90% of the time...that's just ridiculous isn't it? Might be TAA die hard fan.
Common Misconception about United
- Thread starter ColvaleGoa
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I don't think they watch the games because it's evident what he brings.
Very well might be. The toxicity here has been over the top now after every defeat (or even a draw!)
There's no opnion on this forum I find more consistently stupid than "AWB was a bad signing". Did we overspend for Maguire? Yes. Would we have got top 4 without him? No. James was a cheap punt who we'll probably recoup most of our money on, anyway, he still picked up 3 goals and 6 assists which I don't think is a bad return on investment at all.
All of it sounds highly logical and plausible, as we can all see the evidence in front of us.
what I really like is how Ed and Ole seem to be totally aligned in their decision making, and seem to be jointly accountable for success or failure, hence OGS rightful decision not to criticise his board in media.
am also sufficiently reassured board won’t listen to idiotic knee jerk or OleOut fans.
good read!
Craig Burley and that dick are the most anti United pundits out there. They genuinely get angry when we play well or win and then spew childish crap that anyone who watched the game could dismiss in an instant.
I have no idea who thus Tim feller is, but it’s nice to see he’s taken the concidered effort to piece together many of the important questions that have been raised and use arguments that are easy to confirm.
Seems not many in this thread disagree with most of the points, but I’m sure quite a few posters in a few other threads would have to. A good thing about this is it’s possible to weigh pro and con arguments.
I think most of the points are well put. I have question marks over the Glazers in particular and larger issues like how to balance the need for improvement of Old Trafford and keep ticket prices at a relatively moderate level.
I also question not the Sancho decision this window in particular, but the continual process behind the fact that we’ve lacked a good RW or RF for many years, and it’s not been solved over such an extended period of time.
What I think is fairly evident, is that since around the time when Mourinho was scrapped and Solskjær came, 9 out of 10 of the decisions being made looks sound to Man Utd in the long run. If Solskjær is part of that, then he most certainly has a strong back, and probably a strong backing.
Seems not many in this thread disagree with most of the points, but I’m sure quite a few posters in a few other threads would have to. A good thing about this is it’s possible to weigh pro and con arguments.
I think most of the points are well put. I have question marks over the Glazers in particular and larger issues like how to balance the need for improvement of Old Trafford and keep ticket prices at a relatively moderate level.
I also question not the Sancho decision this window in particular, but the continual process behind the fact that we’ve lacked a good RW or RF for many years, and it’s not been solved over such an extended period of time.
What I think is fairly evident, is that since around the time when Mourinho was scrapped and Solskjær came, 9 out of 10 of the decisions being made looks sound to Man Utd in the long run. If Solskjær is part of that, then he most certainly has a strong back, and probably a strong backing.
I think James has 1 goal and 0 assists since Christmas. But okay, a good signing. Yes, I think if you buy a FB for £50M and you only really have use for him in 10 games a season, then I think it's a pretty poor signing. We could have got...say Lamptey for £5M. Have everyone lost their standard? And since when are spending 1 billion for "trying to reach to 4" when you're like 5th a good signing?
It's not so much that you're completely wrong, it's just that your standards are like you have been supporting Blackburn Rovers. And I have been supporting Manchester United. That's the difference between us. Cavani hasn't shown anything, and that's a fact. He hasn't contributed. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. But he hasn't. His wages are very high also.
I don't know what you even mean. You asked me to say what is wrong with the club, and what is wrong is that a club pays to offload one player. What is also wrong is that we can't sell the players. How can anyone disagree with that? It's our own fault, not anyone else's.
Of course it's a problem giving high wages to players who aren't even first choice and haven't proven themselves. Haven't you learned anything in the last couple of years?
It's a lot of maybes from you. We're 15th in the league. That's where we are.
All one needs to do is look at the squad on the date Ole took over and look at it now.
Night and day.
We could be starting with Fellaini, Sanchez, Lukaku, Young at left back and possibly Eric Dier in midfield and the like if Jose remained in charge. Let that sink in. Ole has gotten rid or approx 10 players none of whom were good enough for us, Lukaku and his trampoline like first touch included.
Ole's miraculous rebalancing of the squad, the harmony/unity now evident within the squad and vast improvement in players such as Rashford, Martial, Fred is just fantastic as he might say himself. The football we now play is also light years ahead of the dour shite we had to endure under Jose and LVG.
He has done and is still doing a wonderful job. We need to be contesting for the big trophies this season, top 4 itself not enough. I believe we will be there or thereabouts come May.
Night and day.
We could be starting with Fellaini, Sanchez, Lukaku, Young at left back and possibly Eric Dier in midfield and the like if Jose remained in charge. Let that sink in. Ole has gotten rid or approx 10 players none of whom were good enough for us, Lukaku and his trampoline like first touch included.
Ole's miraculous rebalancing of the squad, the harmony/unity now evident within the squad and vast improvement in players such as Rashford, Martial, Fred is just fantastic as he might say himself. The football we now play is also light years ahead of the dour shite we had to endure under Jose and LVG.
