Climate Change | UN Report: Code Red for humanity

[calodo2003]

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[Jericholyte2]

Finally got around to watching ‘Big Oil vs The World’ - there’s no conclusion other than we’re doomed, right?

All for fecking money.

 

[calodo2003]

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[Buster15]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61552315

I don't care how they try to package it, artificial grass is just a terrible thing for the natural world. I for one will never ever consider it.
Just more green coloured plastic pollution. The absolute last thing we need with man made climate change and the diminished wildlife.
Come on people. Do the right thing for a change.
If you can not be bothered with a lawn, plant ground cover.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61552315

I don't care how they try to package it, artificial grass is just a terrible thing for the natural world. I for one will never ever consider it.
Just more green coloured plastic pollution. The absolute last thing we need with man made climate change and the diminished wildlife.
Come on people. Do the right thing for a change.
If you can not be bothered with a lawn, plant ground cover.

We need to just bin the idea of the green grass lawn being essential to a household altogether. The disproportionate amount of air, water, and earth being wasted or abused relative to a lawn’s value to society is absurd.

 

[Cheimoon]

We need to just bin the idea of the green grass lawn being essential to a household altogether. The disproportionate amount of air, water, and earth being wasted or abused relative to a lawn’s value to society is absurd.

Absolutely. Long-term, I want to cover as much of my terrain with bushes and flowers as I can, but for now, I'm at least seeding white clover with the grass. It grows well and complements the grass (nitrogen-fixing clover with nitrogen -extracting grass).

Much better than constant fertilizing and watering! (Even if this kind of hot and dry summer isn't kind on any kind of plant.)

 

[Buster15]

We need to just bin the idea of the green grass lawn being essential to a household altogether. The disproportionate amount of air, water, and earth being wasted or abused relative to a lawn’s value to society is absurd.

I do understand that point, especially with climate change.
Nevertheless, we are fortunate enough to have a reasonable size back lawn.
And one of the pleasures of this is to provide feeding opportunities for birds especially.
And because it is normally green, it is taking in carbon and giving out oxygen.

You could make the same argument for trees and bushes as they use way way more water than grass, golf courses aside.

We are only sharing this planet with the wildlife and ecosystem. It is not ours.
Our atmosphere is because of photosynthesis. And manufacturing artificial grass from fossil fuels when we are trying to limit the effects of climate change is to my very simple mind totally at odds with what we claim we are trying to do.

 

[Frosty]

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Not climate change, but certainly a change to the climate.

 

[Buster15]

Apart from a small minority, we understand that man made climate change is the result of humanity pumping evermore greenhouse gases into our finite atmosphere.

But one question keeps popping into my head.
What is happening to all that heat that we are generating as well from either fossil or renewable sources.
The vast majority of the energy we consume is converted into heat. And that of course must include heat from friction and sound.
It has to remain as heat energy until it might be converted into another form.

So why is the heat we are busy generating not a source of temperature rise?

 

[McGrathsipan]

Apart from a small minority, we understand that man made climate change is the result of humanity pumping evermore greenhouse gases into our finite atmosphere.

But one question keeps popping into my head.
What is happening to all that heat that we are generating as well from either fossil or renewable sources.
The vast majority of the energy we consume is converted into heat. And that of course must include heat from friction and sound.
It has to remain as heat energy until it might be converted into another form.

So why is the heat we are busy generating not a source of temperature rise?

Apart from a small minority, we understand that man made climate change is the result of humanity pumping evermore greenhouse gases into our finite atmosphere.

But one question keeps popping into my head.
What is happening to all that heat that we are generating as well from either fossil or renewable sources.
The vast majority of the energy we consume is converted into heat. And that of course must include heat from friction and sound.
It has to remain as heat energy until it might be converted into another form.

So why is the heat we are busy generating not a source of temperature rise?

I can follow your gist but the sun has been heating the planet for ever.
What happens to that heat differently to generated heat energy
Heat is heat.
Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[BeltUp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61552315

I don't care how they try to package it, artificial grass is just a terrible thing for the natural world. I for one will never ever consider it.
Just more green coloured plastic pollution. The absolute last thing we need with man made climate change and the diminished wildlife.
Come on people. Do the right thing for a change.
If you can not be bothered with a lawn, plant ground cover.

It may make some differences but there are much bigger concerns though. For instance, the biggest cause of deforestation being animal agriculture. The easiest and biggest change people can make is making their diet as predominantly plant-based as possible but most people can't even be arsed doing that.

 

[Buster15]

I can follow your gist but the sun has been heating the planet for ever.
What happens to that heat differently to generated heat energy
Heat is heat.
Maybe I'm wrong.

And I too understand your point.
However, the sun's energy will heat our planet to a (broadly) average given temperature.

