Club ownership | Senior management team talk

[TrailMonkey]

It feels like we're the constituents having to put up with a new Government who came into power with a bright new manifesto only to find they're hamstrung by the previous Government, ie the Treasury have left them in the shit with all their BS deals and contracts.

 

[48 hours]

It feels like we're the constituents having to put up with a new Government who came into power with a bright new manifesto only to find they're hamstrung by the previous Government, ie the Treasury have left them in the shit with all their BS deals and contracts.

It’s our luck to be owned by 2 sets of billionaires.

One lot don’t want to actually use any of their own money on the club.

The other seems to fail whenever they touch a football club

 

[oreon]

It feels like we're the constituents having to put up with a new Government who came into power with a bright new manifesto only to find they're hamstrung by the previous Government, ie the Treasury have left them in the shit with all their BS deals and contracts.

In this analogy the new government is actually in a power sharing agreement with the old goverment, to keep the old government in power. And constituents are surprised its same old same old

INEOS should not get a pass. They bailed the Glazers from a situation where the Glazers might have been forced to sale. And when they came in they knew finances were bad. This club needed investments, if INEOS weren't capable to do that or unwilling to do that without full ownership they should never bought a minority stake.

Maybe they can bring back UTD to glory days cheaply but its unlikely. It's gonna take a lot money. If they can't pour that money in, leave and put the pressure back on the Glazers. We knew the Glazers won't invest. So the Glazers could either watch the value of club to plummet or sale

 

[croadyman]

In this analogy the new government is actually in a power sharing agreement with the old goverment, to keep the old government in power. And constituents are surprised its same old same old

INEOS should not get a pass. They bailed the Glazers from a situation where the Glazers might have been forced to sale. And when they came in they knew finances were bad. This club needed investments, if INEOS weren't capable to do that or unwilling to do that without full ownership they should never bought a minority stake.

Maybe they can bring back UTD to glory days cheaply but its unlikely. It's gonna take a lot money. If they can't pour that money in, leave and put the pressure back on the Glazers. We knew the Glazers won't invest. So the Glazers could either watch the value of club to plummet or sale

Absolutely nailed it with the second paragraph

 

[RedRoach]

Those saying the financial situation took INEOS by surprise. This is utter, utter nonsense from INEOS. The process to find a new investor in the club took well over a year, during that time interested parties were given ample time to undertake due diligence and analysis of the clubs finances. It was clear as day then that the football side required investment and investment had already been made in players who had proven nothing that they were of the required standard.

We are in the dire situation we are in because of the debt loaded onto the club by the Glazers and for years and years of mismanagement. This mismanagement has simply continued with INEOS joining and making bizarre decision after the other. £15 million pounds was wasted firing Ten Hag too late and firing Ashworth early after waiting so long with him of friggin gardening leave. £15 million! Meanwhile the tea lady and various other folks were sacked to reduce the overall wage bill including all the scouts. Now we have leaks coming in they are hiring again in some the same departments.

These people have no idea what the hell they are doing. We finished 15th. 15th! We were told about a clear plan for the summer with regards to recruitment. And now crickets. We have a very, very tough season coming up and I don't see how with the recruitment so far we will even make top 10 to be honest.

 

[romufc]

£30 million pounds was wasted firing Ten Hag too late and firing Ashworth early after waiting so long with him of friggin gardening leave. £30 million!

Whilst I too am frustrated at the way the club has been run... you dont need to inflate numbers to make your point.

Where have you got this number from?

 

[RedRoach]

Whilst I too am frustrated at the way the club has been run... you dont need to inflate numbers to make your point.

Where have you got this number from?

Double checked ok it was £14.5million for both. My bad. Read somewhere that it was 20m for Hag and stand corrected.

Remaining content of the post stands.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Those saying the financial situation took INEOS by surprise. This is utter, utter nonsense from INEOS. The process to find a new investor in the club took well over a year, during that time interested parties were given ample time to undertake due diligence and analysis of the clubs finances. It was clear as day then that the football side required investment and investment had already been made in players who had proven nothing that they were of the required standard.

