Club ownership | Senior management team talk

[Apokalips]

No, he had to go after the EL final.

That performance and result was a farce, at no point did he try to take the game to Spurs.

Agreed, his goose was cooked after that game. That was pathetic and I can't believe he still had such vocifiorous fans after a horrible season and pathetic final. No changes for 70 mins, he had no idea what it takes to go for it.

 

[hellhunter]

No, he had to go after the EL final.

That performance and result was a farce, at no point did he try to take the game to Spurs.

It's not only the terrible performance and result that made this the right opportunity to part ways, it just made sense. Season finished, on a massive downer, basically no targets reached. A clean separation and ample time for his successor to start and prepare the team during summer.

Even if you think waiting for the Grimsby defeat would have been warranted, it would've been mid season again and left us scrambling for a replacement. Sometimes you need to be grown up and just play the numbers, it was always very unlikely he'd be a success after that first season - we jeopardized another year by hoping he'd turn it around

 

[Adz_99]

Fantastic news to divert away from the fact we are wasting our chances for CL football next season by ignoring this winter window.

The squad we've currently got should be able to get CL football easily.

Obviously if Casemiro gets injured we might regret it but I don't think we should throw money out there just in case Casemiro and Mainoo aren't available in the next 15 games.

 

[Adz_99]

No, he had to go after the EL final.

That performance and result was a farce, at no point did he try to take the game to Spurs.

Agreed. We've made the same mistake with our last 3 managers. The writing was on the wall in their last summer but we hung on just in case they turned it around and ended up giving them the boot 3 months later which completely wrote off those seasons.

We need to be more proactive in the summer.

 

[Escobar]

The squad we've currently got should be able to get CL football easily.

Obviously if Casemiro gets injured we might regret it but I don't think we should throw money out there just in case Casemiro and Mainoo aren't available in the next 15 games.

Absolutely. We are good enough for 4th on paper and we play only in the EPL. Better have another great summer (like last) and get top players in that we want rather than some stop gap solution

 

[mbapps]

Agreed. We've made the same mistake with our last 3 managers. The writing was on the wall in their last summer but we hung on just in case they turned it around and ended up giving them the boot 3 months later which completely wrote off those seasons.

We need to be more proactive in the summer.

Sacking Amorim post-EL final would have been reactive, not proactive.

I don't disagree with the gist of your post, otherwise, but firing/hiring a manager qua firing/hiring a manager isn't proactive.

 

[croadyman]

Absolutely. We are good enough for 4th on paper and we play only in the EPL. Better have another great summer (like last) and get top players in that we want rather than some stop gap solution

Just hope we don't get a big injury in midfield

 

[Garethw]

Not even linked with a loan deal for a midfielder. Hopefully the fans remember this if we come up short for a CL place.

An injury to Casemiro or Mainoo would be catastrophic, but the management team doesn’t seem to give a shit.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Not even linked with a loan deal for a midfielder. Hopefully the fans remember this if we come up short for a CL place.

An injury to Casemiro or Mainoo would be catastrophic, but the management team doesn’t seem to give a shit.

On the list of things wrong with the current ownership model, not panic buying a midfielder is so far down the list.

Probably around the same level as not getting a decent beer on draft in K Stand.

 

[acnumber9]

On the list of things wrong with the current ownership model, not panic buying a midfielder is so far down the list.

Probably around the same level as not getting a decent beer on draft in K Stand.

Clubs make January signings all the time. One of our competitors just brought in a midfielder on loan. If it pays off you get Chanpions League.

 

[Highfather_24]

On the list of things wrong with the current ownership model, not panic buying a midfielder is so far down the list.

Probably around the same level as not getting a decent beer on draft in K Stand.

A loan deal is not a panic buy. Ideally we should have gotten a midfielder last summer, but now is the next best time. They have had months to find a target.

 

[Garethw]

On the list of things wrong with the current ownership model, not panic buying a midfielder is so far down the list.

Probably around the same level as not getting a decent beer on draft in K Stand.

I didn’t say buy a midfielder. I said loan a midfielder. Do you honestly think that there is no one in world football that could be loaned and not be a better option than Ugarte?

 

[Uncle Mainoo]

A loan deal is not a panic buy. Ideally we should have gotten a midfielder last summer, but now is the next best time. They have had months to find a target.

Loan who?

I hate these fixed variable arguements. If Caicedo or Enzo gets injured or Gravenberch or Mac Allister gets injured, then those teams are in the same boat as us. However I don’t see them scrambling in the market to ensure they have backs up just because. Similar to us Chelsea tried to get a non obligation loan with Douglas Luis, but like us they wasn’t willing to waste their summer budget and that’s Chelsea of all clubs.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Clubs make January signings all the time. One of our competitors just brought in a midfielder on loan. If it pays off you get Chanpions League.

