Conservative MP David Amess stabbed to death

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it’s depressing that this thread is not simply expressions of regret and horror. Any attempt to “explain” is intellectually and morally bankrupt.
I'd go further. Conflating Tory austerity with religious terrorism is more than just confused, it's plain dishonest. And as anyone outside the left bubble can see that it will actually lose the left votes, not gain them.

@Wibble had it right, killing an MP is an attack on our democracy and we should all stand behind that, however much one might disapprove of that particular person's politics.
 

Jericholyte2

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I'd go further. Conflating Tory austerity with religious terrorism is more than just confused, it's plain dishonest. And as anyone outside the left bubble can see that it will actually lose the left votes, not gain them.

@Wibble had it right, killing an MP is an attack on our democracy and we should all stand behind that, however much one might disapprove of that particular person's politics.
Except that things are never that black and white and the belief that there are absolutes like this don’t help any of our current political issues.

The austerity measures over the last decade will have driven people to their lowest ebbs. Some will have carried on and made the best of it, some will have had various mental health issue because of it, including suicide, and some will have developed angry, violent resentment against them. Out of that an incredibly tiny proportion would have acted on it (in a similar proportion to religious extremists I’d imagine).
 

DJ Jeff

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It was a satirical post made before he had died mocking the very sentiment that then showed up here (of course, from the Kind Empathetic People) of "well it's terrible but he deserved to die because austerity", dressed up in more words by the way chap

I'm more conservative than anyone on this site and the doublethink people have for the humanity of their political enemies is depressing
 

arnie_ni

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Except that things are never that black and white and the belief that there are absolutes like this don’t help any of our current political issues.

The austerity measures over the last decade will have driven people to their lowest ebbs. Some will have carried on and made the best of it, some will have had various mental health issue because of it, including suicide, and some will have developed angry, violent resentment against them. Out of that an incredibly tiny proportion would have acted on it (in a similar proportion to religious extremists I’d imagine).
So you're saying you think this fella killed this MP because of the Conservatives austerity measures?
 

Gehrman

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So you're saying you think this fella killed this MP because of the Conservatives austerity measures?
I dunno how many people have comitted terrorism due austerity measures in europe?
 

Rhyme Animal

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So you're saying you think this fella killed this MP because of the Conservatives austerity measures?
No, he’s saying that political policies that inflict suffering and reduce support can cause people to act extreme in certain instances.

Terrorism and poverty are linked, obviously. Terrorism and suffering are linked. And that’s historically, not just in the present day.

Thousands upon thousands of people have committed suicide due to instability, poverty, lack of support and suffering caused by austerity measures - this is potentially the flip side of that same coin.
 

DOTA

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It was a satirical post made before he had died mocking the very sentiment that then showed up here (of course, from the Kind Empathetic People) of "well it's terrible but he deserved to die because austerity", dressed up in more words by the way chap

I'm more conservative than anyone on this site and the doublethink people have for the humanity of their political enemies is depressing
I knew what you were doing as I recalled you saying something in the Tory shagging thread but figured you deserved the backlash anyway so kept schtum.
 

Fearless

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Nah theres plenty on the last three pages alone who clearly think voting on a 10% cut in school meal budgets 13 years ago or somesuch shite justifies getting stabbed
Agreed. Some posters are using his murder as a platform just to virtue signal some inverted moral high ground when a simple RIP or shutting the feck up would have sufficed.
 

DJ Jeff

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Agreed. Some posters are using his murder as a platform just to virtue signal some inverted moral high ground when a simple RIP or shutting the feck up would have sufficed.
Too afraid to say it outright so the rhetorical condom gets slipped on and you have to listen to absolute bollocks about "the conservative government fomenting this situation"
 

DOTA

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Too afraid to say it outright so the rhetorical condom gets slipped on and you have to listen to absolute bollocks about "the conservative government fomenting this situation"
To be fair, if anyone was of that view, they would know they were quite correct to be afraid to say it outright, as some extremely dumb person demonstrated very early in this thread.
 

