Club Sale | Arnold to step down as CEO; INEOS 25% could be announced in the early part of next week (or month (or year))? | Happy one year anniversary

OmarUnited4ever

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It’s all guesswork now but their forecasted profits for 2022 and cash balance suggest that can provide 3bn or so, with the rest being made up of loans.
From what we have been told about their bid, the rest would be 1.5bn
.
Now make no mistake, INEOS forecasts show they absolutely can take on that debt, plus the 18m /year servicing of the Glazer debt, without barely affecting their bottom line.
United, removed of debt can handle their own transfer budget and some, the club can likely match any other sides transfer business whilst still paying for it’s own new training ground (Leicester’s state of the art cost 100m, so double that for United).

INEOS profits also tell us that the company could after an acquisition, foot the bills for a new stadium or revamp over the coming years, without requiring extra loans to do so.

So there’s no question INEOS can “afford” it, but can they outbid the Qataris? The only important factor here? Very very doubtful. And the Glazers will simply sell to the highest bidder.

I genuinely doubt the bolded part.. just from the published results of some of their financial groups like the Group Holdings or Quattro, their profits are at 2bn or something, which will still be needed to service their future debts and for capital or operational expenditures to run their massive businesses.

As you said it's a guesswork and we don't know how financially strong INEOS is (privately owned and all) and they could simply just take on any debts and even spend some on the club, but from the limited published financial information, not much is there to undertake on a huge loan to buy the club at 5-6bn.

Btw I am really ok with INEOS as a potential owner, my worry is simply about it they can invest further on the club in certain areas as well as managing whatever loan they take to fund the acquisition of MUFC
 
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I genuinely doubt the bolded part.. just from the published results of some of their financial groups like the Group Holdings or Quattro, their profits are at 2bn or something, which will still be needed to service their future debts
Debt financing is already listed as an expense mate. The profit is the bottomline after that, what remains after all their expenditure, which obviously includes interest and debt repayments.

I’ll say again, they make 1.5-2 bn /year profit, of course they can afford to invest in the club’s infrastructure over the coming years.
 
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Mr. Robot

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I still don't quite understand why the same people keep coming back here to say the same thing, over and over again.

If you're done with Utd if Qatar buy us, I respect that. But move on with your life ffs and start supporting another team with good, wholesome owners (good luck finding one!)
 

MF1138

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Isn't that just the compromised nature of modern football? It's all a sleaze pit. Maybe that's the spectacle now?
Perhaps it is. But we all know United will be held to a higher standard, it can already be seen in the reaction to this. A lot of people saying they don't care what other fans think, but many will.

My point remains that people are gonna have to come to terms with it because it will be the stick to beat us with.
 

sglowrider

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I still don't quite understand why the same people keep coming back here to say the same thing, over and over again.

If you're done with Utd if Qatar buy us, I respect that. But move on with your life ffs and start supporting another team with good, wholesome owners (good luck finding one!)
All that angst over something they have zero control over too. Not healthy
 

Tiber

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There's a slight worry in the back of my mind that if we do win a couple of cups this year the Glazers will convince themselves they can oversee success and make the club even more valuable
 

MF1138

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If your support for United hinges on what rival fans/majority of people think of the trophies United won then you've not had it easy out here. United isn't exactly beloved by the majority of people
I'd don't recall saying anything of the sort. Just that people are gonna have to get used to being constantly told it doesn't really count. You can either roll with it or not.
 

Kinsella

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I'd don't recall saying anything of the sort. Just that people are gonna have to get used to being constantly told it doesn't really count. You can either roll with it or not.
Exactly. If you’re state owned the association sticks.
 

TsuWave

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I'd don't recall saying anything of the sort. Just that people are gonna have to get used to being constantly told it doesn't really count. You can either roll with it or not.
My statement wasn't specifically to you, I was addressing you but speaking in general for people that feel that way. I'm sure I'm going to be inconsolable celebrating the 10th UCL United win because a rival fan said it doesn't count. Just thinking about it has me shivering right now.
 

