College Football 2020/21

WI_Red

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adexkola said:
A better debate would be Saban compared to other college coaches. He's one ahead of Bryant but don't know enough about football from that era.
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Disclaimer: I abhor Alabama football, so I say the below begrudgingly.

In terms of all time greats I guess the only ones I can think of that should be in his tier are
Bryant Bryant (disqualified for being a racist)
Joe Paterno (disqualified for being cool with child rape)
Bobby Bowden
Eddie Robinson
 

MrMarcello

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adexkola said:
A better debate would be Saban compared to other college coaches. He's one ahead of Bryant but don't know enough about football from that era.
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For me it's like Wooden - those eras were completely different in athleticism, scholarships, science, rules, etc. Pencilhead Finebaum was saying he's easily surpassed Bryant as this era is a tougher win, more complex in all facets, and there's an actual playoff now days. He cited one title for Bryant was awarded prior to a bowl game versus #2 Notre Dame, which Alabama lost yet the decision from UPI still stood (UPI thereafter changed it's decision to after the bowl games).

One contention I'd make in favor of Bryant is I think the talent was more widespread in those days whereas today it's basically consumed by a handful of schools. Basically, in any given year a school could go 10-0/11-0, there were no conference title games, and if ranked high enough had a shot at a Natty. That said, conferences were locked into bowls which meant the top 2-5 did not always meet on the field. And rankings were subjective to coaches and journalists voting which had extreme bias (bias still exists today IMO). There were worthy schools ranked below 3rd that may have won a bowl game (or playoff) against higher ranked opponents in those days which would have produced different results in some years.

Today, while it's nice for an Oregon or a TCU or a Central Florida to enter a discussion of "what if" but in all honesty those schools would be annihilated in a playoff (Oregon has). 30-60 years ago not so much. Now you have to play in a Power 5 to get a shot. I believe D1A should split to two levels and award two champions. Let's just form four super conferences of 16 and let them compete for a title, and the rest can drop to a second level. I'd prefer conference title games were scrapped but that's a money maker so moot opinion.
 

WI_Red

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MrMarcello said:
For me it's like Wooden - those eras were completely different in athleticism, scholarships, science, rules, etc. Pencilhead Finebaum was saying he's easily surpassed Bryant as this era is a tougher win, more complex in all facets, and there's an actual playoff now days. He cited one title for Bryant was awarded prior to a bowl game versus #2 Notre Dame, which Alabama lost yet the decision from UPI still stood (UPI thereafter changed it's decision to after the bowl games).

One contention I'd make in favor of Bryant is I think the talent was more widespread in those days whereas today it's basically consumed by a handful of schools. Basically, in any given year a school could go 10-0/11-0, there were no conference title games, and if ranked high enough had a shot at a Natty. That said, conferences were locked into bowls which meant the top 2-5 did not always meet on the field. And rankings were subjective to coaches and journalists voting which had extreme bias (bias still exists today IMO). There were worthy schools ranked below 3rd that may have won a bowl game (or playoff) against higher ranked opponents in those days which would have produced different results in some years.

Today, while it's nice for an Oregon or a TCU or a Central Florida to enter a discussion of "what if" but in all honesty those schools would be annihilated in a playoff (Oregon has). 30-60 years ago not so much. Now you have to play in a Power 5 to get a shot. I believe D1A should split to two levels and award two champions. Let's just form four super conferences of 16 and let them compete for a title, and the rest can drop to a second level. I'd prefer conference title games were scrapped but that's a money maker so moot opinion.
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Bryant belongs in the same category as Rupp. That category is a dumpster.
 

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Man of Leisure said:
So Belichick vs Saban, who’s been more impressive? For me, it’s Belichick and it’s not even close really, but argument can be made he’s never won one without Brady while Saban has done it consistently with different players.
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The only person who one can compare Saban with is Bryant, and since Saban did it with multiple teams and now has one more, he comes out ahead in the debate. He also completely rebuilt the infrastructure of a Bama program that had been languishing in the glory of the past for much of the previous 25 years since Bear retired in 82.

