What is xenophobic about pointing out censorship, the infringement of civil liberties and the Uyghur genocide? Those are facts. And I'm sorry but moaning about people being critical of the recent upsurge in flagshagging does smack of empty Reform jingoism, whether you like it or not.
Cold War against China?
- Thread starter VorZakone
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Also, due to technical issues we couldn't put a notice up for the previous episode which was about the game against Bournemouth and other stuff. If you'd like to listen to it, click here.
That's exactly the point though, it's not xenophobic, but they are literally points Reform made too (on censorship etc - Farage "I don't want to live in China" quotes about face recognition cameras everywhere) so are you calling yourself a reform jingoist as well? Whether you like it or not.
Edit: and this ends in serious danger of being an argument about UK politics instead of directing it towards your extremely valid concerns about civil liberty and genocide, so please don't think I'm deliberately derailing this or trying to be any kind of apologist of any kind about policy in China. It's just difficult to reconcile our endless inwards self hate with various media and political entities villifying China to the degree they are. That's my original point, call it "jingoistic" if you like but that's a ridiculous over simplification.
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You're basically saying we cannot criticize China because we have a lot of mistreatment of our own liberties?
Absolutely mental take.
You're basically saying Phil can't criticize Paul for being a serial killer because Phil once punched some guy whilst drunk.
The scale, the horror, the absolute level of brutality is not on the same order of magnitude.
- Britain does not forcibly, by design, make social mobility impossible for ethnic minorities with an internal migration system that is designed to benefit Han Chinese
- Britain has never executed people for basically saying they don't like a sitting politician.
- Britain does not put ethnic minorities in "re-education camps".
- Britain does not create a society where ethnic minorities, by design, are kept poor. Where education and healthcare is determined by the colour of your skin. Where if you are Han you get free stuff but not if you're Manchu.
Hey, here's a fun fact:
In China, around 10% of the ethnicity are minorities who are not Han.
There are no politiburo members who are ethnic minorities.
States and provinces, especially in the Western provinces which are majority ethnic minorities are forcibly led by Han outsiders with the goal of Hanification.
In China, around 10% of the ethnicity are minorities who are not Han.
There are no politiburo members who are ethnic minorities.
States and provinces, especially in the Western provinces which are majority ethnic minorities are forcibly led by Han outsiders with the goal of Hanification.
Point taken, I can't argue with that
Although a vague pushback I'd make is "the West has been and still is only too happy to make use of the cheaper products supplied by that authorianism". And though the thought process might have originally been "once China tastes the benefit of capitalism, it will be gentrified and become more a global partner rather than double down on its xenophobic self interest" but instead, the West seems to have become much more China like post COVID (I think the arguments about lockdowns around the time were "how are the West going to be able to do what China did with the lockdowns and halt the progress of this thing" and they gave it their best shot and now seem to have a taste for it.)But yes - the Western slant on those measures and the ones today are paltry when compared with the CCP measures on racism and liberty. Just my general disillusionment creeping in. For one possible take on a future China hegemon one can look at their behaviour towards the Philippines.
https://media.defense.gov/2025/Dec/...OLVING-THE-PEOPLES-REPUBLIC-OF-CHINA-2025.PDF
DoD's report on China has come out with some very interesting points that basically back up the points I've made:
Reiterating what I said: Their fleet makes no sense with what their claimed strategic goal is.
I don't know what else to really add here other than the DoD have come out themselves and said that what China are doing is a direct threat to the US home land.
Guess the DoD are all conspiracy theorist delusional people too eh?
DoD's report on China has come out with some very interesting points that basically back up the points I've made:
Reiterating what I said: Their fleet makes no sense with what their claimed strategic goal is.
I don't know what else to really add here other than the DoD have come out themselves and said that what China are doing is a direct threat to the US home land.
Guess the DoD are all conspiracy theorist delusional people too eh?
Yep, that aircraft carrier is going to have to do some heavy lifting to invade the US, whilst the rest of the military lack the ability to even invade Taiwan.....
You might have missed the part when the report says this:
Seriously read the report first before calling everyone who thinks China is a threat a delusional idiot.
Lack of amphibious options is just their strategy of going, "We'll achieve fait accompli in Taiwan through overmatch". 9 carriers in 2035 is just so obvious what they're trying to do.
China doing wargaming exercises for invasion of Mexico followed by Southern Sweep up to the US border.
This was captured yesterday.
On Live state TV
China holds military drills and it seems the drills are a response to recent arms sales to Taiwan.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c87l7xjp235o
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c87l7xjp235o
The drills are also impacting international flights to Taiwan. This is having material impact (financial costs) on Taiwan, no?
https://focustaiwan.tw/society/202512290023
@Yakuza_devils
Dubious claims about Uighurs and Priests? Mate, what are you talking about. It's pretty much confirmed by the Vatican regarding the priests.
Also, genocide denial is not a good look for you.
