their entire history. It’s laughable. The definition of winning without winning

 

[RoyH1]

I'm pretty baffled about the general perception of Real here. What have they accomplished so far to justify all the praise?
Right now they are a badly balanced assembly of young talents and washed up Superstars with too much success under their bellies to give a feck.
I think City is going to walk this.

They're a different beast altogether in Champions League. They simply turn on the afterburnerr when they're playing that competition.

Yes City has a more balanced team and plays the better football. No questions. And they will run circles around Madrid with the ball. But every time there's a free kick or corner and Mr Toni Kroos is putting the ball in to mrs Ramos, Varane and Casemiro, Guardiola will be holding his breath. There's more than one way to win a football game.

 

[2ndTouch]

They're a different beast altogether in Champions League. They simply turn on the afterburnerr when they're playing that competition.

They *used* to be that way, it ain't 2016 anymore. Their crunch time players have left or are busy playing Golf, the rest cannot be arsed anymore, like Kroos.
In addition, their defensive set up is everything but solid, especially their FB positions. They'll have a hard time against all these pacey wingers like Sterling, Sane, Silva.
The most convincing performance I've seen from them is year were those 60 mins in their home game against PSG, and even that they couldn't win in the end.
Sure, football is unpredictable, a City player could get red carded 2 mins in, etc, but under normal circumstances I cannot see past City as the clear favorites here.

 

[Stocar]

Madrid are favorites 100%. City is so overrated on these shores. They somehow always start at favorites despite making the semifinals of the CL exactly one time in their entire history. It’s laughable. The definition of winning without winning

I guess you're so much smarter than all those bookmakers. Profound knowledge on display right here.

 

[soccergirl]

This is the funniest cartoon ever, it the new episode, watch it if you haven't.
The part about Ole is just so funny, I mean in a good way because I actually like Ole.

Youtube video link below:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8VrwQjSY6s

“I don’t park the bus, I GUN IT !!!”
Ole Gunnar 2019.

 

[Bepi]

Madrid are favorites 100%. City is so overrated on these shores. They somehow always start at favorites despite making the semifinals of the CL exactly one time in their entire history. It’s laughable. The definition of winning without winning

this, really... city & guardiola never delivered in the cl and are now drawn against the cl team benchmark... clear underdogs, irrespective of bookies that just adjust their quotes in accordance with the anglo-centric mugs from south-east asia

 

[TheOx]

Is this the first time that there are only 5 countries in round 16 CL?

First time in a long time (I think 8, 10 years?)

Not sure if it's the first time ever... probably not.

 

[RoyH1]

Their crunch time players have left or are busy playing Golf, the rest cannot be arsed anymore, like Kroos.
In addition, their defensive set up is everything but solid, especially their FB positions. They'll have a hard time against all these pacey wingers like Sterling, Sane, Silva.
The most convincing performance I've seen from them is year were those 60 mins in their home game against PSG, and even that they couldn't win in the end.
Sure, football is unpredictable, a City player could get red carded 2 mins in,

Kroos cannot be arsed? It's clear to me that you haven't seen them play more than the odd CL game this year. Kroos has been having one of his best seasons as a Madrid player.

We'll just have to wait and see. Like I said, yes City is the better team but Madrid has a history and an attitude in this competition that few teams can match (Bayern being one of them). City just doesn't bring it in the CL the way they do in the Premiership.

 

[2ndTouch]

Kroos cannot be arsed? It's clear to me that you haven't seen them play more than the odd CL game this year. Kroos has been having one of his best seasons as a Madrid player.

We'll just have to wait and see. Like I said, yes City is the better team but Madrid has a history and an attitude in this competition that few teams can match (Bayern being one of them). City just doesn't bring it in the CL the way they do in the Premiership.

The odd CL games are what matters. We wouldn't be talking of Real as a 3x serial winner, if domestic form was a decisive factor.

 

[RoyH1]

The odd CL games are what matters. We wouldn't be talking of Real as a 3x serial winner, if domestic form was a decisive factor.

And there Kroos has also been one of their standouts. He's having a formidable season. Most accurate passer in Europe by a mile. But I digress. You think City will walk it. I don't think City can walk it against any "big" club in the knockout phases of the Champions League, including the 13 times European champions Real Madrid. I'll leave it at that.

 

[JDoe]

I guess you're so much smarter than all those bookmakers. Profound knowledge on display right here.

Bookmakers are trying to get the best odds not what team they believe are better, but what the betting folks do. Most people betting in the UK are heavily influenced by what they see in the PL and what they are getting told how European clubs are performing. Although I could see City advance, Madrid should definitely be favorites against a team that has been very underwhelming under a coach who also has been very underwhelming in the CL for almost a decade now.

City have the better players, but Madrid has the better coach for the CL.

