Okay? Shaw scored against City when we broke their 22 game winning streak and now he can't even get into a team which isn't very good. Very strange logic
Cody Gakpo | OFFICIAL: Liverpool player
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You can hold any view you wish, no need to start being dramatic. You contested a poster saying certain players were not good enough by mentioning they have scored a few goals lately. I interjected and said that recent goals wouldn’t or shouldn’t shape anyone’s opinion, whatever it may be, on players they have watched weekly for years. If someone thinks they are good enough then cool, and if not, then cool - but the fact that Rashford scored against Arsenal bears no relevance. He’s scored for us before too. And will score for us again, whether or not someone sees him as ‘good enough’.
Which is indeed, entirely reasonable.
It's relevant in that under the current manager they have been good enough. Pretty much everything of Rashford and Sancho's professional careers thus far - last season aside - has been good enough to be a United player; Sancho certainly, people will argue fairly about Rashford as he did have a very poor spell prior to last season but in equally, he was playing every game with an injury and was putting numbers on the board despite poor performances. It's a big season for both of them and I appreciate there are multiple performance factors to look at when judging a player but on the face of it scoring goals or creating goals is hardly a bad trait to have for an attacking player, and in the three years before last season Rashford averaged 19 goals & 12 assists I think with Sancho averaging 16 goals & 20 assists. Numbers that would suggest they are worth persevering with given they are 24 & 22 years old and we have brought in a coach renowned for his attacking play, particularly his attacking play from wide areas. Especially given both have started life under him with reasonable performances and numbers. As such I don't think it's fair to generically say; "they aren't good enough" without justification.
Antony, we don't know yet, but scoring in his only league game to date is hardly a bad start. He's another young player and one who the manager knows very well. The price tag is obviously a headline but that's not his fault and it's not something I tend to focus on with players, but I don't see how it's reasonable for anyone to say he's not good enough at this moment in time.
We've been watching Rashford for about 6-7 years now, I think we can say with near certainty he isn't good enough (and by good enough I mean a player who can be a starter in a title winning xi). While he's devastating vs teams who give him space in behind, his movement, decision making and creativity vs teams who sit back is severely lacking. You can point to his age but that's not really a great indicator of how much development he has left since he's played a tonne of football already.
As for Sancho, I really couldn't care less what he's done in the bundesliga. He's slow, has terrible stamina, isn't a fantastic passer or dribbler and is horrific at using his body to protect the ball. Seems fairly obvious that he isn't ever going to be at the level of a starter in a title winning team when he lacks in so many key areas for a winger or forward.
On Antony, it's more understandable that people want to give him time but having watched some of his ajax and Brazil footage along with his short United career so far, I have serious serious reservations about him.
Shiny new toy syndrome.
United need a right winger- united buys Sancho.
Fans- oh another right footer who prefers to play on the left
United need a right winger- united buy Antony (left footed right winger).
Some fans- oh but Cody Gakpo ( right footed left winger) is putting up good numbers, I want I want!!.
United need a right winger- united buys Sancho.
Fans- oh another right footer who prefers to play on the left
United need a right winger- united buy Antony (left footed right winger).
Some fans- oh but Cody Gakpo ( right footed left winger) is putting up good numbers, I want I want!!.
Ah right, Sancho, Rashford and Antony aren't good enough. Nice one. Bet you get paid for those genius opinions
I’m totally shocked that this is the same player I watched three times in the CL Qualifiers as he looked League 1 level!
Dude, what?
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I think the people who are excited now are so due to how good he looks through the middle, where we need players, for the national team.
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Hopefully we can sign him for reasonable fee next summer, and get rid of Martial and his enormous salary.
Antony, Sancho, Rashford, Gakpo, Elanga and some youngsters (Garnacho, Amad) for next seasons.
Antony, Sancho, Rashford, Gakpo, Elanga and some youngsters (Garnacho, Amad) for next seasons.
Shocks me how people keep including elanga as one for the future. Elanga needs alot of serious work and he has some issues that will never be fixed. If we are thinking of Gakpo, its cheaper to just sell Elanga and promote some other youth player
IMO he is a decent squad option to have. You also need some hard working players to follow tactical instructions of managers and do some dirty work.
And he still has age on his side, so I don't see why he shouldn't have a place in the squad.
I can see him having a trajectory peak of current Memphis too. He tanked here for various reasons, but Memphis Depay has levelled out to an overall good or decent player. Whichever sort of turn of phrase you want to rank a player who will provide you will a solid return of G/A but is probably missing a little something to be a serious option for a top class player.
I think that's a fair ranking for Memphis, and I personally think that's the way Gakpo will go. A smart signing if he's there for the right fee and a side is in need of a wide left forward with great striking ability.
International (nations league) football is hardly the highest barometer.
Conversely, Rashford har pretty great stats vs the top teams in the league going on from his debut.
Before anyone feel like interjecting with «he runs really fast, and gets space vs top teams», just no. That’s not enough, he has the mentality, and is able to improvise. Just think if Ten Hag makes him a huge part of the system coupled with his previous mentioned qualities?