Here, there's even a wikipedia page about it|:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps
As for organ transplant speed:
https://www.thearticle.com/the-terrifying-truth-behind-chinese-organ-transplantation
Dubious claims about Uighurs and Priests? Mate, what are you talking about. It's pretty much confirmed by the Vatican regarding the priests.
Also, genocide denial is not a good look for you.
Here, there's even a wikipedia page about it|:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps
As for organ transplant speed:
https://www.thearticle.com/the-terrifying-truth-behind-chinese-organ-transplantation
Mate, as I said I have no interest in debating on this further. I am not a Chinese Citizen. But, I have been working and living in China including frequent visit to rural areas.@Yakuza_devils
Dubious claims about Uighurs and Priests? Mate, what are you talking about. It's pretty much confirmed by the Vatican regarding the priests.
Also, genocide denial is not a good look for you.
Here, there's even a wikipedia page about it|:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps
As for organ transplant speed:
https://www.thearticle.com/the-terrifying-truth-behind-chinese-organ-transplantation
From my experience (in my opinion), China's cities are modern and generally has good standards of living. For rural areas, it has slower pace and things are cheaper. And the recent transformations was good and fast paced to further improve rural people's life.
As for sources of news and reports, there are many different sources out there with different perspectives. It's obvious that we won't change each other mind. I am in no position to confirm or deny anything with absolute certainty. Let's leave it at that. Cheers!
https://www.dawn.com/news/1969826/11-executed-in-china-over-links-to-myanmar-scams
China executed 11 people linked telecom scam operations, on Thursday, state media reported, as Beijing toughens its response to the sprawling, transnational industry.
China executed 11 people linked telecom scam operations, on Thursday, state media reported, as Beijing toughens its response to the sprawling, transnational industry.
Oh I forgot to post something here.
3 more Generals of the China Joint Staff Command Headquarters have been fired and arrested, including the Commander in Chief of Chinese Armed Forces. Zhang Youxia, Vice Chair of the CMC was accused of spilling nuclear secrets to USA. Which is obviously nonsense but eh.
This leaves their Command structure at the very top consisting of 2 people now:
1) Xi Jing Ping
2) Some random guy I know nothing about.
So yeah, their entire command structure of China's military is basically Xi Jing Ping's control now. Not exactly a tell tale sign of competency but feel free to score own goals as USA scores own goals of their own.
3 more Generals of the China Joint Staff Command Headquarters have been fired and arrested, including the Commander in Chief of Chinese Armed Forces. Zhang Youxia, Vice Chair of the CMC was accused of spilling nuclear secrets to USA. Which is obviously nonsense but eh.
This leaves their Command structure at the very top consisting of 2 people now:
1) Xi Jing Ping
2) Some random guy I know nothing about.
So yeah, their entire command structure of China's military is basically Xi Jing Ping's control now. Not exactly a tell tale sign of competency but feel free to score own goals as USA scores own goals of their own.
On China's aircraft carrier program.
Ruptures in China’s Leadership Could Be Due to Paranoia and Power Plays
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/03/us/politics/china-xi-military-purge.html
I should have posted my initial reply in this thread since the China talk veers off topic to the Iran thread.
I don't think that's relevant really as neither the US nor China is interested in martyrdom in any way. Both have been governed by rational actors and at least in regards to US-China relations I don't see any evidence of that changing, even with the current US regime. As I said, even a complete nutjob like Hegseth is obsessed with the middle east for his stupid end times BS. Obviously we can't totally predict what might happen in the future but I don't really see any realistic situation where that changes in the foreseeable future.
I don't think that's relevant really as neither the US nor China is interested in martyrdom in any way. Both have been governed by rational actors and at least in regards to US-China relations I don't see any evidence of that changing, even with the current US regime. As I said, even a complete nutjob like Hegseth is obsessed with the middle east for his stupid end times BS. Obviously we can't totally predict what might happen in the future but I don't really see any realistic situation where that changes in the foreseeable future.
I hope you are right, there are so many overlapping interests.
I agree neither China or US appear interested in exerting anything except commercial dominance. However, the so called 'spheres of interest' speculation is lurking in the background, especially how the central interests can secure or underpin that dominance.
However even in this scenario there is the Taiwan question, just what would the US do if China attacked Taiwan; also why would China attack Taiwan? Maybe if the US (through an actor/intermediary) attempted to stop/curtailed China's domination of the South China Seas.
The further you move away from the central characters interests and bring in other interests, the more likely the deviation in rationale and the likelihood of 'cause and effect' playing a part; special interests get embroiled and the focal point can move. E.G. China's treatment of the Uyghurs (mostly Muslim-ethnic) is believed by many to be close to genocide, the US is among many countries to have accused China of genocide in Xinjiang.
China states that its actions in such matters are anti-terrorism activities and they point to the prosperity and peace brought to this area via such activities...... so nothing to see here then?
[NB would argue there is overlap between this thread and Iran, but if the mods are on your tail fairdo's]
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What the US and its allies can do is to stifle Chinese oil imports by blockading the Straits of Malacca, its narrowest point the Philip Channel is only <2 nautical miles wide, much narrower than the Strait of Hormuz.