But what I am referring to is all of that additional heat humanity has been adding since the Industrial Revolution.
The laws of energy conservation say that energy will remain in one form (of energy) until it is converted into another form.

 

[Frosty]

Apart from a small minority, we understand that man made climate change is the result of humanity pumping evermore greenhouse gases into our finite atmosphere.

But one question keeps popping into my head.
What is happening to all that heat that we are generating as well from either fossil or renewable sources.
The vast majority of the energy we consume is converted into heat. And that of course must include heat from friction and sound.
It has to remain as heat energy until it might be converted into another form.

So why is the heat we are busy generating not a source of temperature rise?

Does this help re: human bodies?

https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/human-body-temperature-global-warming/

The Earth also sheds heat into space:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180924153430.htm

Sorry if I have misunderstood.

 

[Buster15]

It may make some differences but there are much bigger concerns though. For instance, the biggest cause of deforestation being animal agriculture. The easiest and biggest change people can make is making their diet as predominantly plant-based as possible but most people can't even be arsed doing that.

Yes.
I completely agree with you that artificial grass instead of natural grass is a 2nd order effect when compared to the really big issues.
All I am saying is that, knowing what we now know, why would any reasonable minded person have artificial grass.
Oh wait. I have just answered my own question.

 

[Buster15]

Does this help re: human bodies?

https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/human-body-temperature-global-warming/

The Earth also sheds heat into space:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180924153430.htm

Sorry if I have misunderstood.

Thank you matey.
And it looks like it is me who has misunderstood the science, not you.

 

[McGrathsipan]

And I too understand your point.
However, the sun's energy will heat our planet to a (broadly) average given temperature.

But what I am referring to is all of that additional heat humanity has been adding since the Industrial Revolution.
The laws of energy conservation say that energy will remain in one form (of energy) until it is converted into another form.

I worked in hyperscale data centers for years and Id go to the roof where all of the extract ducts vented the hot air to atmosphere.

Believe me on roof of a 50MW data centre there is alot of air handling units. Each one designed to suck the waste product from data halls.
The waste product is heat. Millions of cubic Mtrs of super heated air extracted every day. 24/7.

Where that data centre campus is there are 10 more over 3 sq miles.

Dumping untold amounts of waste heat to the sky.

It's Mind-boggling when you feel the power of it

 

[Frosty]

The Earth also loses 90 tonnes of its atmosphere into space every day too, along with heat: https://sciencenorway.no/space-space-research/why-doesnt-all-our-air-disappear-into-space/1870565

 

[Buster15]

I worked in hyperscale data centers for years and Id go to the roof where all of the extract ducts vented the hot air to atmosphere.

Believe me on roof of a 50MW data centre there is alot of air handling units. Each one designed to suck the waste product from data halls.
The waste product is heat. Millions of cubic Mtrs of super heated air extracted every day. 24/7.

Where that data centre campus is there are 10 more over 3 sq miles.

Dumping untold amounts of waste heat to the sky.

It's Mind-boggling when you feel the power of it

I can imagine.
I guess the answer is that man-made heat output is nothing like as significant as man made greenhouse gas output.

 

[Buster15]

The Earth also loses 90 tonnes of its atmosphere into space every day too, along with heat: https://sciencenorway.no/space-space-research/why-doesnt-all-our-air-disappear-into-space/1870565

Goodness me.
Every day I know less about more.

 

[nimic]

Goodness me.
Every day I know less about more.

It sounds like a lot, but it's basically nothing. It's an interesting fact, though!

Also helps explain why Mars has such a thin atmosphere. It just blew away (almost literally, solar wind contributed a lot to it).

 

[Frosty]

It sounds like a lot, but it's basically nothing. It's an interesting fact, though!

Also helps explain why Mars has such a thin atmosphere. It just blew away (almost literally, solar wind contributed a lot to it).

Yes. I think I read the atmosphere would take billions of years to dissipate, whereas multicelluar life has around 700 million years left before the Sun makes it extinct. Kind of weird knowing humanity came to be only in the last fifth of life's existence on Earth.

 

[SalfordRed18]

When's the last time it rained?

 

[RedTiger]

When's the last time it rained?

For Bournemouth, I'd say probably two to three weeks ago.

 

[tomaldinho1]

When's the last time it rained?

South London, we had a light shower that lasted an hour about two weeks ago. Some of the tarmac driveways on our road have cracked in the heat, not known prolonged extreme heat like this before.

 

[nimic]

When's the last time it rained?

This is officially the most British climate change thread ever.

 

[SalfordRed18]

For Bournemouth, I'd say probably two to three weeks ago.

Grim

South London, we had a light shower that lasted an hour about two weeks ago. Some of the tarmac driveways on our road have cracked in the heat, not known prolonged extreme heat like this before.