We are in the dire situation we are in because of the debt loaded onto the club by the Glazers and for years and years of mismanagement. This mismanagement has simply continued with INEOS joining and making bizarre decision after the other. £30 million pounds was wasted firing Ten Hag too late and firing Ashworth early after waiting so long with him of friggin gardening leave. £30 million! Meanwhile the tea lady and various other folks were sacked to reduce the overall wage bill including all the scouts. Now we have leaks coming in they are hiring again in the some the same departments.

These people have no idea what the hell they are doing. We finished 15th. 15th! We were told about a clear plan for the summer with regards to recruitment. And now crickets. We have a very, very tough season coming up and I don't see how with the recruitment so far we will even make top 10 to be honest.

I think the reality is they did not foresee how poorly we would do, there's absolutely no way they thought it likely we finish outside of the Europa Conference places and definitely not as low as we did in the league. To give you an idea, had we finished 8th we would have £15m+ more prize money and another £5m or so from the ECL, that's £20m additional pure profit to play with. I think they will be uber aggressive with replacing him this season if Amorim continues to struggle, they will need to be.

 

[romufc]

Double checked ok it was £14.5million for both. My bad. Read somewhere that it was 20m for Hag and stand corrected.

Remaining content of the post stands.

Like I said... I agree with some of your post, they would have known the issues the club has, a financial review was carried out before they bought it.

We are going to have a tough season in which the manager probably gets sacked. They are playing a blinder really.

If you see from the Amorim thread, the knives are out, as soon as we start poorly... the theory wont be "INEOS fault" or "Letting the manager down"

it will be Amorim out because he is persisting with a 3-4-4, so INEOS know they are shieded.

 

[Andycoleno9]

INEOS should not get a pass. They bailed the Glazers from a situation where the Glazers might have been forced to sale. And when they came in they knew finances were bad. This club needed investments, if INEOS weren't capable to do that or unwilling to do that without full ownership they should never bought a minority stake.

This part is something which most of people refuse to accept and understand.

 

[AFIABM]

It was never in United's best interest to have a deal where the Glazers stayed.

Why the fan base was so happy with Ineos taking over therefore is beyond me.

INEOS should not get a pass. They bailed the Glazers from a situation where the Glazers might have been forced to sale. And when they came in they knew finances were bad. This club needed investments, if INEOS weren't capable to do that or unwilling to do that without full ownership they should never bought a minority stake.

Maybe they can bring back UTD to glory days cheaply but its unlikely. It's gonna take a lot money. If they can't pour that money in, leave and put the pressure back on the Glazers. We knew the Glazers won't invest. So the Glazers could either watch the value of club to plummet or sale

Exactly, they have enabled the key issue (the Glazers) that commenters are using as an excuse to absolve them.

It makes no sense and they may well have consigned us to operating below the Champions League spots because of this and their current approach

 

[romufc]

Haven't you ignored the point the poster made that the scouts have identified talents, only to be ignored?

So do you think without these scouts we wont be able to identify targets?

Under INEOS the one good thing we seem to be doing is getting young talent... Chido, Kone, Heaven and more incoming this summer..

I guess you didn't need those scouts when you can sign players without them.

The world of football is moving, its a more data based approach, which is used at most clubs now.

 

[G-manc]

Apart from the initial cash injection to give the lifeline for the Glazers, why would INEOS put any more money? It just does not make any financial sense for them as they own 25%.

We would want them to do so, but it just doesn’t make any sense.

INEOS need either buy the rest of the club or sell their shares, the Glazers will not put any more money and will rely on turning the club around within the club’s own revenue. This will ofcourse take much longer and may never work if we are always playing catch-up.

Then don’t get involved in the first place.

Working alongside the existing owners who won’t invest either and making cuts and trying to do things on the cheap just continues the issues we already have.

He supposed to be a fan.

 

[Godfather]

Then don’t get involved in the first place.

Working alongside the existing owners who won’t invest either and making cuts and trying to do things on the cheap just continues the issues we already have.

He supposed to be a fan.

