Agreed, is this really the sort of post we deserve to be subjected to on this Forum?Christ.
Crikey Col, give him a chance to put his own foot in his mouth.
If it turns out the murderer used similar words, then inevitably it will be a major talking point. But then, that's the risk politicians take when they use dehumanising terms for their opponents.Sweet Jesus, now we have people trying to throw this on Angela Rayner's lap?
Did you see his post in the Celebrity Death Pool thread when James Brokenshaw passed away recently?Crikey Col, give him a chance to put his own foot in his mouth.
Very sorry for his loved ones and constituents. I understand he was very well respected and didn't seek higher office. A loss to the country really.
It's baffling that thread has been going on for years on hereDid you see his post in the Celebrity Death Pool thread when James Brokenshaw passed away recently?
Yes. Didn't agree with that but no need for you to up the ante in the CE.Did you see his post in the Celebrity Death Pool thread when James Brokenshaw passed away recently?
Not the thread for this but just have a look at his voting record.Crikey Col, give him a chance to put his own foot in his mouth.
Very sorry for his loved ones and constituents. I understand he was very well respected and didn't seek higher office. A loss to the country really.
I get that the person who committed this crime probably has very strong objections to Tory policy, but debating the merit of that position only serves to validate it and to be honest just comes across as cheap political point scoring.
the bolded was a pretty funny reply to be fair.What a well thought out response. The point is clear: when people in positions of power use unmoderated language to dehumanize people there will be people out there who will react to that. If you disagree, that's fine but I remember many people desperately asking Boris Johnson to moderate his language because there was fear it would encourage violence. You can't really have it both ways, although God knows you'll try.
Let's save the theorising until we actually know what happened and why.
Remarkable that these were posted like an hour apart.If it turns out the murderer used similar words, then inevitably it will be a major talking point. But then, that's the risk politicians take when they use dehumanising terms for their opponents.
I'm hardly going to track that down and then speak ill of the dead. Someone would then lecture me that there's more to being an MP than voting.Not the thread for this but just have a look at his voting record.
I would say that by invoking Hitler, the 3rd Reich, Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi he was absolutely justifying it. Those houldnt really be mentioned in the same breath as the tories.While that may be true or false, I was just pointing out that people were misinterpreting Rhyme's statement (I think @Gehrman and @Sassy Colin are the latest ones). People can agree or disagree with his stance on Champ's statement, but those who are framing his words as if he is anyway justifying what happened today are at best mistaken, or at worst being deliberately obtuse and making a false equivalence
the bolded was a pretty funny reply to be fair.
Johnson has referred to gay men as tank-topped bum boys and muslim women as letterboxes. Groups who face oppression and violence because of their identity. Calling someone scum because you disagree with them being homophobic is different to calling someone scum because of their sexual orientation.
Remarkable that these were posted like an hour apart.
Don't get me wrong, a murder can be political, however it's not a political act.I think Rhyme's point has been misinterpreted. He wasn't arguing what champ said in the context of this thread, but this statement in general
"A working politician does not deserve to be killed, no matter any political views or persuasions"
For example you've mentioned military generals as if that would be a vindicating factor (and I agree), but someone like Goebbels wasn't a military man, and didn't command troops. Some people would definitely say he deserved death based on his political actions and the horror he brought.
Like you said regarding Amess it's a completely different situation, but Rhyme was never arguing that, he was arguing against Champ's statement. In which there will be many different viewpoints.
I would say looking at the long history of politics, that this is tangibly not the case. There might be a personal distinction to you, but the boundaries of the distinction will shift depending on the person.
Regarding the second bit, I think you make a good argument but there's a lot of variables.
He's not at any point said what you're implying here.
Silly comment
There's a difference between the terms traitor and scum. Especially when the term traitor was applied generally to remainers and the term scum was applied specifically to Boris Johnson (regarding racist and homophobic comments which he refuses to apologise for), who is indeed scum.I get that the person who committed this crime probably has very strong objections to Tory policy, but debating the merit of that position only serves to validate it and to be honest just comes across as cheap political point scoring.
