Leverkusen is the perfect example of how to treat the wrong manager choice. They look a proper team again after looking absolutely horrid under EtH. They didn't feck around. We do. Always. Even more so now than under Ed which is an extremely worrying sign
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
Amorim would have been sacked 4 times by now, by any top club. Best in class my ass.
It is the easiest season to get a top 4 finish and the club is wasting it on Amorim.
They can all feck off. Like we are run by a bunch of drunk monkeys. Maybe they can hire Ashworth again to help. And these bunch are still here... Look at them, every single one probably goes out with a paper and adress of a home written so they can come back.
United is like Disneyland? Klopp probably went out thinking, ok, this was feckin weird.
Poor dog.
United is like Disneyland? Klopp probably went out thinking, ok, this was feckin weird.
Poor dog.
Boo fecking hoo! Welcome to the real world.
Yup, getting a manger right now would also get us top 4, its clear case of just optimally using our players rather than a quality issue. The quality issue seems to be with decision makers and the managers. I think wilcox probably fears for his own job, hence doesnt want to sack amorim. Same for berrerda , its like all the idiots came together to feck us over.
Are people just gonna post the same link until others post something like "aw bless the multi millionaire ex footballers are so separate from the reality of match going fans, they rely on getting help from the club to get tickets for matches when pretty every much every game is on sale for members two days before."
I'd have sympathy if they'd used their influence years ago when ticket prices started going up or when the Glazers cancelled already paid for tickets because a fan was 5 minutes late paying for a cup game.
Leverkusen were the 2nd best team in Germany so a quick reset was a relatively simple thing to do to get back to a point of relative success. Very different situation for us.
22/23 14 games since LC final 1.86 ppg
23/24 full EPL 1.58 ppg
24/25 full EPL 1.11 ppg
25/26 12 games 1.5ppg
102 games since LC 1.43 ppg
If we start at first season under Ineos.
88 games in EPL 1.37 ppg.
Middle table form
I swear INEOS has done nothing but gaslighting us, the supporters. Forcing us to accept mediocrity in the name of long term success to the point some would take relegation as they believe that a mean of getting back to the top.
This is the kind of people that i have in my mind when i talk about how ineos have succeed gaslighting us supporters to some great extend that some people dont really mind if we finish 15th again because of well duh "LONG TERM SUCCESS".
Seriously even long term success need a short term result for people to believe in. Fergie took us from 19th to finish 11th when he took over, and then in his first full season he managed to take us 2nd on the table. You think Amorim can take us to finish 2nd by the end of season? Otherwise You dont seriously believe that if Amorim finished 10th for 2 seasons in a row we would win the league by the end of 3rd season do you?
Did you actually read anything I posted? It appears posting anything that isn't "death to Amorim" is basically the same as saying he should get 10 years regardless of what happens on the pitch. And I'll repeat, I'm no fan of the guy but the wider issues are too complicated for this to all be on him.
I'll say it again. Give him until the end of January. If we're 10th and miles off the European spots (by whatever low bar this is, European qualification would be progress) then sack him with a short term and long term goal in mind about what comes next.
If he can get us in the top 7 alongside an FA Cup (big if, I know) then revaluate again in the summer about whether he is the man to make the next step of Champions League football and maybe a title push, ultimately similar to what Chelsea did with Pochettino.
As long as Old Trafford remains full every week nothing will change. We're stuck in mediocrity and we're not getting out of it.
8 of their starters yesterday weren't part of the team last season. They lost most of the players and the manager who made them the 2nd best team in Germany. There's no way that if United were in the same situation, the fans and the board would've seen the reset as a relatively simple thing to do. Leverkusen made a huge mistake hiring Ten Hag, and it required a significant decision and humility to get rid of him and not waste the new players they had invested in. United hasn't had anyone capable of making this type of decision in the last 12 years.
Bang on the money
Nah, they will earn more money with champions league football
They'll just rebaseline for midtable performance and make more 'economies' around the club and the squad. High earners will go out and be replaced by cheaper replacements etc.
The thing that gets managers sacked at United is when large parts of the ground start to look empty from around 60/70 minutes. United fans don't tend to turn on managers but they just give up on the team. The image of that isn't seen as a positive in how the club markets itself to commercial partners.