Nori-

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The Qatari's watching our win over Barca thinking, "We want a piece of that pie, bid an extra billion"
 

stevoc

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It might take months for it to be completed, but I think in the next few weeks we'll definitely find out where the wind is blowing.
Hopefully, however it plays out I just want it confirmed the Glazers are fecking off.
 

TsuWave

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Exactly. If you’re state owned the association sticks.
United winning the league and I'm distraught and my chakra system in disarray because I'll be told "it doesn't count you're state owned" :lol: Come on man
 

Pexbo

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Kinsella

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United winning the league and I'm distraught and my chakra system in disarray because I'll be told "it doesn't count you're state owned" :lol: Come on man
The concern is with the club being tainted by state ownership, not with whether you’re ‘distraught’ with winning trophies.
 

TsuWave

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The concern is with the club being tainted by state ownership, not with whether you’re ‘distraught’ with winning trophies.
The concern is rooted in insecurity.

This is the post you said "exactly" to and the one that preceded it:

people are gonna have to get used to being constantly told it doesn't really count. You can either roll with it or not.
People are gonna have to come to terms with the idea that anything we win under a Qatari ownership will forever come with an asterisk for the majority of people. Whether that's fair or not won't matter.
"b-b-but Jonny around the corner will tell me it doesn't count"
 

Compton22

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Yeah I’m worried. Sale talks have silenced and we’re doing well. Maybe they feel they’ve struck gold with Ten Haag.
It's not about the teams success, it's about the investment needed, no amount of on the pitch success is going to benefit the Glazers in the short term. Not with the massive outlay required.

Don't worry. Success or not, we are being sold.
 

SAF is the GOAT

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Really don't know how a potential buyer see this team and doesn't want to massively invest in it when we play like that. They MUST to invest in everything!
 

TrebleChamp99

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Amazing result tonight.
Qatari flags in the Stretford end .

Thought match going fans were against Qatar?
 

Rood

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Amazing result tonight.
Qatari flags in the Stretford end .

Thought match going fans were against Qatar?
According to who? Plenty of matchgoers would be happy with a Qatari takeover, although plenty have reservations about it too. Same for Ratcliffe

General sentiment is anyone apart from the Glazers will do
 

DevilRed

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I'm an investment analyst for a living, but honestly I just can't be arsed to do it fully. When I took a look at their full-year 2021 results my impression was that it was doable (would add ~2-2.5x leverage in terms of debt/EBITDA), but it's a little bit of a stretch and not exactly prudent. As I remarked earlier in this thread or the other ones, every time I read about the financials of Man Utd I can't help but think "what a shitty business". Not United specifically but football clubs in general, the ROI on incremental spend be it player purchases or stadium improvements is so so low.

From a cold financial perspective no one should really buy it unless they think that the growth in revenues in the next 5-10 years will be such to justify another 3-5x increase in the club value, plus you're really counting on a greater fool to come along to buy it from you. It's really tough to justify just on the basis of the cash flows you can get out of it as an owner/shareholder.
This. Football is no longer an “investment“ at the very top level. It has to be a passion project supported by deep pocketed owners.

The hope of a super league is fading quickly for these US funds.
 

Giggsyking

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I know he touched on the Glazers but why weren't the criteria of these posts made during the countless years of ownership ? Why all of a sudden is the moral compass thrown into question when United have some of the worst business owners in sport. The biggest club in England and one of the biggest global sport attractions acquired with leveraged financials and not once has Delaney, the Athletic etc made consistent statements to ridicule the owners.

These journalists had no issue having contacts with members of staff during the periods of United's inconsistency, they monetized the clubs disorder having absolutely no issues having their mutual networks to publicize their media thus making articles about player feelings, dressing room antics that they obtained through leaks, managerial unrest etc and negativity now all of a sudden they care enough about the perception of United as it's a golden standard in sport.
Easy, hypocrisy. Those so called "journalists" happy to collect their paychecks every month from Russian oligarchs and Saudi royals, but they have the audacity to lecture us about morality. The British media is one of the most biased medias in the world. Those fecking media clowns were clapping and dancing for Blair while he immorally invaded another country. People's memory too short to remember the dirty work these media outlet where doing to lay the ground for Blair to invade and destroy another country. The Sun, The Times, even the left leaning paper the Guardian was dancing to the war drums and were pushing for why the UK should go to war in Iraq. Shameless.
 

sglowrider

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This. Football is no longer an “investment“ at the very top level. It has to be a passion project supported by deep pocketed owners.