He has done and is still doing a wonderful job. We need to be contesting for the big trophies this season, top 4 itself not enough. I believe we will be there or thereabouts come May.
City are 13th. Should Pep be sacked? Maybe Klopp also for going from 99 points to being second?
Oh wait, we are only 6 games in, phew.
A common misconception is that all our fans are idiotic glory hunters, which just isn't true. At least 1% of the fan base is relatively clued up.
This club isn't just about trophies and glory hunting you know.
I don't know what that has to do with my text, but okay.
Oh wait. Not even close, heard it's even rising...?
Honestly expecting this thread to talked about United's history, not the current "situations".So I imagine it'll goes something like...
1. George Best's # kit number is 7.
= Wrong.
etc etc
How can you be sure that United is badly run? We have no inside information except from those we trust to have "some" inside information eg the journalists. Except that these journalists, their newspapers, their tweets, are so busy making up dozens of stories everyday we never know what is or isn't true. Journalistic integrity doesn't exist anymore.
We already got one, a guy from Australia. Bought him in last year
Ole's abilities as a manager are more in question than the likes of Jose, Pep, Klopp, Pochettino.
Obviously.
Obviously obviously.
But what is not in question is he is a much, much, much better fit within the club itself.
Obviously.
Obviously obviously.
But what is not in question is he is a much, much, much better fit within the club itself.
There was also a misconception in my country that following United means worshipping a devil and it's very bad especially for teenagers.
And if you think it was okay to follow Chelsea because the crest looks like a lion instead of a devil then you are mistaken because the way the lion is drawn also makes it look like a devil or a lion ghost.
And if you think it was okay to follow Chelsea because the crest looks like a lion instead of a devil then you are mistaken because the way the lion is drawn also makes it look like a devil or a lion ghost.
Agree. He's one of those sports journalists who rarely challenge their beat (in his case maybe understandably enough) and uses that lazy generalization of "narrative" behind any criticism of the club.
Some right wing imams here said it was haram to support United because it has the devil in its crest.
To which I replied, well it's already haram for me to watch United during the last year of Mourinhi season
That Twitter thread is such a crock, complete propaganda and trump-like in its relationship with truth / reality. Biggest wind up ever.
Is this payrolled? I confess to not reading more than what was in the OP. Have we stopped (from today I guess) overspending on players? And from this year onwards stopped extending deals for players who aren't good enough or can't get fit? Have we started (from when the last window closed I guess) to plan ahead? Have we sold all the players who are on huge deals and offer almost nothing?
I remember Ole saying "we're a fantastically well run club", but he would say that, wouldn't he. I don't think any objective observer would honestly say that. The only thing that is presumably meant as a positive I hear that isn't from some mercenary is that the club is maximising its commercial potential. Everything else is incompetence, arrogance, bottomless greed, and naivety. Which seems to accurately describe what's been going on for a long while.
Whether Ole is good enough or not is a far less important question than whether the club is run well, which it definitely has not been.
I remember Ole saying "we're a fantastically well run club", but he would say that, wouldn't he. I don't think any objective observer would honestly say that. The only thing that is presumably meant as a positive I hear that isn't from some mercenary is that the club is maximising its commercial potential. Everything else is incompetence, arrogance, bottomless greed, and naivety. Which seems to accurately describe what's been going on for a long while.
Whether Ole is good enough or not is a far less important question than whether the club is run well, which it definitely has not been.
To be fair new contract for deadwood players are no longer prolonged since Ole's arrival. There are signs of improvisation by the club to not hold on to players that once had potential and value.
Is there anything else worth seeking as a fan?
What does this mean? If you are saying that we haven't given extensions to deadwood since Ole's arrival, then I have two words for you: Phil Jones.
The knowledge that your team is moving in the right direction for once in 7 long years.
Success will come when the foundations are there. Success without these would be transient and fleeting (like under Jose with 2nd/EL). Compare from that time we have a better squad/morale/attacking intent..and dare I say Ed has got it right more with Ole than he did all 7 years since. All positives that will lead will success in the long run. It's very easy to just look at the final picture and form opinions.
Just the one compared the to multitude before.. I'd say that's progress. Others can keep pointing to that one name and stick stubbornly to their assumptions. Cheers
What is this? I feel bad for you if you can't find joy in supporting you own team. And please don't come back with : its the truth.. Its not.
You are having doubts about Cavani who has not started a game. Standards? Expecting United to win the title every year after we haven't won since 12-13? That's isn't maintaining standards..its delusional thinking. Saying we're 15th having a game in hand but ignoring we finished 3rd a few months back? AWB universally recognized as having had a great season is bad 90% of the time? I understand you maybe pessimistic but it's your POV not the truth and very immature at that.
Also re getting rid of deadwoods we've done so better than in the past. Things are not perfect but overall it is positive. I feel bad you can't see that.
Excellent
Our recruitment process still seems poor. The players we’re getting are much better to be fair, but I still don’t rate the way we seem to go about it. The Sancho saga was a bit embarrassing, we should’ve ended that long before the window closed. The constant last-minute nature of deals is a bit worrying also. Comes across as haphazard and desperate.