While over 75,000 turn up every week the club will Ostrich this situation.
Couldn't agree more. Instead we would say patience is needed and we must suffer before things can possibly get good and maybe the signings are rubbish, not the coach.
We're expected to suffer more than if we've seen a clown on a bike and heard a gravelly voice say: 'I wanna play a game.'
Are we run by Jim Ratcliffe or Jigsaw?
I disagree about failure again if we change manager. Continuing with Amorim is not in the best interests of the club - he doesn't have the ability to achieve a top half table finish IMO. His system - his only system - isn't good enough for the PL and we don't have the players to support it. Next season would be his last under contract - does he justify another? No! He will need 2 WBs and 2 x CM for his system and then it might still fail.
The club will save money by sacking him and his staff now and appointing a manager who is out of contract soon (Ireola/Glasner) and utilising the squad we have, in their best positions, and building around a proven set of formations that work in the PL. Both of those managers have shown this over the last few seasons.
We keep telling ourselves the squad is weak, but if you look at is as a 433 for example, then there is bags of quality in it. We have good FBs but they aren't WBs. We have good wide players who were some of the best players in the PL last season. We have a very good CF who is starved of the ball under Amorim. We have one of the best #10 in the world who is being used as a midfield anchor and struggling. Amorim isn't the answer with this squad and this season has shown this already. We are very fortunate to be where we are now.
It's also a bit early to lay judgement on them after one game of beating City. They're 3rd in the league, almost on par with 6-8 teams for the champions league spots so one could also argue they've sort of moved sideways and got a lot of money along the way. This could also just be a fluke result.
It's still early days to put a verdict on them if you ask me. But at least hiring Hjulmand, is a promising start if he can make them play like he did with Denmark in his first couple of years. The last couple 1-2 years were "meh" where the energy kind of faded. Would be a bit miraculous to have 2 periods of Alonso-like performance in such a short term for a team like Leverkusen.
Yup. And when people at the club make mistakes now, rather than hold their hands up, they’d rather sink the club in the hope “their guy” will turn things around.
Nothing but self-serving interest that makes me think we have a number of bad faith actors at the club doing anything to protect themselves, club be damned.
INEOS have not even proven themselves to be par with the dross that was; we’re net negative worse than ever with them at the helm and there seems to ge no sign of that abating.
That's true, and they took a bit of a risk with a manager who has little experience at this level. The point is that they did it and didn't double down with Ten Hag while giving him carte blanche to waste the club's resources.
Ratcliffe is a big time bluffer and Amorim is doing more harm than good.
All true.
Its remarkable to watch this play out. Its like Ted Lasso in real life. Although the management team in Ted Lasso is probably more likeable.
Sickening feeling right now. This ain't going to get better and they are so self-absorbed that they won't act to fix it.
Not convinced, why does it not work only in Manchester to sign a manager in the middle of the season, the only explanation is we hire dire managers.
I want Amorim to do well but feck me im tired. I dont see any progress nor long term plan. I want the Glazers, Ineos and Amorim gone. I also want feck a few players out.
I try to blot it out because as a lingering thought it makes the surface level stuff all the more bleak, but when the times come around for them to prove their worth they always take the wrong turn at the forks in the road for me.
I see nothing from them that will advance us and it’s really concerning especially when you know they’re scurrying around trying to save face or not admit culpability and to try and undo their mistakes - they’d rather compound them than just hold a hand up and endeavour to do better next time.
Yeah what have Paul Scholes and Nicky Butt ever done for this club? Wasters both of them.
Ignoring that the also overhauled their squad.
In a 4-2-3-1 system - with fit players, the attack is very good. Cunha, Bruno, Sesko and Mbeumo are definitely good enough. Apart from that, I have to disagree.
I know it's tough being a United fan. However, I would like the managerS to get a fair chance before they're disgarded. I'm not for or against Amorim, but I really hate it when managers are judged without having the opportunity to assemble their own team. I'm not entirely convinced about Rubens say in player aquisitions, but so far he's got a young WB, a goalkeeper and three attackers. Two of those haven't had a lot of game time.