The hope of a super league is fading quickly for these US funds.
I said the same thing 400 pages ago but from a different angle. For an investment of £6 billion quid, your lowest expectation of return/yield will be that of a T-bill. Thats 4-5%.

That's £240-300 million annually. That's almost 40-45% of United's current total revenues annually. It makes no sense or you have some magic business case that nobody has thought about at all. So there will be the Jack Walkers of the world that we can hope for (but what happened to the club after!!) Or we have someone like the Qataris, or Dubhais who use the land bank both around United or better still at their home country to develop United-themed properties like sporting facilities to virtual/holographic OT @ Doha to bring the stadium to Dubai or Qatar -- to get some sort of sembles of a proper return.
 
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BEST No7

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According to who? Plenty of matchgoers would be happy with a Qatari takeover, although plenty have reservations about it too. Same for Ratcliffe

General sentiment is anyone apart from the Glazers will do
Exactly. And most United fans couldn't give a flying feck about what happens in Qatar, tonight is what we care about!!
 

jm99

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People are gonna have to come to terms with the idea that anything we win under a Qatari ownership will forever come with an asterisk for the majority of people. Whether that's fair or not won't matter.
You do know that our previous years of domination are attributed to Howard Webb and fergie time by rival fans? No matter what we do, we won't get credit from other teams
 

UDontMessWith24

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People are gonna have to come to terms with the idea that anything we win under a Qatari ownership will forever come with an asterisk for the majority of people. Whether that's fair or not won't matter.
The same people that watched us get destroyed from within by the arguably the greatest grift in football history? The same people that didn't breath a word about "the soul of football" when it was obvious to the world what those parasitic criminals were blatantly and overtly doing to the club? Serve me their tears cold please.
 

Tarrou

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All I want is for you to explain how 16% will have more control than the other 84%. It's that simple, but you don't seem able to do that. I wonder why?
I already explained it. 76% of shares are listed on the stock exchange.

of the non listed shares, they own three quarters so are the biggest shareholder by far

this is how public companies work, most of the stock is owned by the public and a board is put it place to be the custodian of the company and protect the interests of the shareholders and company

Hence why Elon still controls Tesla with only 13% of the shares

I really don’t believe that you didn’t know this and I think you’re just pretending to play dumb

just please stop pestering me, and the others too, you’re being extremely disengenous here and everyone can see through it
 

Grande

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Let me ask you a question? What political gain have the City owners got from owning Man City?

If you are unaware, Qatar and UK have signed up to 45bn deal for investment and all sorts, how is purchasing Manutd helping them politically when they are already there?
Let me tell you, then: Abu Dhabi, like Qatar, is ruled by a family based dictatorship which have built up wealth on the back of huge oil findings and a kafala system of exploiting and deceiving migrant workers devoid of citicen rights. Free speech and free press is banned by the City owners. Well aware of the short perspective of oil richness, they have started a diversification process aimed at transforming their money into other forms of wealth without having to relinquish power, give inhabitantsrights as citizens or stop persecuting and torturing their own people for political reasons. To succeed in that, they deemmit necessary to simultaneously invest in varius Western and international projects, and to make their oppressing dictatorship more palatable and attractive as business partners, they are investing in sports to make some people get used to them, others to defend them. This ploy has been used by most dictatorships since the early days of Rome, it’s not really very unusual as PR stunts for oppressors. Abu Dhabi has in fact been so succesfull with this project that now even people who hated them intensely for all sorts of reason, willuse them as a beacon for how Man United should be used similarily. Do you now see more of what political gain they get?

I’m sure you do not really believe they just do it for the fun and banter.