Yes they do.
If they don't thik the right man is available now, they shouldn't panic into presumably overpaying for someone which would inevitably result in us not being able to get rid in 18 months.

Whilst I would argue it's a risk not doing anything, it's definitely more sensible than overpaying for someone and potentially eating into our summer transfer budget. A bad transfer is significantly worse than perhaps giving Martinez a couple of games in midfield and maybe Yoro/Heaven/De Ligt playing at centre back.

I didn’t say buy a midfielder. I said loan a midfielder. Do you honestly think that there is no one in world football that could be loaned and not be a better option than Ugarte?

Now if we were in Europe or the FA Cup at least, I'd agree.

However, we're not and we have what 14 games left. What player is gonna come on loan (when they're not first choice and probably get 20 minutes, if that, each week.)

 

[acnumber9]

Yes they do.
If they don't thik the right man is available now, they shouldn't panic into presumably overpaying for someone which would inevitably result in us not being able to get rid in 18 months.

Whilst I would argue it's a risk not doing anything, it's definitely more sensible than overpaying for someone and potentially eating into our summer transfer budget. A bad transfer is significantly worse than perhaps giving Martinez a couple of games in midfield and maybe Yoro/Heaven/De Ligt playing at centre back.


Now if we were in Europe or the FA Cup at least, I'd agree.

However, we're not and we have what 14 games left. What player is gonna come on loan (when they're not first choice and probably get 20 minutes, if that, each week.)

I don’t think a loan is too big a risk. I’d have taken a gamble on Douglas Luiz happily. We know cost cutting is paramount though.

 

[Highfather_24]

When fans start to peddle the "no value in the market" narrative, you know the indoctrination is complete

 

[ron86]

Agreed. We've made the same mistake with our last 3 managers. The writing was on the wall in their last summer but we hung on just in case they turned it around and ended up giving them the boot 3 months later which completely wrote off those seasons.

We need to be more proactive in the summer.

We need to start sacking managers much sooner. Every single manager since Fergie shouldve been fired long before they were. Once we see that drop off, pull the trigger. Waiting for miracles just delays the inevitable and sets us back further. We still have fans with this misguided belief in time. A manager should get as long as they perform for, simple as that. Fergie was 40 years ago, completely different time

 

[Robindinho]

A loan deal is not a panic buy. Ideally we should have gotten a midfielder last summer, but now is the next best time. They have had months to find a target.

A player on loan isn't going to come just to sit on the bench though/not going to find someone better than Casemiro/Mainoo.

We have so few games, no need to rotate them, bar injuries... Even then, Mount/Bruno can play as an 8.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

I don’t think a loan is too big a risk. I’d have taken a gamble on Douglas Luiz happily. We know cost cutting is paramount though.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing.

And Douglaz Luiz, a man who's career has been going downhill for 18 months and is only available now because he's been playing crap for Forest.

My point is almost being proved if he's one of the few available.

 

[acnumber9]

This isn't necessarily a bad thing.

And Douglaz Luiz, a man who's career has been going downhill for 18 months and is only available now because he's been playing crap for Forest.

My point is almost being proved if he's one of the few available.

Villa were happy enough to take him though. He’s just an example.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Villa were happy enough to take him though. He’s just an example.

Villa were also happy to take Jadon Sancho and Harvey Elliot in the summer. Not sure we should be using them as a barometer for this particular discussion point.

 

[Alex99]

Not even linked with a loan deal for a midfielder. Hopefully the fans remember this if we come up short for a CL place.

An injury to Casemiro or Mainoo would be catastrophic, but the management team doesn’t seem to give a shit.

Are we going to be able to loan anyone of sufficient enough quality for that to even make a difference?

Who do you propose we should be going after?

 

[acnumber9]

Villa were also happy to take Jadon Sancho and Harvey Elliot in the summer. Not sure we should be using them as a barometer for this particular discussion point.

No, I suppose not. They also were happy to pick up Tielemans on a free when many turned their nose up. You win some, you lose some.

The overall point being that not dipping into the market is patience in the same way that keeping Amorim was being patient.

 

[JediSith]

The squad we've currently got should be able to get CL football easily.

Obviously if Casemiro gets injured we might regret it but I don't think we should throw money out there just in case Casemiro and Mainoo aren't available in the next 15 games.

Over a period of matches a cm of Mainoo and Casemiro doesn’t offer enough protection to the back four. Casemiro is great at reading the play and intercepting with his positioning, most of the goals we’ve conceded have come by people running through our midfield. Now granted this was mostly during Amorim with Casemiro and Bruno in cm.