INEOS will hope to acquire majority shares in the near future. My biggest hope is that Ratcliffe might want to see us become successful again in his life time so he will push to get Glazers out.
The current ownership structure is of course a fecking shambles

 

[G-manc]

INEOS will hope to acquire majority shares in the near future. My biggest hope is that Ratcliffe might want to see us become successful again in his life time so he will push to get Glazers out.
The current ownership structure is of course a fecking shambles

There’s been no reported path to full ownership and there’s not a chance the Glazers will sell whilst the new stadium is on the table, which ironically, is only possible with Jim on board.

 

[AFIABM]

So do you think without these scouts we wont be able to identify targets?

Under INEOS the one good thing we seem to be doing is getting young talent... Chido, Kone, Heaven and more incoming this summer..

I guess you didn't need those scouts when you can sign players without them.

The world of football is moving, its a more data based approach, which is used at most clubs now.

I agree data is important, it's just that the blame for poor signings may not be with our scouts (who identified Caicedo, Amad and Hannibal for example, and cautioned against some poor signings we ended up making) but with the team making the decisions higher up, who may be ignoring scouts or poorly interpreting data.

For example we don't know know if Ugarte was a scout led signing or a data led signing. Ole said he tried to sign Haaland but was ignored. We couldn't convince Bellingham to sign when his competition would have been McTominay and Fred.

 

[AneRu]

Like I said... I agree with some of your post, they would have known the issues the club has, a financial review was carried out before they bought it.

We are going to have a tough season in which the manager probably gets sacked. They are playing a blinder really.

If you see from the Amorim thread, the knives are out, as soon as we start poorly... the theory wont be "INEOS fault" or "Letting the manager down"

it will be Amorim out because he is persisting with a 3-4-4, so INEOS know they are shieded.

Amorim is toast, he has lost a lot of goodwill mainly because of results, partly the formation and partly the residual bitterness from fanboys who saw their favorite chucked out unceremoniously. A poor start to the season and he is gone.

The bigger questions ought to be reserved for Ratcliffe and Berrada. Why hire a systems coach when you don't have a squad built to his needs and don't have the funds to fund a squad rebuild that shapes the squad to his liking? If he fails, and it looks like he will, that's a year of development lost which makes the way back a lot harder than it was when we sacked Ten Hag.

Ashworth was right and these lot were idiots for not listening to him. We needed a PL veteran, who can win ugly and earn the club prize money (through better league finishes) at minimal cost whilst the executive team worked on repairing the finances and the squad in the background.

We go into a summer where we desperately needed reinforcements but are stuck at the second one. If Mbeumo is a no go then change course and actually bring players that can help the team. Amad did well as a R10, so just pivot to Osimhen and bring goals into the team. Why be so fixated on a player who you clearly can't afford and ruin all the summer plans on that one signing?

 

[croadyman]

There’s been no reported path to full ownership and there’s not a chance the Glazers will sell whilst the new stadium is on the table, which ironically, is only possible with Jim on board.

Yeah that's exactly why we should be worried, despite soundbites about a supposed route to majority ownership I don't believe a word of it

 

[Coops73]

Yeah that's exactly why we should be worried, despite soundbites about a supposed route to majority ownership I don't believe a word of it

Yeah, I’ve asked this question several times but isn’t there something about Ratcliffe putting up the money in August or the cnuts selling to the highest bidder and him having to put up or shut up?

 

[croadyman]

Amorim is toast, he has lost a lot of goodwill mainly because of results, partly the formation and partly the residual bitterness from fanboys who saw their favorite chucked out unceremoniously. A poor start to the season and he is gone.

The bigger questions ought to be reserved for Ratcliffe and Berrada. Why hire a systems coach when you don't have a squad built to his needs and don't have the funds to fund a squad rebuild that shapes the squad to his liking? If he fails, and it looks like he will, that's a year of development lost which makes the way back a lot harder than it was when we sacked Ten Hag.

Ashworth was right and these lot were idiots for not listening to him. We needed a PL veteran, who can win ugly and earn the club prize money (through better league finishes) at minimal cost whilst the executive team worked on repairing the finances and the squad in the background.

We go into a summer where we desperately needed reinforcements but are stuck at the second one. If Mbeumo is a no go then change course and actually bring players that can help the team. Amad did well as a R10, so just pivot to Osimhen and bring goals into the team. Why be so fixated on a player who you clearly can't afford and ruin all the summer plans on that one signing?