Whether or not Ruben stays, I want the manager to be fully backed when he arrives. Iraola might do better with the current squad than Amorim. But we won't be able to support him properly either. At least not before summertime.
Wow some way to treat legends eh.
This highlights the lack of class the club has currently. As much as many on this forum loves to shit on SAF, Class of 92, the Robson years and suck off Jim Ratcliffe constantly. Most of the fans still hugely respect this era and I personally demand from the club they recognise our history and give it the respect they deserve.
Perhaps if we didn't do this cleansing of the United way the past few years since INEOS we would not be so okay with mediocrity!
I'm not a fan of entitled multi millionaires who shit on the club time and time again. Your 4 season tickets are all in use? How about you try to get tickets through the official channels like everyone else has to? If Scholes has openly admitted to using a tout, why has his season ticket not been taken away? Butt has left his seat empty for three games? That's him ineligible for renewal next season.
A job that they got paid insanely well for? What is Scholes doing for the club today that deserves continued rewards? All he does is shit on it. Great player but he already got reimbursed for that while he was playing and these days just comes across as sour and grumpy all the time.
Not being funny but if they wanted to speak about ticketing issues, they've had multiple chances to do it since 2005. When ordinary fans were facing numerous price increases, they were nowhere near to be seen. Rebelling against the system when it only impacts them, now they're on the outside of the system, years after they could have maybe had an impact doesn't sit well with me.
On a wider point, I'm finding the lack of nuance on here insane at the moment and it's making me want to sack this place off. Who's shitting on SAF? Who's sucking off Jim Ratcliffe? It appears as though unless you want to destroy every aspect of the club and give the class of 92 free exec boxes, you're shitting on the club's history.
Yep - and then what?
The focus is always on changing the manager, changing the players - and correctly so.
But when the thinking above the manager is so flawed/absent, there's little chance of improvement unless we hire a manager with the right ideas who can also educate the ignorant non playing football staff we seem to be perpetually encumbered with.
It would be genuinely fascinating to see what happens in meetings after performances like the one against Everton this week, and how the conclusion of "continue" is always reached.
Imagine what competent people could achieve with the funds we've invested. It's comical that we are supposedly an elite club yet the strategic roles are occupied by incompetence on such a scale that you would suspect it's deliberate negligence.
But when the thinking above the manager is so flawed/absent, there's little chance of improvement unless we hire a manager with the right ideas who can also educate the ignorant non playing football staff we seem to be perpetually encumbered with.
It would be genuinely fascinating to see what happens in meetings after performances like the one against Everton this week, and how the conclusion of "continue" is always reached.
Imagine what competent people could achieve with the funds we've invested. It's comical that we are supposedly an elite club yet the strategic roles are occupied by incompetence on such a scale that you would suspect it's deliberate negligence.
Not to mention we're only playing once a week and yet we somehow look knackered every game anyway.
I don’t think it is. At all. Plenty voice their concerns with INEOS, Ratcliffe and the Glazers, but the reality is that complaining about them is like screaming at the sea from the beach. If you take it there, you don’t really have a voice and may as well accept that we are grains of sand on said beach. It’ll take something monumental to rid ourselves of either, but in lieu of dealing with the cause, the symptoms can - or should - be quelled and that’s where we’re at really.
If you look at the bigger picture, the feeling of helplessness abounds.
Agree with what you say, however I was referring more to the mainstream press/narratives rather than the hardcore follower base, plus a leadership level down from that - i.e. the recruitment leads and director of football who thought £50 million on Ugarte was a good idea (amongst other things) when amateur fans were calling out the player's flaws before we even signed him.
And the shocking absence of standards generally, particularly on the decisions to continue with the present and previous manager after embarrassing seasons and the latest match. Addressing the symptoms is in their hands.
We have wide range of issues and amorim is one of them. His stubborness is not only detrimental to current situation of our club but also our long term prospect. Why would we want to reshape our team building to his 3421 system if amorim cant improve players at his disposal? Do you want to hire another 3421 manager after amorim got sacked?
and the club need CL money and judging from how inconsistent other big clubs have been this season i think we have a big chance to achieve however if we wait til January to pull the trigger we might found our club out of cl contention yet again.