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Too afraid to say it outright so the rhetorical condom gets slipped on and you have to listen to absolute bollocks about "the conservative government fomenting this situation"
A man's just died having being stabbed to death in surgery. Was your early contribution not sufficient for you to make your clever satirical point?
 

Jericholyte2

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So you're saying you think this fella killed this MP because of the Conservatives austerity measures?
I’m saying that, given the pressure that said austerity measures have put people under, that an incredibly small percentage would react in the most extreme ways imaginable.

Just as with any ‘extremist’ they have to have had an extreme reaction against something.
 

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clearly not when most people thought I literally believe he deserved to die. that was my fault
As opposed to you actually wanting to make points about rhetorical condoms which was of critical importance?

Your post lacked nuance and was misjudged at least as much as those you wished to pre-empt for, as @Fearless put it with their usual delicacy and tact, "virtue signal(ling) from an inverted moral highground".
 

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It was a satirical post made before he had died mocking the very sentiment that then showed up here (of course, from the Kind Empathetic People) of "well it's terrible but he deserved to die because austerity", dressed up in more words by the way chap

I'm more conservative than anyone on this site and the doublethink people have for the humanity of their political enemies is depressing
Like I believe you, but that is one of the worst thought out plans I have ever come across.

"Yes I got drunk and drove my car into the wall, I did so to mock those who would come later driving drunk and crash into said wall"
 

Gehrman

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clearly not when most people thought I literally believe he deserved to die. that was my fault
Considering another poster managed to invoke Hitler, the third reich, Saddam and Gadaffi in making a point about the tories it's hard to know here on the caf.
 

DJ Jeff

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As opposed to you actually wanting to make points about rhetorical condoms which was of critical importance?

Your post lacked nuance and was misjudged at least as much as those you wished to pre-empt for, as @Fearless put it with their usual delicacy and tact, "virtue signal(ling) from an inverted moral highground".
Lacked nuance because it's tiresome seeing people run the same friend enemy distinction over politics constantly while acting like they are the empathetic ones up against a cohort of cartoonishly evil people

Considering another poster managed to invoke Hitler, the third reich, Saddam and Gadaffi in making a point about the tories it's hard to know here on the caf.
Very predictable on here when the Tories are mentioned
 

Fingeredmouse

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Lacked nuance because it's tiresome seeing people run the same friend enemy distinction over politics constantly while acting like they are the empathetic ones up against a cohort of cartoonishly evil people
Lacked nuance because it was a one line post where you felt you needed to get a pre-emptive dig in thereby undermining your whole fecking point.
 

Mr Pigeon

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There's more posts here about lefties saying he deserved to die for being Tory than there are actual posts saying it. The rank opportunism here is shocking and some of you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to use a man's death for you own political agendas.

From minute zero there were folk in here saying "this is liberal extremism" and "Angela Raynor has a lot to answer for after her scum comments", and when those angles didn't pan out as more information came out we're now on to a comment that was rightfully dealt with and whatever the feck it is you're yapping about now. Sakes.
 

Gehrman

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There's more posts here about lefties saying he deserved to die for being Tory than there are actual posts saying it. The rank opportunism here is shocking and some of you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to use a man's death for you own political agendas.

From minute zero there were folk in here saying "this is liberal extremism" and "Angela Raynor has a lot to answer for after her scum comments", and when those angles didn't pan out as more information came out we're now on to a comment that was rightfully dealt with and whatever the feck it is you're yapping about now. Sakes.
Actually a fair few of posts in this thread is "I don't think he should have been killed, but..."
 

Mr Pigeon

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Actually a fair few of posts in this thread is "I don't think he should have been killed, but..."
For what it's worth I also don't like the "but..." comments either (better be careful or @DJ Jeff will come in with his masterful 4D game of tiddlywinks and accuse me of merely pretending to be human). There's plenty of threads to discuss politics without turning this into one as well.

Tory, Labour, SNP, Greens, whatever. A guy was serving his constituents and was murdered. Didn't agree with his some of his stances, agreed on others - and none of that matters one jot. At the end of the day if someone has a problem with a politician they use their vote, because - even if this was hypothetically a politically motivated assassination - no single person has the right to harm our democracy.

