Since that Brentford game in 2022 the only starting defender we have bought is de ligt who is currently a sick note. So our first choice back 4 is no better. We do now have young players as squad depth who may develop, is that better?
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
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Since what Brentford game?
When we go beat 4-0 4 years ago under your pal ten hag. Back line was Shaw, Dalot, Martinez, maguire.
That is our current starting back 4, the one that wasnt good enough 4years ago
Yes we bought few defenders in last 4 years like Martinez,Yoro,Deligt and Maz
Question is how many of them can walk into top teams? I would say only an injury prone Martinez has some chance.
so why this was not addressed in first place rather prolonging with same players for years.
You are well aware, Shaw and Dalot playing most of the games wont take this team anywhere near trophies
Yoro and Heaven are not ready which leaves injury prone Deligt and Martinez.
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No need to have a think. So three quarters of the back four have started 100% of the games they were fit and available for and the other quarter stared 74%.
We conceded 1.06 goals per game last season under Carrick. If our selection of defenders is so shit how does that correlate?
You say we consistently have the same selection even though we have 3 new signings who made 11, 11 and 7 apps under Carrick last season.
Maybe don't make statements up to say our defensive options are unchanged since 2022.
You keep saying appearances, we are talking about our starting back 4 so just use starts. Yoro was 6 and that was when Martinez got injured
So, roughly speaking, in terms of net spend, we've spent £15m more than Hull!!!
Albeit we've also spent £10m less than Coventry and £70m less than Ipswich.
Albeit we've also spent £10m less than Coventry and £70m less than Ipswich.
Appearances matter but to addresses Yoro - that's 30% of Carrick's games
Heaven also started 3 outside of that
Maz started 5.
So when someone says consistently same back 4, that's not true. It's just another lie to paint a narrative against the owners. And it's fecking tiresome.
Tell me why our defence is so bad. Explain it.
Shaw is done at this level, Dalot is average at best, Martinez and de ligt are crocks, maguire is probably our most consistent performer but not top class and never has been, Yoro and heaven have talent but are nowere near top class as of yet (to be expected at their very young ages playing cb)
Thanks so despite all of this, and having a DM who's legs have gone, Carrick had 1.06 per game conceded. That's ridiculously low.
Either he's a genius or the defence did a good job and isn't as bad as you say. Of course it can't be the latter because that blocks your route into crying about the owners.
A club like UTD should be judged on trophies and how many we won with this defense and what was our track record in champions league.
We cant win trophies only with defence but a solid back line would be a foundation for all successful teams.
I only want to say we can really improve current backline, we tried but when it is not yielding the desired results you look at alternative solutions, if it cant be done in a single window at least phase by phase.....that's all I am saying
No. I said first choice. Have a look at my post to Ron or my edited post for the evidence that shows who our first choice are.
Maybe don’t make up something I didn’t say.
The only lie here is yours. That is what is tiresome.
Between you're undying support for Ten Hag when he was clearly not up to it and your fierce defence of the worst owners in the league, I'm starting to suspect you may actually work for the club
I think the defenders we do have in the squad are underrated by most on here, particularly the full backs.
None of Dalot, Mazraoui, or Shaw are world beaters by any stretch but I don't think there's a massively large pool of players on either flank who are definitive upgrades on them in the Premier League.
Mistakes made by United defenders are amplified far more than basically any other side in the league and I think this has people convinced that our defenders are worse than they really are.
I think it's going to be harder to find a clear upgrade in the full back positions for us than people expect. I said yesterday that besides Lewis Hall, none of the options mentioned for us at left back have me particularly convinced. I think there's a very real chance that the likes of Balde or Salinas would've come in and not even represented a clear upgrade on playing Mazraoui at left back.
The post that started it all, and what you quoted me on is above.
What lie have I said?
Brilliant way to admit you don't actually have a response to the point.
It depends on your priorities, if you are content with low block defending with snail paced defenders its fine, but if you want to compete at highest level you need more that that
I am stepping aside as I know its you and @ron86 discussion, so you 2 carry on
Selective quoting isn’t going to help you here. At no stage did I say we never signed any defenders. I said our first choice remains the same. All evidence proves that.
A new stadium will be built on adding more debt which will prolong this charade. It will probably not be club properly and will be rented to the club, more expenditure.
We should focus on rebuilding our team and consistently finishing high up the PL. this will bring greater financial rewards, and involvement in the CL, more finance incoming. Only when we are financially stable we should revisit the topic of a stadium
Our first choice has MDL over Maguire though?
This only looks at the defense side, my main gripe with shaw, and Maz for that matter is their lack of offensive input. They slow attacks down and we lose that explosive edge
Does it? That’s completely untested under Carrick. It’s also completely unknown when he’ll be back from injury and to what standard.
It also ignores that we’ve lost Casemiro who was a big asset defensively.
You just get the feeling that we will drop out of CL, Carrick gets scacepgoated and sacked, and they bring in a new manager and spend big again next summer to get back into CL. Rinse and repeat.
This was the golden opportunity to really strengthen and consolidate a top 3-4 place. Would have been better for the club financially long term too.