Fantastic post, pity the club didn't listen

 

[AFIABM]

Amorim is toast, he has lost a lot of goodwill mainly because of results, partly the formation and partly the residual bitterness from fanboys who saw their favorite chucked out unceremoniously. A poor start to the season and he is gone.

The bigger questions ought to be reserved for Ratcliffe and Berrada. Why hire a systems coach when you don't have a squad built to his needs and don't have the funds to fund a squad rebuild that shapes the squad to his liking? If he fails, and it looks like he will, that's a year of development lost which makes the way back a lot harder than it was when we sacked Ten Hag.

Ashworth was right and these lot were idiots for not listening to him. We needed a PL veteran, who can win ugly and earn the club prize money (through better league finishes) at minimal cost whilst the executive team worked on repairing the finances and the squad in the background.

We go into a summer where we desperately needed reinforcements but are stuck at the second one. If Mbeumo is a no go then change course and actually bring players that can help the team. Amad did well as a R10, so just pivot to Osimhen and bring goals into the team. Why be so fixated on a player who you clearly can't afford and ruin all the summer plans on that one signing?

And rejected a get out of jail card when the opportunity arose to cash in on a near 31 year old Bruno and rebuild the club's midfield and attack in a single summer.

The club never learns, the people in charge repeat the mistakes, the fanbase jump on any realism as negativity then rue it later on.

 

[Pickle85]

And rejected a get out of jail card when the opportunity arose to cash in on a near 31 year old Bruno and rebuild the club's midfield and attack in a single summer.

The club never learns, the people in charge repeat the mistakes, the fanbase jump on any realism as negativity then rue it later on.

Selling your best player is not a get out of jail card.

 

[croadyman]

Yeah, I’ve asked this question several times but isn’t there something about Ratcliffe putting up the money in August or the cnuts selling to the highest bidder and him having to put up or shut up?

Yeah there was something about that when his minority takeover (shudders) was announced in Dec 2023. Mind you it seems to have gone completely quiet on the matter since

 

[TrueRed79]

They said they were prepared for all scenarios this summer. CL qualification, or not etc. They have shown so far that they a bit clueless in a lot of matters. The only good thing they have done is put a proper structure in place regarding the management of the club. The rest? A complete shambles so far. Am not impressed, especially after how last season went. We have a weird way if dealing with players that are surplus to requirements as well. I really, really don't understand our approach to this matter. It's bizarre.

 

[Red in STL]

And rejected a get out of jail card when the opportunity arose to cash in on a near 31 year old Bruno and rebuild the club's midfield and attack in a single summer.

The club never learns, the people in charge repeat the mistakes, the fanbase jump on any realism as negativity then rue it later on.

I see you're ignoring the fact that Bruno had no interest in going to Saudi, if the club had the ability to force him to do that how come Rashford, Sancho et al are still here?

 

[Matt851]

Amorim is toast, he has lost a lot of goodwill mainly because of results, partly the formation and partly the residual bitterness from fanboys who saw their favorite chucked out unceremoniously. A poor start to the season and he is gone.

The bigger questions ought to be reserved for Ratcliffe and Berrada. Why hire a systems coach when you don't have a squad built to his needs and don't have the funds to fund a squad rebuild that shapes the squad to his liking? If he fails, and it looks like he will, that's a year of development lost which makes the way back a lot harder than it was when we sacked Ten Hag.

Ashworth was right and these lot were idiots for not listening to him. We needed a PL veteran, who can win ugly and earn the club prize money (through better league finishes) at minimal cost whilst the executive team worked on repairing the finances and the squad in the background.

We go into a summer where we desperately needed reinforcements but are stuck at the second one. If Mbeumo is a no go then change course and actually bring players that can help the team. Amad did well as a R10, so just pivot to Osimhen and bring goals into the team. Why be so fixated on a player who you clearly can't afford and ruin all the summer plans on that one signing?

It is utterly shambolic they didn't realise that he might struggle to adapt, and that he would need significant funds to make his system work. Berrada has just chased a shiny toy in typical Ed woodward fashion.