 

[croadyman]

When fans start to peddle the "no value in the market" narrative, you know the indoctrination is complete

I refuse to ever peddle that line, from my point of view it's more of a case I knew they wouldn't sign anyone once Semenyo was taken off table by City

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Are we going to be able to loan anyone of sufficient enough quality for that to even make a difference?

Who do you propose we should be going after?

Indeed.

I genuinely think we're in danger of perfectly reasonable decisions becoming an issue in the minds of some people because we're addicted to crisis.

 

[Nyland]

When fans start to peddle the "no value in the market" narrative, you know the indoctrination is complete

I hate that phrase. Uttered by Ferguson once during a time he absolutely dominated at home - I don't think we were bested on points for several years -and if not for the misfortune of coming up against the greatest club side of all time, would have dominated Europe too. And yet so many fans have been happy to throw that line up in his face because all they cared about was the fact we didn't outspend City. I look back at that era and what we achieved - what he achieved - and the one take away many fans come away with is "Wahh, we didn't spend more than someone else" - and have constantly used "no value in the market" to mock and deride the boss.

Genuinely believe there are fans that would have been happy to see fewer league titles if the trade-off was seeing our net spend on transfermrkt.com a bit higher.

Use of "No value in market" is a red flag

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

I hate that phrase. Uttered by Ferguson once during a time he absolutely dominated at home - I don't think we were bested on points for several years -and if not for the misfortune of coming up against the greatest club side of all time, would have dominated Europe too. And yet so many fans have been happy to throw that line up in his face because all they cared about was the fact we didn't outspend City. I look back at that era and what we achieved - what he achieved - and the one take away many fans come away with is "Wahh, we didn't spend more than someone else" - and have constantly used "no value in the market" to mock and deride the boss.

Genuinely believe there are fans that would have been happy to see fewer league titles if the trade-off was seeing our net spend on transfermrkt.com a bit higher.

Use of "No value in market" is a red flag

The thing is post 2009, there was certainly some value in the market. Especially when we were so often playing the likes of Darren Gibson in midfield. There were plenty of reasonably priced midfielders around that time that could have improved us and potentially won us another European Cup (certainly in 2010 anyway.)

Whilst our success was clearly still great from that time, it could have been better.

There were also some bizarre signings in that time.

I do agree with the general theme of your post though. Post Ronaldo and Tevez, it did feel like fans were just desperate for a big name.

 

[Bobby_2024]

The thing is post 2009, there was certainly some value in the market. Especially when we were so often playing the likes of Darren Gibson in midfield. There were plenty of reasonably priced midfielders around that time that could have improved us and potentially won us another European Cup (certainly in 2010 anyway.)

Whilst our success was clearly still great from that time, it could have been better.

There were also some bizarre signings in that time.

I do agree with the general theme of your post though. Post Ronaldo and Tevez, it did feel like fans were just desperate for a big name.

Totally agreed, we stopped building the team after 2010 especially midfield, when citi/pool were buying good players for 30-35M range.
After 2013 it was all Disney signings.

 

[Bobby_2024]

Wish we have added a midfielder in this JAN window, I know INEOS signings were better compared to previous years so I trust they have few good ones lined up for summer

Yoro,Deligt,Maz,Lemmens,Dorgu,Mbeumo,Cunha,Sesko looks like successful stories

only Zirkzee and Ugarte are on the wrong side, I have a feeling even Zirkzee can contribute a lot in this system playing behind the striker. His ball controlling and one touch distribution is excellent to be honest.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

This is what every future protest should be calling out.

 

[RedRocket9908]

This is what every future protest should be calling out.

And them charging £100 for a tour of Carrington

 

[Ellben]

This is what every future protest should be calling out.

It’s beyond ridiculous, and without sounding inciteful, i’m not sure what legal ground the club stand on by accepting returned season ticket/ member tickets, and reselling them as hospitality packages. The club have openly stated they use dynamic pricing, however, this isn’t dynamic pricing by definition.

The ironic thing is, any meaningful sponsor, as in the one’s with the financial clout the club are trying to attract, will see this PR nightmare and give us a wide berth.

It does seem very on the nose. Taunting the £66 you’re taking the p*ss chants from last season. I saw £37 stretford tier 1 tickets being sold as hospitality by the club for £315.

The protest will come when they impose the member prices on season ticket holders. Right now, there is a divide within the fanbase, and for ST holders it’s a case of “This affects the members, but i’m a season ticket holder”. It’s a bit different when they come knocking at your door.