 

[2ndTouch]

And there Kroos has also been one of their standouts. He's having a formidable season. Most accurate passer in Europe by a mile. But I digress. You think City will walk it. I don't think City can walk it against any "big" club in the knockout phases of the Champions League, including the 13 times European champions Real Madrid. I'll leave it at that.

Didn't propel them to winning the group, though. Actually they have played one of their worst CL stages in history, despite Kroos being "the shit" in midfield. Their difference makers are gone or sidelined. They don't score an awful lot, and their front line is really lacking apart from Benzema.
But somehow all these facts mean nothing according to you, because "history" and "lol, Pep sucks". Well, we'll see how it pans out 2 months down the road.

 

[Stocar]

Bookmakers are trying to get the best odds not what team they believe are better, but what the betting folks do.

If that's how they went about their business, every dummy from the nearest pub (or football forum) would be able to eventually get rich by taking advantage on their supposed misjudgements.

They actually use advanced stats and analytics, and are generally conservative in their estimations. If they really relied solely on popular opinion and hype, Liverpool would probably be overwhelming favorites. As it stands, with all their flaws and misfortunes this season, they still see City as the team playing the best football in the world. And there actually are stats to back it up.

 

[Stocar]

Speaking of that, I also don't see City winning it. There are objective reasons for it (like with any other team). For example, their style of football not being conducive to winning knockout ties, and even a certain mental block. Also their fragility and complacency this season. But the quality of football is still there, and both eye test and advanced stats testify for it. Points difference from the league leaders is simply one of those bizarre things that happen in football.

Still, I don't see them winning it, but I am at least aware that this subjective judgement is based more on feeling and hunch than on objective facts. And bookmakers simply need to disregard subjective feelings and hunches, or they would eventually be out of business. While they take popular opinion into equation, they certainly don't blindly rely on it.

What I find most irritating are people arrogantly stating their opinions as some particularly lucid and original football expertise, that is also based on cold hard facts. While it's actually one-dimensional, hype-based, and largely subjective drivel you'll hear in every pub.

 

[Suedesi]

I guess you're so much smarter than all those bookmakers. Profound knowledge on display right here.

I’m sorry did you have an actual point?

 

[Suedesi]

Speaking of that, I also don't see City winning it. There are objective reasons for it (like with any other team). For example, their style of football not being conducive to winning knockout ties, and even a certain mental block. Also their fragility and complacency this season. But the quality of football is still there, and both eye test and advanced stats testify for it. Points difference from the league leaders is simply one of those bizarre things that happen in football.

Still, I don't see them winning it, but I am at least aware that this subjective judgement is based more on feeling and hunch than on objective facts. And bookmakers simply need to disregard subjective feelings and hunches, or they would eventually be out of business. While they take popular opinion into equation, they certainly don't blindly rely on it.

What I find most irritating are people arrogantly stating their opinions as some particularly lucid and original football expertise, that is also based on cold hard facts. While it's actually one-dimensional, hype-based, and largely subjective drivel you'll hear in every pub.

It's absurd to claim that bookies cannot be wrong - "experts" are not immune to cognitive dissonance.

I'll give you an example of a much more sophisticated market than betting markets, one with trillions of dollars in play every day one that is researched, talked about and acted on every second of everyday... the financial market.

All year long traders and investors had to constantly listen to scores of fundamental analysts predicting a crash while markets were advancing. You have all these smart people making logical arguments based on some selective facts, using advanced econometric models and stats and whatnot saying the market will crash. On the other hand prices were making new all-time highs. All experts were predicting given the trade war with China, Trump, frothy levels the market will crash. S&P 500 is up ~30% YTD, in one of the best years ever. So if you listened to the 'bookies' you'd be down at least 30%, if not more.

Take that to the bank.

 

[Stocar]

That's a bad comparison actually. Stock market is more "sophisticated" in a sense that it's more chaotic, volatile, artificially inflated, politicized, etc. Sports betting is actually quite stable and rational system in comparison.

Just stop for a second and think. Are you and other fans really so much smarter in this particular case?

 

[Bepi]

Just stop for a second and think. Are you and other fans really so much smarter in this particular case?

It is called domain knowledge these days but you can also use pedigree or uefadrid/uefalona sort of conspiracy theory if you like chemtrails other than stats.

 

[2ndTouch]

It's absurd to claim that bookies cannot be wrong - "experts" are not immune to cognitive dissonance.

Does it even matter what "bookies" are thinking?
I'm pretty sure betting agencies are calculating the odds through algorithms and little else.

 

[Suedesi]

That's a bad comparison actually. Stock market is more "sophisticated" in a sense that it's more chaotic, volatile, artificially inflated, politicized, etc. Sports betting is actually quite stable and rational system in comparison.

Just stop for a second and think. Are you and other fans really so much smarter in this particular case?

You're having a laugh if you're thinking asset managers betting trillions are being emotional and taken advantage of a "chaotic, volatile, artificially inflated, politicized" environment whereas the average punter putting a fiver in his betting slip does so in a stable and rational system.