What a well thought out response. The point is clear: when people in positions of power use unmoderated language to dehumanize people there will be people out there who will react to that. If you disagree, that's fine but I remember many people desperately asking Boris Johnson to moderate his language because there was fear it would encourage violence. You can't really have it both ways, although God knows you'll try.
Apart from DJ JeffThere’s more posts in this thread from people saying it’s a disgrace that people in this thread are saying he deserved to die than there are posts saying he deserved to die. Which wouldn’t be difficult, because that number is zero.
He didn't invoke them as justifications or comparisons, but as the worst personifications of the "working politician", which was the comment he replied to. I can understand if someone thinks this isn't the thread for such talks or that Rhyme interpreted the word politician too loosely, and @Dante mentioned the disparity in their powers and roles etc, which are all fair points, but it was blatantly clear that Rhyme wasn't saying that Amess was like the aforementioned lot or that he in any way deserved what happened (he's explicitly stated in this thread that he didn't deserve to be attacked or that he was anything like the others).I would say that by invoking Hitler, the 3rd Reich, Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi he was absolutely justifying it. Those houldnt really be mentioned in the same breath as the tories.
That's a fair point! with something less direct than murder, I'd think of something like the anti LGBT policies somewhere like Chechnya for example. Policies enabled within the legal framework, but still seeped in violence.Don't get me wrong, a murder can be political, however it's not a political act.
No murder can be attributed, in my view, as a political action.
It can be however, the consequence of a political stance, but politics in its purest form isn't violent.
Anyhow, I believe this conversation is best served on a day when an MP hasn't been murdered, and when copious amounts of weed is involved.
Who never said anything about him deserving to die. Probably an ill judged comment he didn’t fully mean.Apart from DJ Jeff
Never have so many had the opportunity of self gratifyingly complaining over one stupid post. On the beaches, in the streets, on the CE.Apart from DJ Jeff
"He definitely deserves to be stabbed for being a tory, but I hope he doesn't die".Who never said anything about him deserving to die. Probably an ill judged comment he didn’t fully mean.
Maybe a language issue? He did not do what you first accused him of."He definitely deserves to be stabbed for being a tory, but I hope he doesn't die".
One heat of the moment comment before it was known he had died."He definitely deserves to be stabbed for being a tory, but I hope he doesn't die".
Well no he just made a point that you deserve a literal stabbing for being a tory.Maybe a language issue? He did not do what you first accused him of.
Surgery is terminology for where they meet their constituents.I'm seeing headlines that he was stabbed at surgery? Am I misunderstanding something or was he attacked again in the ward?
Yeah. It's an odd term.I'm seeing headlines that he was stabbed at surgery? Am I misunderstanding something or was he attacked again in the ward?
A political surgery, like one to one meetings they have with their constituents.I'm seeing headlines that he was stabbed at surgery? Am I misunderstanding something or was he attacked again in the ward?
Exactly, let's not gild the lily eh?Well no he just made a point that you deserve a literal stabbing for being a tory.
Never have so many had the opportunity of self gratifyingly complaining over one stupid post. On the beaches, in the streets, on the CE.
I wouldn't call him a politician.Christ.
Surgery is similar to the US town hall meetings.I'm seeing headlines that he was stabbed at surgery? Am I misunderstanding something or was he attacked again in the ward?
Never seen a US town hall meeting but I've met my MP at one of his surgery's one to one before.Surgery is similar to the US town hall meetings.
FfsTweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
What does "African appearance" even mean?
Why, after a violent hate crime, do the media insist on further sowing the seeds for division and hatred?
Would have more respect for the feckers if they just said he is a black man.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
What does "African appearance" even mean?
Why, after a violent hate crime, do the media insist on further sowing the seeds for division and hatred?
Perhaps he meant that tories just deserve a fairly peaceful stabbing. Like a quick stab stab in a shoulder as a gentle reminder that he disagrees with their policies.Exactly, let's not gild the lily eh?
Yeah they're different in that town hall meeting is generally a bunch of people sat while the politician is at the front answering questions whereas our surgeries are one to one (like a GP surgery) but it is the closest comparison I could think of.Never seen a US town hall meeting but I've met my MP at one of his surgery's one to one before.