By the skin of our teeth, requiring a result on the literal last game of the season. We stumbled to that top four finish and only managed because all the other contestants were also flinging away points at the end. We have yet to be a comfortable top 4 side under Ole. It's disingenuous to call it "completely debunked" given our overall level during his tenure. We've had isolated pockets of good performances scattered amongst long stretches of failure.
How many weeks have we spent inside the top 4 under Ole? How many outside? I don't care to tally it up right now, but unless a club spends at the very minimum 50% of its time within the top 4 (and it should really be more like 75%), it is not a top 4 side. Scraping by on one single occasion does not "completely debunk" that. Look where we are now, and where we were throughout most of last season.
At my job, if I'm behind schedule throughout most of the year but manage in the last couple of months to catch up and briefly stay on schedule, I am not suddenly regarded as an on-schedule employee. I am at best given one last chance to see if I can keep up, and if not, I'm sacked.
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You know, the glory hunter moniker gets thrown around a lot on this forum and it's honestly baffling. It's misguided at best and delusional at worst. It's been seven years and we've won very little. I doubt there are many of them left! Actual glory hunters (of the Premier League variety) would have fecked off to support City long ago and now they're probably shouting "Y-N-W-A." Idiotic fans? Sure.
Who cares? Top 4 is top 4.
If you can ignore the facts like how many key players are injured for the majority part of the season and managed to get top 4, why bother how we stumbled?
Lamptey wasn't available to us when awb was bought. He was a Chelsea academy player who even Chelsea themselves didn't know how good he was, seeing as they sold him immediately. Our right back options were a retired Valencia and a frustrating Ashley young. Wan bissaka was a huge prospect from direct premier league competitors and for that price, it was very reasonable.
I'm sorry awb doesn't suit your hipster definition of what your dream fullback looks like but to me and a large majority of us he's been immense. He'll surely be remembered as the only defender who got consistently slated for actually defending. With awb we have the luxury of shutting down an entire wing from our opponents and it's unfortunate you can't see that. He's not perfect but he is very easily one of the best players we have at what he does
What a delusional take on AWB. How many goals or assists have he made? You compare with the best teams, with the TAA, with Robertson, with Davies, with Digne, with Chillwel, you see the laughable comparison. In 90% of the games, United totally dominates possession and the game overall. How useful is AWB then? It's 50 million and you expect he should be able to defend? Yes, he's very good at defending 1 on 1 against PSG once a year. I don't fecking care what prospect he was. We are supposed to be a well-run club, you don't spend that kind of money on these kinds of players if you are. Lamptey was an example. You have 100 scouts. Find a right-back who can control a ball. We are not Crystal Palace where to defend your goal is enough (and I don't think he always does that particularly well, yes he is good in 1on1 but positional play among other things, he's not the greatest there)
AWB is quality. Very good signing.
Maguire is a bang average defender. Not a bad signing, and probably better than what we had at the time, but for a fee higher than van Dijk's, I'd expect a player that would be in the same ballpark as van Dijk - which Maguire isn't.
James is a waste of a squad number, regardless of how inexpensive he was. He offers little. He doesn't even offer actual pace because he never leaves opponents in the dirt behind him, so what he's still doing here does baffle me.
The fact that he scored a couple of goals in his first five(?) games does precisely nothing to suggest that he's a good signing or useful 'squad option'.
Good analysis and I agree with most of it, and have made a lot of the same points myself. I do think he is a bit soft on our 20/21 transfer window though; we did muck it up, even if we got some good players in at the end of the day. I agree with a lot of what he says about the investment, that the recruitment strategy has improved, and that hiring a DOF wouldn't just solve everything. I think he lets Matt Judge off very lightly though.
I do think he also is a little too dismissive of the arguments against Ole's coaching and tactics as well. Only the most lazy analysis would claim Ole is a bad tactical coach, but I don't think it's enough to point out the tactical victories he's had in big games, as a lot of those played to our strengths. My concern with Ole (at least over the last 18 months) has always been that he is not sophisticated enough in his attaching approach, and that our performances dip rapidly when one or two key players are out of form.
Still, nice to see someone make note of a lot of the false narratives that are perpetuated about United.
I do think he also is a little too dismissive of the arguments against Ole's coaching and tactics as well. Only the most lazy analysis would claim Ole is a bad tactical coach, but I don't think it's enough to point out the tactical victories he's had in big games, as a lot of those played to our strengths. My concern with Ole (at least over the last 18 months) has always been that he is not sophisticated enough in his attaching approach, and that our performances dip rapidly when one or two key players are out of form.
Still, nice to see someone make note of a lot of the false narratives that are perpetuated about United.
How many goals less have we conceded due to having AWB (hard to quantify) but from watching the game you can surely see the benefits.
And this 90% of games bullshit is a joke and you know it. City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs for starters are 10 games of a season. Add in the tough away fixtures and rising teams of Everton, Leicester, Wolves etc and we're getting much closer to 50% of games.
Add in the CL where in our group we've got the best side from the French league and the side top of the Bundesliga so that's 4/6, go further in that competition and every game becomes another tough game adding more and more value to a player, who helped us get there.