 

[Suedesi]

Does it even matter what "bookies" are thinking?
I'm pretty sure betting agencies are calculating the odds through algorithms and little else.

Most bookies are running a perfectly hedged book and skimming a spread of the bid/ask. What matters most is supply and demand, and if you have a large portion of the population that's been pumped into thinking that City are the best thing since sliced bread - and are willing to bet on that, the odds will reflect that.

That's it, not rocket science.

Anyways back to the topic at hand, I don’t think City can beat Real honestly.

 

[adexkola]

If Simeone can get his attack on fire I'll fancy them against Liverpool, even with the second leg at Anfield.

 

[Stocar]

Most bookies are running a perfectly hedged book and skimming a spread of the bid/ask. What matters most is supply and demand, and if you have a large portion of the population that's been pumped into thinking that City are the best thing since sliced bread - and are willing to bet on that, the odds will reflect that.

That's it, not rocket science.

Yeah, it's amazing how pub wisdom of this sort doesn't produce millionaires. I mean, it's not rocket science and apparently these bookies don't possess the knowledge of an average fan. It should be free money in the long run for geniuses like yourself.

Anyway, don't want to waste time on this drivel anymore. But mind to explain why Liverpool aren't overwhelming favorites if the odds are based on hype and popular opininon?

 

[Suedesi]

I guess you're so much smarter than all those bookmakers. Profound knowledge on display right here.

That's a bad comparison actually. Stock market is more "sophisticated" in a sense that it's more chaotic, volatile, artificially inflated, politicized, etc. Sports betting is actually quite stable and rational system in comparison.

Just stop for a second and think. Are you and other fans really so much smarter in this particular case?

What I find most irritating are people arrogantly stating their opinions as some particularly lucid and original football expertise, that is also based on cold hard facts. While it's actually one-dimensional, hype-based, and largely subjective drivel you'll hear in every pub.

Yeah, it's amazing how pub wisdom of this sort doesn't produce millionaires. I mean, it's not rocket science and apparently these bookies don't possess the knowledge of an average fan. It should be free money in the long run for geniuses like yourself.

Anyway, don't want to waste time on this drivel anymore. But mind to explain why Liverpool aren't overwhelming favorites if the odds are based on hype and popular opininon?

Do you really expect me to engage after all this condescending crap you wrote? If you want a debate maybe you should employ of modicum of courtesy on these boards.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Has anyone said "crusin' for a Bruggein' yet?

 

[GatoLoco]

Didn't propel them to winning the group, though. Actually they have played one of their worst CL stages in history, despite Kroos being "the shit" in midfield. Their difference makers are gone or sidelined. They don't score an awful lot, and their front line is really lacking apart from Benzema.
But somehow all these facts mean nothing according to you, because "history" and "lol, Pep sucks". Well, we'll see how it pans out 2 months down the road.

The worst CL stage I've seen from Madrid happened in 2000, the second stage in the tournament. They scored 11 goals and conceded 12, lost 2-4 and 4-1 vs Bayern Munich.

However, they won the trophy months later after eliminating Manchester United, Bayern Munich and Valencia (3-0) in the final.

Point being, group stages are not the best reference for Madrid because they tend to transform themselves in knockout scenarios.

Having said that, I think City are favourites for this tie.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Do you really expect me to engage after all this condescending crap you wrote? If you want a debate maybe you should employ of modicum of courtesy on these boards.

Stocar is the one talking sense about bookmaking on this page though.

And City are such overwhelming favourites to progress that claiming they are actually underdogs is more than a little outlandish.

 

[2ndTouch]

Point being, group stages are not the best reference for Madrid because they tend to transform themselves in knockout scenarios.

Assuming they have the right set of world class players, that is...

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Real Madrid only won 3 of the last 4 CL tournaments, whereas City have only beaten one big team in PSG since they won the lottery.

On the basis of experience, pedigree, know-how etc, Real Madrid have to be favorites. And City's form recently is nothing to write home about

Its not just that. European nights involves entire staffs of the team, the preparation of stadium, the media, the handling of the world of pressure.. It permeates the whole club. Real Madrid is a behemoth at that.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

This is the funniest cartoon ever, it the new episode, watch it if you haven't.
The part about Ole is just so funny, I mean in a good way because I actually like Ole.

Youtube video link below:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8VrwQjSY6s

“I don’t park the bus, I GUN IT !!!”
Ole Gunnar 2019.

I was gonna post this myself. Been watching it since last season. They're great.

 

[sangria]

This is the funniest cartoon ever, it the new episode, watch it if you haven't.
The part about Ole is just so funny, I mean in a good way because I actually like Ole.

Youtube video link below:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8VrwQjSY6s

“I don’t park the bus, I GUN IT !!!”
Ole Gunnar 2019.

Jose to Kane: "We have three whole years before that (bus crash) happens."