Granted BB did something similar in NE, but comparing the two doesn't really work since the dynamics of running college v pro programs are so different.
 
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WI_Red

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Raoul said:
The only person who one can compare Saban with is Bryant, and since Saban did it with multiple teams and now has one more, he comes out ahead in the debate. He also completely rebuilt the infrastructure of a Bama program that had been languishing in the glory of the past for much of the previous 25 years since Bear retired in 83.

Granted BB did something similar in NE, but comparing the two doesn't really work since the dynamics of running college v pro programs are so different.
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My view of Bryant is clouded by all the shit I heard about him while in Bama, but I think he is greatly overrated. Back in the day Alabama, just as now, had piles of talent. It was only the desegregation of sports (and Bears refusal to do so) that led to his dip in the late 60's. While the story of Cunningham and USC "opening eyes" in 1970 is great and all, it whitewashes the fact that BB had a policy of white only teams up till then. It is absolutely NOT a coincidence in my mind that BB and Rupp were both a Kentucky at the same time. Like minds and all.
 

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WI_Red said:
My view of Bryant is clouded by all the shit I heard about him while in Bama, but I think he is greatly overrated. Back in the day Alabama, just as now, had piles of talent. It was only the desegregation of sports (and Bears refusal to do so) that led to his dip in the late 60's. While the story of Cunningham and USC "opening eyes" in 1970 is great and all, it whitewashes the fact that BB had a policy of white only teams up till then. It is absolutely NOT a coincidence in my mind that BB and Rupp were both a Kentucky at the same time. Like minds and all.
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I lived in Bama between 83-86 and had to deal with the post Bear expectations of success under Perkins, which of course never panned out. The Bama love was so ridiculous that I became an Auburn fan at the time to rebel against it all....which worked out very nicely since one Vincent Edward Jackson was just hitting stride at that time.
 

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Raoul said:
I lived in Bama between 83-86 and had to deal with the post Bear expectations of success under Perkins, which of course never panned out. The Bama love was so ridiculous that I became an Auburn fan at the time to rebel against it all....which worked out very nicely since one Vincent Edward Jackson was just hitting stride at that time.
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It is nauseating down there. Luckily my wife is an Auburn alum, so I didn't have to worry about having any Bama in the family. The angst and self entitlement was bad enough during the Shula days, so I can not even imagine what is was under Perkins. Where about in Bama were you? The state changed so much in the 18 years I was there that it would probably be unrecognizable (well, except in the rural areas, those are still racist shitholes) if you had not been back since 86.
 

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WI_Red said:
It is nauseating down there. Luckily my wife is an Auburn alum, so I didn't have to worry about having any Bama in the family. The angst and self entitlement was bad enough during the Shula days, so I can not even imagine what is was under Perkins. Where about in Bama were you? The state changed so much in the 18 years I was there that it would probably be unrecognizable (well, except in the rural areas, those are still racist shitholes) if you had not been back since 86.
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Enterprise....near Dothan. Only 90 minutes away from the redneck riviera (Panama City).
 

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WI_Red said:
SE Alabama? Good lord man, you deserve a medal for getting out alive.
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It was surreal. I drove through there recently while driving cross country and the place was a total dump compared to how it looked in the 80s.
 

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I would drive through Alabama on my way to/from Texas and it's like the land that time forgot. Made my first venture through Mobile back in October but sadly did not get to experience the locals. I never knew the freeway in Mobile goes under the inlet there.
 

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Raoul said:
It was surreal. I drove through there recently while driving cross country and the place was a total dump compared to how it looked in the 80s.
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Alabama really is a microcosm for what is going on. The rural areas are degrading and sliding further and further into poverty, while the big cities (especially B'Ham, Huntsville, and Mobile) are experiencing a revitalization. This turns the rural areas into fertile Trump hunting grounds because of the perceived (and real) loss of white wealth and power in the state. This is similar to GA, with the difference being that the AL suburbs are still Trump country. If that starts to change I think you will see Bama flip.
 