If we got someone willing to adapt to the players we have we could won the europa and at least been mid table. This would have allowed us to get through this tricky period when we need to offload lots of high earners without dropping off too badly

As it is they have made a massive mess of things and it's all to easy to see amorim being gone by Christmas

 

[Matt851]

I see you're ignoring the fact that Bruno had no interest in going to Saudi, if the club had the ability to force him to do that how come Rashford, Sancho et al are still here?

It's not really a meaningful comparison. The club rejected the Bruno offer he might have changed his mind if they accepted and the Saudis were willing to offer him huge wages

The rest are here because no one wants to oay the fee we want or the wages the players want

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Got to admit I was super sceptical about INEOS before their partial takeover but they’ve turned out to be much worse than than I thought they would be.

At this point next season is almost a write off and we’re only in July.

 

[AndrewMac]

No surprise. We were warned they would be cheap and awful before they joined.

 

[The Firestarter]

It's not really a meaningful comparison. The club rejected the Bruno offer he might have changed his mind if they accepted and the Saudis were willing to offer him huge wages

The rest are here because no one wants to oay the fee we want or the wages the players want

They first asked him and he said no.

 

[Castia]

It’s really hitting home how fecked this club is. Not sure how we get back to the top or if it’s even possible from this point the club has been destroyed through pure negligence.

 

[croadyman]

Got to admit I was super sceptical about INEOS before their partial takeover but they’ve turned out to be much worse than than I thought they would be.

At this point next season is almost a write off and we’re only in July.

There was so many red flags with them which started by what Nice and Lausanne fans said about how badly they run clubs. They then lost me completely by keeping Ten Hag due to fan sentiment, even more baffling was waiting it out for proper DOF in Ashworth then sacking him a couple of months later. Utterly ridiculous they thought Wilcox should move into the role and not recruit someone experienced like Berta or Campos.

 

[holdsteady]

United are broke. The Glazers did it. There was no reason to waste 45m on fecking off the manager and DoF and bring in a new team, especially when the Director of Football wanted to play it slow. Certainly not at the cost of how many jobs. INEOS are scum and stupid as well.

 

[croadyman]

United are broke. The Glazers did it. There was no reason to waste 45m on fecking off the manager and DoF and bring in a new team, especially when the Director of Football wanted to play it slow. Certainly not at the cost of how many jobs. INEOS are scum and stupid as well.

Yeah no truer words

 

[Red in STL]

It's not really a meaningful comparison. The club rejected the Bruno offer he might have changed his mind if they accepted and the Saudis were willing to offer him huge wages

The rest are here because no one wants to oay the fee we want or the wages the players want

Nope - Bruno made it clear he wasn't interested before United rejected the offer

 

[croadyman]

It’s really hitting home how fecked this club is. Not sure how we get back to the top or if it’s even possible from this point the club has been destroyed through pure negligence.

Yeah it's grim times to say the least, feels like it will take someone richer than Ratcliffe (struggling to think of anyone) or state nation to clear these leeches debt.

 

[Kopral Jono]

The impression I get, at this point, is that they're just waiting for a miracle to happen with Amorim; that we'll go on to have a freakishly good season where everything falls into place. Tied hands from disastrous Europa final loss aside I can't -- for the love of everything holy -- fathom the logic behind the way they're operating right now with transfers.

 

[croadyman]

The impression I get, at this point, is that they're just waiting for a miracle to happen with Amorim; that we'll go on to have a freakishly good season where everything falls into place. Tied hands from disastrous Europa final loss aside I can't -- for the love of everything holy -- fathom the logic behind the way they're operating right now with transfers.

Well we need to finish in Europa places otherwise there won't be a significant difference to budget next summer

 

[Kopral Jono]

Well we need to finish in Europa places otherwise there won't be a significant difference to budget next summer

Precisely why I think right now Ineos are on inshallah mode: no budget to speak of, can't flog our wantaways, just nothing -- only way for us to jumpstart our rebuild is to have a freakishly good season and finish somewhere in the top six. But this is looking incredibly unlikely by the day given that everyone else is making reinforcements.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I have zero hope in us ever contending under Ineos.

They've just consistently made poor decisions on a scattergun approach.

They have no plan.