Country isn't built for weather like this at all.

This is officially the most British climate change thread ever.

Cool.

 

[nimic]

Cool.

I wish.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Isn't the UK trending wetter since the mid 20th century? Making this an anomaly

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Isn't the UK trending wetter since the mid 20th century? Making this an anomaly

I think we get warmer, wetter winters and warmer drier summers with an increase in extreme weather events in all areas (cold/wet/hot/dry). I think the wetter winters outweigh the drier summers so we get wetter on average. This is a half baked recollection so I might be talking nonsense.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I think we get warmer, wetter winters and warmer drier summers with an increase in extreme weather events in all areas (cold/wet/hot/dry). I think the wetter winters outweigh the drier summers so we get wetter on average. This is a half baked recollection so I might be talking nonsense.

Yeah you’re right. More rain and less spread through the year + longer more extreme summers. If you don’t have subsidence insurance on your house, get it yesterday.

 

[neverdie]

Pre-industrial civilizations were dependent on the limits of solar energy and constrained by roads and waterways, impediments that were obliterated when fossil fuel became an energy source. As industrial empires became global, their increase in size meant an increase in complexity. Ironically, this complexity makes us more vulnerable to catastrophic collapse, not less. Soaring temperatures (Iraq is enduring 120 degree heat that has fried the country’s electrical grid), the depletion of natural resources, flooding, droughts, (the worst drought in 500 years is devastating Western, Central and Southern Europe and is expected to see a decline in crop yields of 8 or 9 percent), power outages, wars, pandemics, a rise in zoonotic diseases and breakdowns in supply chains combine to shake the foundations of industrial society. The Arctic has been heating up four times faster than the global average, resulting in an accelerated melting of the Greenland ice sheet and freakish weather patterns. The Barents Sea north of Norway and Russia are warming up to seven times faster. Climate scientists did not expect this extreme weather until 2050.

“Each time history repeats itself, the price goes up,” the anthropologist Ronald Wright warns, calling industrial society “a suicide machine.”

In A Short History of Progress, he writes:

Civilization is an experiment, a very recent way of life in the human career, and it has a habit of walking into what I am calling progress traps. A small village on good land beside a river is a good idea; but when the village grows into a city and paves over the good land, it becomes a bad idea. While prevention might have been easy, a cure may be impossible: a city isn’t easily moved. This human inability to foresee — or to watch out for — long-range consequences may be inherent to our kind, shaped by the millions of years when we lived from hand to mouth by hunting and gathering. It may also be little more than a mix of inertia, greed, and foolishness encouraged by the shape of the social pyramid. The concentration of power at the top of large-scale societies gives the elite a vested interest in the status quo; they continue to prosper in darkening times long after the environment and general populace begin to suffer.

Wright also reflects upon what will be left behind:

The archaeologists who dig us up will need to wear hazmat suits. Humankind will leave a telltale layer in the fossil record composed of everything we produce, from mounds of chicken bones, wet-wipes, tires, mattresses and other household waste to metals, concrete, plastics, industrial chemicals, and the nuclear residue of power plants and weaponry. We are cheating our children, handing them tawdry luxuries and addictive gadgets while we take away what’s left of the wealth, wonder and possibility of the pristine Earth.
Calculations of humanity’s footprint suggest we have been in ‘ecological deficit,’ taking more than Earth’s biological systems can withstand, for at least 30 years. Topsoil is being lost far faster than nature can replenish it; 30 percent of arable land has been exhausted since the mid-20th century.
We have financed this monstrous debt by colonizing both past and future, drawing energy, chemical fertilizer and pesticides from the planet’s fossil carbon, and throwing the consequences onto coming generations of our species and all others. Some of those species have already been bankrupted: they are extinct. Others will follow.

As Cahokia declined, violence dramatically increased. Surrounding towns were burned to the ground. Groups, numbering in the hundreds, were slaughtered and buried in mass graves. At the end, “the enemy killed all people indiscriminately. The intent was not merely prestige, but an early form of ethnic cleansing” writes anthropologist Timothy R. Pauketat, in Ancient Cahokia and the Mississippians. He notes that, in one fifteenth-century cemetery in central Illinois, one-third of all adults had been killed by blows to the head, arrow wounds or scalping. Many showed evidence of fractures on their arms from vain attempts to fight off their attackers.

Such descent into internecine violence is compounded by a weakened and discredited central authority. In the later stages of Cahokia, the ruling class surrounded themselves with fortified wooden stockades, including a two-mile long wall that enclosed Monks Mound. Similar fortifications dotted the vast territory the Cahokia controlled, segregating gated communities where the wealthy and powerful, protected by armed guards, sought safety from the increasing lawlessness and hoarded dwindling food supplies and resources.

