- Joined
- Jun 18, 2024
- Messages
- 249
It's like forgiving a girl for cheating and taking her back. If she cheats again you cut her loose and admit you made a mistake forgiving her. INEOS needs to cut EtH loose, no one will blame them.
For the second paragraph, I answered in my final paragraph and I don’t disagree with you on that. Now is different to then.Do you actually believe this? Direct or indirect involvement is not important. The key point is they are definitely involved in the decision one way or another.
Also, now they are fully in charge. The football last season and now surely is sufficient for them to act now? They are so called best in class football people and we are playing worst in class football in PL.
For the second paragraph, I answered in my final paragraph and I don’t disagree with you on that. Now is different to then.
And for your first paragraph, I do believe it yes. You’d be asking the two key decision makers to sack a manager they haven’t worked with yet, who has just beat city in the cup final fairly comfortably. Say they’d sacked him then and got McKenna or Tuchel and right now we were still midtable. They’d have been slaughtered for it in the media. And don’t underestimate fan fickleness. They also wouldn’t have legally been able to speak to any candidates. Had Newcastle or city got wind of them doing so then they’d have been in the shit
Maybe they should have. As I said, I would have. But there is a reason new execs come in and usually give the current manager at least 6 months. It’s like sex.. Get in, analyse, plan and then take action.Do best in class football people need to work with the manager before they can make any decisions? This sounds amauter and incompetent to me. Nowadays, there are lots of video, data analysis and whatnot for review.
There are lots of football people appoint manager that way and not have to work with them first. Last season alone finishing 8th should be enough for best in class football people to make decision, injury or not. Mistake is a mistake, let's admit it and correct it.
Maybe they should have. As I said, I would have. But there is a reason new execs come in and usually give the current manager at least 6 months. It’s like sex.. Get in, analyse, plan and then take action.
It’s easy to say that there are videos etc but I think you’d feel differently if in the position. It’s better for everyone if a decision is made once the legs are under the table and they can do their job without restriction
There was chat before the season about top 4 not being the target, and building for the future long term instead. I doesn’t feel like what the fans would consider success was ever on the agenda this season, although I doubt they expected it to be as bad as it was yesterday.Even though I thought the axe would fall this time next week after the Villa game, part of me was hoping they’d sack him this morning just on pure principle.
If they don’t sack him this time next week during the upcoming international break, the season will have once again been nuked.
@pocco @Yakuza_devils @Insanity and anyone who has a dim view of the hierarchy - genuine question, not being funny here but what did you expect from them? How soon did you think we’d see results? Where should we be now?
I’m not talking about on the pitch because it is an entirely different situation, but given the huge upheaval behind the scenes and the fact that people are settling into their positions still it seems too soon to say nothing has improved.
I’m genuinely curious about this view point because it’s not one I share. Do you really believe this or is it just frustration at the absolute shitefest we witnessed yesterday and last Wednesday?
I've just finished reading the biography of Stan Cullis, the Wolves manager, who was one of the game's deepI think Ineos knew this was coming.
Gave EtH enough rope to hang himself. Can't blame Ineos now.
Now let's just hope they have done a decent homework and not just jump to Tuchel or Waistcoat
@pocco @Yakuza_devils @Insanity and anyone who has a dim view of the hierarchy - genuine question, not being funny here but what did you expect from them? How soon did you think we’d see results? Where should we be now?
I’m not talking about on the pitch because it is an entirely different situation, but given the huge upheaval behind the scenes and the fact that people are settling into their positions still it seems too soon to say nothing has improved.
I’m genuinely curious about this view point because it’s not one I share. Do you really believe this or is it just frustration at the absolute shitefest we witnessed yesterday and last Wednesday?
i don’t really think there’s much wrong. Our fanbase happily slated what was going on behind the scenes pre Ineos, now they’re here and everyone forgotten and thinks it should be fixed?They’ve done a lot of good so far but I don’t like the way they’ve handled the managerial situation at all. Shambolic.
And you've not even mentioned the complete mess that INEOS made of Team Sky in road cycling.You didn't address me, because I don't have a dim view of them per se, but I've also been distinctly whelmed by what I've seen so far, so I'll have a stab at it.
My feeling is that after 10 years of United being shit with numerous false dawns I simply want to be actively convinced of a group, manager or a player. I've got too caught up in the cycles of optimism and pessimism, so for me I've tried to put aside all of the self aggrandising PR and focus on what they've actually done, not what they've said they want to do.
In that respect, I do think there have been some positives. The new stadium plans, the appointment of a senior leadership team for the first time, and some of our transfer business. But in other respects I've been disappointed. The most obvious is the backing of ten Hag, but also the sacking of staff because it's INEOS's playbook to come in and chop 25% and stuff like abolishing WFH and complaining about mess just strike me as petty vindictiveness dressed up as a management philosophy, rather than anything that will actually contribute to our success. The disrespect in all of Ratcliffe's communications of the women's team has also been unfortunate. And I also have to say, regardless of his credentials, it's hugely unfortunate that our new CEO was directly involved with City's, alleged, industrial level cheating. It seems to me a fairly dumb decision to expose yourself to the fall out to that.