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WI_Red said:
Disclaimer: I abhor Alabama football, so I say the below begrudgingly.

In terms of all time greats I guess the only ones I can think of that should be in his tier are
Bryant Bryant (disqualified for being a racist)
Joe Paterno (disqualified for being cool with child rape)
Bobby Bowden
Eddie Robinson
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Potentially Spurrier as well, this coming from an FSU alum. But wouldn’t be arsed with omitting him.

Bowden, Robinson, & Saban are definitely First Growth college football coaches. The two you omitted would easily be the others if they didn’t have those massive negatives.
 

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WI_Red said:
My view of Bryant is clouded by all the shit I heard about him while in Bama, but I think he is greatly overrated. Back in the day Alabama, just as now, had piles of talent. It was only the desegregation of sports (and Bears refusal to do so) that led to his dip in the late 60's. While the story of Cunningham and USC "opening eyes" in 1970 is great and all, it whitewashes the fact that BB had a policy of white only teams up till then. It is absolutely NOT a coincidence in my mind that BB and Rupp were both a Kentucky at the same time. Like minds and all.
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That era also suffered from the juggernauts literally signing everybody just to keep them off the other team’s roster. It’s tough to compare an Oklahoma or Alabama team of the 50s & 60s when they literally had 130+ players on their roster.
 

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Spurrier lost his shot at all-time greatness by taking that poisoned chalice job in Washington. And when he returned to the collegiate level he chose golf courses over legitimate contender. That said, when he was (inevitably) fired from Washington I wanted Texas to fire Mack and hire Spurrier. He'd have dominated at Texas. My evidence for firing Mack in 2004 - four straight defeats to OU, two by the worst margins in school history, multiple limp dick performances in big games, and that epic fart against Colorado in 2001 that cost Texas a shot at Miami for the title (the year Nebraska got in despite not even playing in the Big XII title game). Spurrier should have arrived in 2004 to inherit Vince Young and pushed from there. Probably recruits RG3 and others to follow from Young and McCoy. Might still be there fighting with Saban every year for all-time dominance.
 

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MrMarcello said:
Spurrier lost his shot at all-time greatness by taking that poisoned chalice job in Washington. And when he returned to the collegiate level he chose golf courses over legitimate contender. That said, when he was (inevitably) fired from Washington I wanted Texas to fire Mack and hire Spurrier. He'd have dominated at Texas. My evidence for firing Mack in 2004 - four straight defeats to OU, two by the worst margins in school history, multiple limp dick performances in big games, and that epic fart against Colorado in 2001 that cost Texas a shot at Miami for the title (the year Nebraska got in despite not even playing in the Big XII title game). Spurrier should have arrived in 2004 to inherit Vince Young and pushed from there. Probably recruits RG3 and others to follow from Young and McCoy. Might still be there fighting with Saban every year for all-time dominance.
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To be fair, a golf course distracted Spurrier gave the University of South Carolina the greatest period of success in school history.
 

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This has been going on for years among the larger (particularly SEC) schools. Glad to see someone has finally been caught.

 

WI_Red

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Raoul said:
This has been going on for years among the larger (particularly SEC) schools. Glad to see someone has finally been caught.

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In my mind they are getting punished for being sloppy, not for the payments. When living in Bama it wasn't even hidden that those guys were getting paid (and good for them, they should be), but at least Saban was good at hiding it.
 

WI_Red

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Dabo sighting at US national team game tonight. Apparently his god son is Taylor Tessman.
 

MrMarcello

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Is this thread for the '21 season as well?

Rumors circulating Oklahoma and Texas have reached out to the SEC on joining which would create the first super conference.
 
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