Overcrowding inside these stockades saw the spread of tuberculosis and blastomycosis, caused by a soil-borne fungus, along with iron deficiency anemia. Infant mortality rates rose, and life spans declined, a result of social disintegration, poor diet and disease.

By the 1400s Cahokia had been abandoned. In 1541, when Hernando de Soto’s invading army descended on what is today Missouri, looking for gold, nothing but the great mounds remained, relics of a forgotten past.

This time the collapse will be global. It will not be possible, as in ancient societies, to migrate to new ecosystems rich in natural resources. The steady rise in heat will devastate crop yields and make much of the planet uninhabitable. Climate scientists warn that once temperatures rise by 4℃, the earth, at best, will be able to sustain a billion people.

The more insurmountable the crisis becomes, the more we, like our prehistoric ancestors, will retreat into self-defeating responses, violence, magical thinking and denial.

The historian Arnold Toynbee, who singled out unchecked militarism as the fatal blow to past empires, argued that civilizations are not murdered, but commit suicide. They fail to adapt to a crisis, ensuring their own obliteration. Our civilization’s collapse will be unique in size, magnified by the destructive force of our fossil fuel-driven industrial society. But it will replicate the familiar patterns of collapse that toppled civilizations of the past. The difference will be in scale, and this time there will be no exit.

full article https://scheerpost.com/2022/08/15/c...to-collapse-but-we-will-probably-be-the-last/

 

[Jericholyte2]

full article https://scheerpost.com/2022/08/15/c...to-collapse-but-we-will-probably-be-the-last/

Sweet Jesus

 

[neverdie]

Sweet Jesus

the alternative is to stop spending trillions on global military budgets and move to clean energy generation on a mass accelerated scale. it's called "suicide" because it isn't inevitable. the means of changing the productive mode already exist. anyone not offering an economic plan centred around zero emissions and carbon capture should be disqualified from public affairs. not only killing themselves but killing everyone else, too.

 

[Jericholyte2]

the alternative is to stop spending trillions on global military budgets and move to clean energy generation on a mass accelerated scale. it's called "suicide" because it isn't inevitable. the means of changing the productive mode already exist. anyone not offering an economic plan centred around zero emissions and carbon capture should be disqualified from public affairs. not only killing themselves but killing everyone else, too.

In complete agreement, it's just so horrifically grim and short-sighted we (as a global population) are to this. We really should be marching the streets.

 

[Frosty]

the alternative is to stop spending trillions on global military budgets and move to clean energy generation on a mass accelerated scale. it's called "suicide" because it isn't inevitable. the means of changing the productive mode already exist. anyone not offering an economic plan centred around zero emissions and carbon capture should be disqualified from public affairs. not only killing themselves but killing everyone else, too.

Considering that money and economics are completely artifical human inventions there really is no reason to not do what you outline here.

 

[neverdie]

In complete agreement, it's just so horrifically grim and short-sighted we (as a global population) are to this. We really should be marching the streets.

Considering that money and economics are completely artifical human inventions there really is no reason to not do what you outline here.

there is only one "war" this generation faces but so far there has been no war-like alteration in the means of production to meet the challenge. you could retrofit industrial capacity to construct everything needed to make the transformation within years. i'd argue in favour of a wartime economy if you project it over four years, or maybe five, and begin a mass industrial works program. short of that, we're probably all fecked. would also have the benefit of housing, to a clean standard, transport, to a clean standard, and a lot of jobs centred around clean re-industrialization.

has to be state mandated with sunset clauses on state authority. the private sector is too disjointed and self-interested to accomplish it. they'll make progress in isolated periods and spots, but they're competing against each other. that's the exact opposite of what needs to be happening, not to mention the profit motive which will undermine the basic premise. you can profit from the new economy, but you cannot do it until the base actually exists. and we're half a decade away from that if we enact emergency provisions.

not green new deal but renew deal.

 

[calodo2003]

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[TheLiverBird]

And yet some bloke down the Red Lion called Jeff will have you believe it’s all a lie, that the climate goes in cycles we’ll all be alright because 1 expert scientist says otherwise, completely ignoring the many many many thousands of scientific experts that say we are heading for a disaster

with how much information there is out there, it truly baffles me there are still so many Jeffs from the Red Lion out there still thick as pig shit on the matter having blatantly done zero research other than watch a conspiracy theorist video some Moron posted on social media

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

I actually think it's already here and we are fecked. Everyone talking about the changes will be here in a decade and we have to act now etc.

Looking at things, I think it's here and the next 24 months are going to rapidly accelerate to a point of crisis. Lack of water, Northern European droughts, ecology collapse over summer, food shortages etc.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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They need to science the shit out of this to find a solution. My suggestion to get the ball rolling would be to stop using fecking dinosaur units like Fahrenheit. Baby steps.