But they were too risk averse. Too afraid to make mistakes. They chickened out.
This was the golden opportunity to really strengthen and consolidate a top 3-4 place. Would have been better for the club financially long term too.
But they were too risk averse. Too afraid to make mistakes. They chickened out.
It ignores a lot of things to carry on his defense of the owndership
If we defended as hard as you defend this ownership we would be winning the league.
If you think a back four of current Shaw, Dalot, maguire and martinez is good enough that's fair enough, I think it's midtable at best and should be much better. We played a low block to help protect the, we can't carry on like that to progress
Right so you reckon a fully fit MDL goes behind Maguire. He was our best CB and one of the best in the league in the first half of last season.
But if he had no injury he'd be behind Maguire. Strong doubt on that one.
So no, first choice back two is diff and when fit a very high quality. RB dalot needs an upgrade but isn't terrible. LB we need an upgrade but couldn't make it this summer. Hardly a disaster but you're painting one anyway.
I don't think it's good enough to win the league. i think it's good enough for top 4 no problem. People thought we couldn't cruise it last year and we did.
We played a mid block last year not a low block. Why claim something we never did?
I think we will get cl, in spite of the defence not because of
A defence that performed well in spite of having no legs last season? And if we finish well this season it's in spite of that defence? Sure ok mate.
I guess we can compare goals conceded at the end and see.
The Athletic article was an awful read.
- Had Anderson,Tchouameni and Fernandes as top targets. Couldnt compete financially on those deal
- Were basically humbled and spat on by Tottenham and WHU on the Fernandes deal, and revealed fee was a bigger issue than wages
- Were told A.Scott was not for sale, and Ederson had knee issues, so pivoted to Tielesman and Santos
- Went in for Hall only in August. Had no other real backup in mind
- Panicked and scrambled near deadline day for the likes of Salinas, Balde and Ait Nouri
- No CFs either
- Failed to sell/loan the likes of Rashford, Zirkzee etc
Wilcox should be sacked, but the bigger issue is we're operating on a shoestring budget
- Had Anderson,Tchouameni and Fernandes as top targets. Couldnt compete financially on those deal
- Were basically humbled and spat on by Tottenham and WHU on the Fernandes deal, and revealed fee was a bigger issue than wages
- Were told A.Scott was not for sale, and Ederson had knee issues, so pivoted to Tielesman and Santos
- Went in for Hall only in August. Had no other real backup in mind
- Panicked and scrambled near deadline day for the likes of Salinas, Balde and Ait Nouri
- No CFs either
- Failed to sell/loan the likes of Rashford, Zirkzee etc
Wilcox should be sacked, but the bigger issue is we're operating on a shoestring budget
It’s not about what I think, I don’t pick the team. We don’t know when and to what level De Ligt will return so it’s pointless to even think about him.
Is it possible that Carrick, having worked with Maguire in the past, would pick him? Yeah, it’s possible.
Leadership is just learning the wrong lessons from the past. Getting good deals is fine, but it doesn't mean that every expensive player will fail. At the end of the day, the only reason we got Baleba at a better price than last year is because he had a terrible season, otherwise, he would've been another £100m+ player. If Lewis Hall plays well again this season, he'll be another player we won't be able to afford.
Yes, spending money doesn't guarantee anything, but it sure as hell delivered trophies to Arsenal and City, even when they made mistakes.
We have ownership that lacks ambition and isn't willing to put any money into the club. Ultimately, if we continue not challenging for anything and being in and out of Europe on a regular basis, the value of the club will diminish. Meanwhile, the vampires are happy to squeeze every last drop of blood out of this club.
Yes, spending money doesn't guarantee anything, but it sure as hell delivered trophies to Arsenal and City, even when they made mistakes.
We have ownership that lacks ambition and isn't willing to put any money into the club. Ultimately, if we continue not challenging for anything and being in and out of Europe on a regular basis, the value of the club will diminish. Meanwhile, the vampires are happy to squeeze every last drop of blood out of this club.
But that's a different point.
The whole gripe was how we have the same back four as 2022.
I then showed how different players started and you changed it to starting. Now, De Ligt when fit does start but we were unlucky on the injury.
Point here is, this stick you're using to beat the owners isn't very strong. Because we did recruit, those recruits did start and the only reason a major one isn't is because he's been hurt and needs to be managed. That's not a problem with new decision makers who have had two summer Windows in charge and are changing an entire squad in the process.
None of which are good/fit enough to be in a starting 4. Case in point.
At the moment? This is the pathway to the new stadium
De ligt was but he got hurt.
Yoro I think is for certain games.
The fact is we signed defenders , 3 of them and they've all featured under Carrick in games. They featured during a period he had a strong defence record so your point doesn't really stand up.
No. My point is our first choice 11 is the same. All the evidence states it is. You’ve used a lot of words to disprove nothing.
Our first choice XI has De Ligt if he didn't have the back problem.
Just like we played Yoro and Heaven when Martinez was out.
You can't use mental gymnastics and cherry pick when to apply the "he's injured" argument.