Sir David leaves his family in tatters, it's fecking terrible for them. That's my two pence's worth.
 

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For what it's worth I also don't like the "but..." comments either (better be careful or @DJ Jeff will come in with his masterful 4D game of tiddlywinks and accuse me of merely pretending to be human). There's plenty of threads to discuss politics without turning this into one as well.

Tory, Labour, SNP, Greens, whatever. A guy was serving his constituents and was murdered. Didn't agree with his some of his stances, agreed on others - and none of that matters one jot. At the end of the day if someone has a problem with a politician they use their vote, because - even if this was hypothetically a politically motivated assassination - no single person has the right to harm our democracy.

Sir David leaves his family in tatters, it's fecking terrible for them. That's my two pence's worth.
Nah I think you're genuine about it. My issue is w guys who self identity as Group Empathy vs group Pure Evil trying to dissemble their obvious feeling that this was a just desserts situation and a natural result of being one of the bad guys
 

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For what it's worth I also don't like the "but..." comments either (better be careful or @DJ Jeff will come in with his masterful 4D game of tiddlywinks and accuse me of merely pretending to be human).
Personally I thought your play a bit on the obvious side but looks like you walked it past him ok.
 

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Dreadful analogy

Also I was better off being banned for yesterday's game
Ok the analogy wasn't great, but I can't stress how bad your plan was.

The very first reply in this thread was
Its sad but he deserves to be stabbed for being a tory
And it set the entire narrative for the thread. There's no hint of a satirical point there. Without an explanation from you, or someone knows you well it will be taken in the only it could possibly be taken on the evidence of that sentence.

Your post wasn't to express concern or sympathy for the man, but in your own words

It was a satirical post made before he had died mocking the very sentiment that then showed up here (of course, from the Kind Empathetic People) of "well it's terrible but he deserved to die because austerity", dressed up in more words by the way chap
So before a single reply had been made, you decided to preemptively mock some posts that existed solely within your imagination. Which led to a bunch of posts condemning you under the belief that you were some raging leftist. You derailed the entire thread.

There's more posts here about lefties saying he deserved to die for being Tory than there are actual posts saying it. The rank opportunism here is shocking and some of you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to use a man's death for you own political agendas.
It reeks. There has been deliberate misinterpretation of a lot of posts.
 

glazed

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Nah theres plenty on the last three pages alone who clearly think voting on a 10% cut in school meal budgets 13 years ago or somesuch shite justifies getting stabbed
Killer seems to be a lone wolf with known Islamist views. Amess was a very strong supporter of Israel so wouldn't be surprised if that turns out to be killer's self justification. Nothing to do with austerity or school dinners or even being a Tory.
 

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Now it’s calmed down a bit (hopefully) some of these posts just demonstrate how politics has become a tribal game, like football. Those that were suggesting austerity was to blame which was caused by Labour spending all ghe money we didn’t have should also consider Angela Rayner’s ‘Tory Scum’ comment. In the end, neither of these opinions have anything to do with the murder of the MP. Let it rest now.
 

Jericholyte2

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Now it’s calmed down a bit (hopefully) some of these posts just demonstrate how politics has become a tribal game, like football. Those that were suggesting austerity was to blame which was caused by Labour spending all ghe money we didn’t have should also consider Angela Rayner’s ‘Tory Scum’ comment. In the end, neither of these opinions have anything to do with the murder of the MP. Let it rest now.
So you're celebrating the 'calming down' of the thread by decrying the 'footbalification' of politics, and then making such inflammatory comments like "Those that were suggesting austerity was to blame which was caused by Labour spending all the money we didn’t have..." and suggesting Angela Rayner was to blame.

Interesting.
 
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BarcaSpurs

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Why have Labour and the left caused politics to become so tribalistic and divided?





 

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Margaret Hodge complaining about standards in the chambers today. didnt she once spend a few minutes screaming abuse at Corbyn behind the speakers chair?
 

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Know one of his daughters, very very sad. Poor family.

RIP David.