He’s probably been a bigger disappointment than anyone considering the level he briefly showed (close to the top of the top imo). I’m with @JB7 especially our attackers needs to be given a fair shake.
That isn't really 'conversely' or in any contradiction to what I have said. Ultimately, we have had the opportunity to watch Rashford in our team weekly for about 6 years. Some people think he's up to the standard required, others will think he is not. Neither of those people have, or at least should have based their views on whether he scored a brace last week, or three years ago at the Etihad. There is no unanimous view on him, and there are plenty who think he isn't up to it. That view would have been formed over time is all I'm saying, so if that is the view someone holds, I doubt the fact that he's scored 3 goals this season is a factor. That's literally the sum of all I am saying. I haven't even forwarded personal views of my own, because I am currently unsure on all of them for different reasons. I accept that there are many who will think they are good enough, I'll just be surprised if it was because Antony scored against Arsenal, for example. If it is, then I think there is a good chance those people may flip-flop with their view on the matter.
I think he could be better than Depay in terms of all round game at this age. Personal opinion.
He’s a clever player.
But also shouldn’t be ignored that he can step up and when surrounded with better players is a good performer too.
Gakpo can only do so much for PSV by himself in fact I think it’s borderline ridiculous what people are expecting him to have done at 21-23 for a relatively speaking smaller club that isn’t a regular European competitor.
He’s an incredibly good player given his context, age and ability and when put into better sides like the NT he’s fitted in well.
The bolded part was really what I was getting at, and yes, it’s converesly to the point the original poster made, it was just such a worthless post replying to, while yours actually had substance.
Saying they are definitely good enough, or not good enough at this time is just rather pointless imo. If we aren’t even able to accept the new situation at the club (ETH) and let some time pass in this new environment before jumping to conclusions I just find it funny talking in absolutes.
I see the logic in that. That's a fair point to take.
RE: the PSV in Europe stuff - again, fair. But also, just on a totally individual performance basis, he was pretty damn bad in all of the CL qualifiers this year. You don't have to expect him to put the whole team on his back, but a couple of his games against Rangers and Monaco weren't even cracking a 6/10.
It'll be interesting to see what he can do against Arsenal this season. Didn't realise they were in the same group.
I agree his performances were poor by his standard but it wasn’t like PSV as a unit were performing well and Gakpo was the outlier the whole team struggled.
Forward players always will rely on the ball getting to them in good positions. Gakpo has proven when this happens with him he’s an incredibly good goal threat and can assist too.
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PSV will want almost double the price they wanted in the summer for him because of his current form
Will be good to see him in the games against Arsenal and Ajax as well as in the World Cup if he gets a run out against stronger teams there. It's the only way to judge his quality, really.
Very hard to get too excited about him getting 200 goal contributions against FC Volendam and Go Ahead Eagles or whatever otherwise.
Very hard to get too excited about him getting 200 goal contributions against FC Volendam and Go Ahead Eagles or whatever otherwise.
The Sun saying "they believe" we've agreed personal terms with him... no evidence, no quotes, bugger all - unless I missed that in the story. Also if the De Jong situation is anything to go by we don't seem to bother talking to our targets...
Because of Rashford. I can't see this transfer ever happening
Because of Martials injuries, I can see this happening in January
We were reported to have agreed terms with him in the summer and were ready to buy him if Antony bid failed and some reports saying we wanted both. But a lot of people are just regurgitating the summer personal terms agreement we had with him.
Don't think he played particularly well for Holland, partly because he played as a no 10 but kept making plays on the flanks. He really needs to improve on that (as Memphis did).
Not gooooood enough for United lads.
Good. I hope we get this done in January. Ten Hag can easily shift him to a CF, which is exactly what we need.
Not sure if serious or not, but I'm kinda getting sick of all the Ajax fans talking up heir shite players and not rating the only (obvious) gem PSV has. They're not Feyenoord ffs.
What shite players are you talking about? Ive been more than on point with Martinez and Malacia.
Are you talking about Timber in this case? Cause he is fecking great, don’t think anybody that watches football can deny it.
Do you watch ED? Do you watch our NT? Gapko is promising but he is far far from the finished product. Always bottles in the big matches as well.
He has an atrocious record in Europe and hasn’t even been in the CL. Always disappears in EL games.
I see in your comment above you’ve seen him vs Belgium, but you still rate him?
His ballcontrol is mediocre, he sucks at simple linkup play, he does have a decent shot and a brilliant corner, thats it.
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If he's used as a striker I think he could be a big success here, his attributes don't strike me as someone who could make a consistent impact for us on the wings though.
Simons might be a gem. I like him as a player.
Im not an Ajax or PSV Fan, i follow the Eredivisie and follow my local club FC Groningen but i dont really want Manchester United to sign Gakpo. I thought Bergwijn and Malen were both better players and both of them failed when they left PSV. Atleast Ajax players get some CL games where PSV just seems determined on not having their players play in the CL.
100% agree. Simons is an exciting prospect for sure!
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Recent comments from Murtough seem to suggest no further purchases until summer.
G/A every 32mins… but yeah he might not make the step up so let’s look elsewhere for a goal scoring forward.
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