Right now, i’m classed as too new a member to be requesting tickets on here, and until that’s the case, I wait until nearer the game. Take the risk, to avoid being incensed by the club’s incompetence.

 

[George The Best]

Everyone needs to calm down a bit. Our finances are not what they used to be thanks to the Glazers. If Carrick gets us European football next season that will be a huge boost. I can totally understand not throwing money at bang average players in the winter window. Gallagher is not pulling up trees at Spurs despite some on here wanting him. We have a massive, and expensive, problem to fix in the summer - Casemiro. Replacing him is likely to take a huge amount of our budget.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

This is what every future protest should be calling out.

I was only ever once in the hospitality section. It was for the second leg of Bilboa game (Europa League Semi Final). It was me Dad and brother and we got those tickets within a package that included transport on the bus, boat, hospitality section to Manchester and back home to Ireland. I am pretty sure it was 380 euros each. It was a 24hr round trip. The same package excluding hospitality (for regular ticket) is normally 200 euros. However, for that game the normal seats were 280 and that was sold out.

The atmosphere for that game was amazing and the whole stadium was buzzing. I'm not sure if I'd want those seats for a more regular game.

The seats were padded and my Dad preferred them. I must say, having access to food I think it was for 3 hours before the game and you could eat as much as you like was handy. We probably had the guts of 60 pounds worth of food for free (within the package). We had a table and could relax. We got a couple drinks which were extra and drinks were not inflated prices. Another big plus was access to the toilets. They were spotless and never a que. A complimentary cup of tea/coffee at half time and not having to que and miss part of the second half was amazing.

My whole point is for us to get the hospitality probably all in costs 50-70 euro extra and for that price, it is worth it.

Bare in mind, we go over 2-3 times a season and I bare in mind comfort and handiness for my Dad. As mad as it sounds, it works out cheaper for us to get these packages than trying to buy everything separate, and literally no worries.

To finish off, the hospitality staff were very well trained and friendly and welcoming.

I'm not justifying the price and these hospitality packages are aimed at the likes of the Asian fans and fans like me (who takes into account I am with family) who don't go every week. Also bare in mind what we paid (380) for a big game included hospitality and travel from basically our doorstep to and from Manchester.

 

[RedSince82]

Am I the only one that thinks Ratcliffe has done well?

Yes they took a wrong turn with Amorim. But the transfers they have made have all been good. Theyve spent big on experience and some good youngsters. You cant get everything in 1 or 2 windows.

You add the missing pieces this summer and United will be flying. Theres far too much doom and gloom let by that Goldprat guy.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Am I the only one that thinks Ratcliffe has done well?

Yes they took a wrong turn with Amorim. But the transfers they have made have all been good. Theyve spent big on experience and some good youngsters. You cant get everything in 1 or 2 windows.

You add the missing pieces this summer and United will be flying. Theres far too much doom and gloom let by that Goldprat guy.

I think, on the pitch, they've done ok and we'll undoubtedly benefit from some of this decision making over the next few years.

My issue with him is the ticketing stuff and wider 'fan culture' issues. He seems almost insistent on making things as difficult as possible for matchgoing fans. Even the Glazers at their absolute worst were never as bad as this.

 

[RedSince82]

I think, on the pitch, they've done ok and we'll undoubtedly benefit from some of this decision making over the next few years.

My issue with him is the ticketing stuff and wider 'fan culture' issues. He seems almost insistent on making things as difficult as possible for matchgoing fans. Even the Glazers at their absolute worst were never as bad as this.

The problem is they have to keep up with rivals. United tickets have been pretty cheap in comparison to other top teams.

Its bad for fans. But its bad for fans all over. We are no different.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

The problem is they have to keep up with rivals. United tickets have been pretty cheap in comparison to other top teams.

Its bad for fans. But its bad for fans all over. We are no different.

Do we/they? Why are other teams with a presumably different business model (especially in the cases of maybe Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs) examples of why we should increase ticket prices and prioritise more corporate models.

And even if they were, charging people £300 for a normal seat but throwing in a meal at Victoria Warehouse might see an immediate uplift in revenue but can't image serious business customers will come back regularly. It's a short term fix but will kill off our support.

And when the new ground (if...) comes, we are going to see an attempt at this to be ramped up even more.

 

[clarkydaz]

I think, on the pitch, they've done ok and we'll undoubtedly benefit from some of this decision making over the next few years.

My issue with him is the ticketing stuff and wider 'fan culture' issues. He seems almost insistent on making things as difficult as possible for matchgoing fans. Even the Glazers at their absolute worst were never as bad as this.

He's hand in hand with the Glazers, all these initiatives on squeezing fans are American driven