China cannot sustain a lengthy invasion against Taiwan if they're reliant on fuel imports, plus they're surrounded by US allies and bases in Japan, South Korea, Australia, India who will come to Taiwan's aid. To reduce their reliance on the Malacca chokepoint, China is constructing the Gwadar-Kashgar oil pipepline that allows them to import oil directly from the Persian Gulf via Pakistan. They also have oil pipelines from Kazakhstan, a Power of Siberia gas pipeline from Russia and another possible upcoming Altai gas pipeline.
Nevertheless a Chinese invasion of Taiwan could end very poorly, there are too many unpredictable factors given that the PLA last fought a war in the 1970s in Vietnam. China has been playing the long game and needs to continue bringing Taiwan into its sphere of influence while the US focuses on the Western hemisphere, via social media, soft power, tourism, trade, and economic reliance. The main worry is that Xi may see Trump's regime-change interventions in Cuba, Iran, Venezuela (all Chinese "allies") as a sign that they need to make a move on Taiwan whilst the US is overextended and moving assets like aircraft carriers and missile interceptors to the Gulf, which is what the US is doing this exact moment as supplies dwindle.
It's not close to genocide, it's basically cultural genocide in terms of forcing Uyghurs to moderate their Muslim beliefs and learn Mandarin in order to be better integrated into society, business, and the jobs market. France also setup reeducation camps for radical Muslims in 2015 before closing it due to human rights concerns. There was definitely a point in time where China thought they had the ingenious solution to radical Islam and publicised it by inviting the BBC to visit schools where Uyghurs learnt Mandarin and Western media started framing it as a "cultural genocide", then CIA-linked media outlets like Radio Free Asia started publicising it as an "Uyghur genocide" to deliberately imply there were mass killings or something more sinister and Western companies then banned the use of Xinjiang cotton due to forced labour. All of it was mostly CIA and Western propaganda to spur support for Uyghur separatism, the same way the CIA funded the Mujahideen and Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan in the 1980s to topple the Soviet-backed regime, the same way the CIA setup Timber Sycamore as a program to arm and train Syrian rebels to topple Assad's regime (many Uyghurs also travelled to Syria to fight for IS and may have been influenced by CIA), and the same way the US tried to encourage the Iraqi Kurds to rebel in 1991 and again in Iran in March 2026.
Point being, the Uyghurs had been identified by CIA as a Chinese Muslim minority group that could be funded, trained, armed, and instigated to rebel within China to cause unrest, terrorism, or regional conflict, thus weakening the CCP from within. After the Syrian War, Chinese intelligence began close surveillance of Uyghurs who fought on the side of the rebels and were keen to fight for the separatist cause in China, which led to Xinjiang becoming a pseudo police state for a time. Up until that point, Uyghurs were not required to learn Mandarin in school and could abstain from the One Child Policy (many Uyghur celebrities in China come from large families unlike their Chinese peers) like other minorities. The reeducation camps have mostly closed after Covid and Xinjiang is apparently now marketed as a tourist destination, neverthetheless Xinjiang is a key corridor for the Belt and Road Initiative and supplies oil, gas, coal thus secession is a lost cause.
On Reddit there was a famous AMA thread by an American Uyghur activist named Rushan Abbas because users realised she worked for the CIA and started bombarding questions on her work in Guantanamo interrogating Uyghur 911 suspects.
That's not to say Uyghurs did not face oppression, they definitely do as a Muslim minority in Western China where economic opportunities are scarcer. Today there are many rural ethnic groups in China that still cannot speak Mandarin, e.g. Tibetan herders that live on the fringes of Chinese society and do not involve themselves in business or higher education. One herder went viral on Chinese social media and started learning Mandarin only as an adult in order to be social media influencer and TV star. There are probably millions of minorities including Uyghurs, Tibetans, Kazakhs, Kyrgyzs who still do not speak Mandarin and find it too hard to learn, and have the same economic realities as someone who isn't English fluent in USA or UK. That said, it's also patently clear the CIA has close links to the Uyghur separatist movement and will fund, train, arm, support insurgent or terrorist activities in order to weaken the CCP's grip on power. The CIA playbook to weaken enemy regimes is well-documented and quite successful even if it does result in unintended consequences e.g. the September 11 attacks and possibly the 2015 Erawan Shrine bombing.
Any thoughts on this?
Here's a France24 article.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...f-chinese-boats-mass-at-sea-raising-questions
What sort of data can they get from a dummy run using fishing boats I wonder?
Also, who was piloting the boards? Military or simple fishermen being forced to do it?
Also, who was piloting the boards? Military or simple fishermen being forced to do it?
I find it very strange to do something like this in general - these ships are incredible sitting ducks in a conflict and ultimately going to sustain huge casualties. I also don't see what 1000 fisherman achieves that 2 Type 52's do not.
Australian businessman found guilty of working for suspected Chinese spies
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx28zl37x9po