All of which brings me to how I feel about them currently which is that, whilst they're better than the Glazers, and significantly better than being a Qatari toy, the bar was so low that it would have been a challenge not to pass it, but I will need to see a lot more from them to be actively convinced they're going to be able to bring success back to us.
Maybe just call it a trauma response that I'm slow to trust when it comes to United.
@pocco @Yakuza_devils @Insanity and anyone who has a dim view of the hierarchy - genuine question, not being funny here but what did you expect from them? How soon did you think we’d see results? Where should we be now?
I’m not talking about on the pitch because it is an entirely different situation, but given the huge upheaval behind the scenes and the fact that people are settling into their positions still it seems too soon to say nothing has improved.
I’m genuinely curious about this view point because it’s not one I share. Do you really believe this or is it just frustration at the absolute shitefest we witnessed yesterday and last Wednesday?
Of course people will blame them, if they sack him now the narrative will be ‘incompetent idiots should have sacked him after the FA Cup’. INEOS aren’t going to look good coming out of this unless EtH somehow has a miraculous recovery.It's like forgiving a girl for cheating and taking her back. If she cheats again you cut her loose and admit you made a mistake forgiving her. INEOS needs to cut EtH loose, no one will blame them.
So much for the vaunted "ruthlessness". Unless you are a rank and file employee, that is.
That perception is inevitable whether they sack him now or at the end of the season. Doing it now would at least signal that they learn quickly from their mistakes.Of course people will blame them, if they sack him now the narrative will be ‘incompetent idiots should have sacked him after the FA Cup’. INEOS aren’t going to look good coming out of this unless EtH somehow has a miraculous recovery.
Good PostI've just finished reading the biography of Stan Cullis, the Wolves manager, who was one of the game's deep
thinkers in the postwar period, along with Matt Busby, his close friend.
He emphasises "spirit" as one of the key, indispensable components for a successful elite club, by which he means several things. It includes
teamwork, discipline, full commitment to the club and humility and respect to the fans. He was prepared to take a season or two to ensure
that his squad had the necessary "spirit", with uneven performances and less wins than normal for one of the top group.
It seems that Ineos have identified that as a major problem in the club, but are they prepared to go through the whole process of restoring
the club's spirit, and avoid the magic manager syndrome.
@pocco @Yakuza_devils @Insanity and anyone who has a dim view of the hierarchy - genuine question, not being funny here but what did you expect from them? How soon did you think we’d see results? Where should we be now?
I’m not talking about on the pitch because it is an entirely different situation, but given the huge upheaval behind the scenes and the fact that people are settling into their positions still it seems too soon to say nothing has improved.
I’m genuinely curious about this view point because it’s not one I share. Do you really believe this or is it just frustration at the absolute shitefest we witnessed yesterday and last Wednesday?
They deserve that criticism though. I was one of the few who was saying that logic and sense should have been used rather than the emotion of winning a cup against a City side that didn't bother to turn up. He should have been sacked, LVG was sacked for losing out on goal difference for top 4. Deservedly so, as the results and performances were dire. ETH somehow get's another chance because they bottled the task of selling their "project" to Tuchel.Of course people will blame them, if they sack him now the narrative will be ‘incompetent idiots should have sacked him after the FA Cup’. INEOS aren’t going to look good coming out of this unless EtH somehow has a miraculous recovery.
This.Do best in class football people need to work with the manager before they can make any decisions? This sounds amauter and incompetent to me. Nowadays, there are lots of video, data analysis and whatnot for review.
There are lots of football people appoint manager that way and not have to work with them first. Last season alone finishing 8th should be enough for best in class football people to make decision, injury or not. Mistake is a mistake, let's admit it and correct it.
Football is pretty simple, you don't watch a game like yesterday and conclude that yeah we need six months to decide. When Ten Hag gets it wrong it's really bad and he doesn't even have the skill to make his team rally and recover. He just accepts the bad result and move on because he is not being held to account.Maybe they should have. As I said, I would have. But there is a reason new execs come in and usually give the current manager at least 6 months. It’s like sex.. Get in, analyse, plan and then take action.
It’s easy to say that there are videos etc but I think you’d feel differently if in the position. It’s better for everyone if a decision is made once the legs are under the table and they can do their job without restriction
This is what they should have done if they were a serious football operations outfit but for now look like indecisive clowns. Yesterday showed us that the team looked unprepared and unfocused and his response in 40 minutes of utter domination by a struggling Spurs was to just watch, no tactical changes or subs just watching as were being humiliated.Even though I thought the axe would fall this time next week after the Villa game, part of me was hoping they’d sack him this morning just on pure principle.
If they don’t sack him this time next week during the upcoming international break, the season will have once again been nuked.
Yeah they proving to be indecisive incompetent clowns.All their talk of standards is nothing but noise when they don’t have the bottle to make a decisive decision.
‘Beloved’ press officer? Really? Does any other club have a ‘beloved’ press officer?
I'm now thinking the only reason he hasn't gone is down to the egos of the idiots that didn't replace him in the summer. Sacking him so soon after would just hammer home what an incompetent decision they'd made.