Our name being used goes back to Fergie's days, it's not a Woodward social media age thing
Constant links to players
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
- Start date
Because we're starting the season today without the reinforcements necessary to challenge? Who's fault is that?
And when Ed spends a record fee on Pogba, I'd hardly call that an achievement. Fair play for backing the manager, but that's the bare minimum he should be doing.
Who knows, probably the fact we had LVG and Jose spend stupid amounts on players who didn't work out.
Again, before you go off on one and blame Ed / the board...
If they don't deliver the players the board are at fault...
When they deliver them and the manager can't get a tune out of them, it bizarrely goes back on them too?
Where exactly is the manager at fault for buying poorly?
As for Pogba, pretty sure our supporters buzzed about his signing at the time for the majority! You are applying hindsight to it, bypassing the manager and putting blame on the guy that delivered the player, Why? It has zero logic to it, where is the blame for the manager using the player poorly or player himself for not performing.
Ed / The board job is to deliver the player, they are not responsible for their performance.
Who said this? There is a reason we've sacked 3 managers you know... Jose got criticism from every quarters for mis-managing players.
And of course if they don't deliver players it's there fault. Who's fault would it be?
You and the majority on here constantly pointing fingers of blame at the wrong culprits.
I mean your first comment is
So why then go back to blaming the guy who signs the cheque and simply gave the manager what he requested?
What are you on about?
I said "I care about the players coming in the doors" I.e. We have only brought one player in so far this summer.
Woody and Co. have been getting a lot of shit for that and they deserve it.
I will ask you once again, who's fault is it that we're starting the season today with only one new signing when every Tom Dick and Harry knows we needed to strengthen more then that?
Well we realistically and honestly don't know who / what exactly is at fault. We don't know what has happened behind closed doors.
We've taken huge hits financially for years over silly player investment for LVG & Jose. That's the players they demanded, they by an large got many of them and huge expense to the club and we are likely paying the price still for those decisions.
Tiny issue of covid as well going on and the fact we lost 28m alone in the opening 11 days of the lockdown should give you an indicator of the financial hit we've taken in the first and second quarters of 2020. There's likely no match day revenue for most of this up coming season too.
It's kinda funny how we all know how truly awful players like Periera, Lingard and Jones are but then expect them to be easily moved on, why? What club would be jumping to sign any of them players unless its for cut price deals. Because we can't move on deadwood like that we then struggle to lower the wage bill, & free up funds for transfers. It isn't as easy as folks like to make out and think its FIFA and hey presto there goes another player.
I'm a huge supporter of Ole and think he is doing things the right way and moving us away from stupid, over paid player investment. We were right to move away from the Reguilon deal with the buy back clause for example and similar right to move away last summer from Dybala and Eriksen. He's clearly being far more cautious than his predecessors.
Our financial calendar year ends on 30th June annually, so in the last 12 months we've signed Maguire for a world record fee and AWB & Bruno for approx 45m apiece. Roughly a 160m investment, by no means to be sniffed at.
We absolutely could do with more, solely cause the previous managers investments have largely failed to produce, had the invested better we wouldn't need to continually invest so much now.
I'm liking that Ole is focusing more long term with a keen eye on the youth coming through at the club. Clearly we are planning and building for the long term here, it isn't just about constant player investment and buying the most expensive new toy every summer, we've been ridiculous in our transfer activity too often and burned for it.
So I've given you plenty of reasons why we might be slower this summer than previously, but yeah run with a narrative its one idea and one alone by all means.
Your whole argument falls down when other clubs (who also exist in times of Covid) who make less money then us are investing more in there team then we are.
And it also falls down when we rather publicly are chasing after Sancho who realistically the club could not have expected to pay any less then 80m for...
And this isn't even about buying a huge name or spending a shit ton of money. It's about finding the right players and bringing them in. We literally just got VDB for £30m so clearly we're not just about "shiny new toys"
Also what are these "huge hits" we've taken under Jose and LVG? Of the big fees paid, We made a fair whack back on ADM and Lukaku, and the rest are still vital parts of our squad?
I think the rumours are probably viewed as a blessing and a curse. Supposedly social interactions and our media presence is a big thing to Ed. As long as our name is out there generating clicks, views, posts or whatever that can be shown to sponsers investors and so on to generate more income for the club.
I doubt the big wigs are really even that bothered about the negative impact that has on how they or the club are viewed as long as they can use it to make bank.
Personally I think most fans can look at a situation and think why would we honestly be in for such a player. I’ve seen Ramos mentioned and seriously can’t believe anyone has ever convinced themselves that there has ever been anything legit behind those rumours.
Same for Bale recently and Thiago. They don’t fit in to the system or what Ole is trying to do for the club.
Think many need to learn to read between the lines and use some common sense.
Think people need to realise as well if the Glazers gave Woodward and Judge Carter Blanche like say Roman has done then these deals would have been done. Unfortunately they do not and have to be creative with the funds they are given to maximise what they can bring in.
We are also a buisness and business’s need to make effi and cost effective decisions. We clearly don’t have the leeway of say a Chelsea or City who can spend 50-60 mil on a dud and not worry as much. Just move him on in a bit and buy again. It’s just not how we do buisness.
It really doesn't
So we aspire to be like Fulham and relegated or Villa fighting off relegation on the final day of the season? Super!
And in this climate 80m for a player is absolutely more than acceptable. They've huge financial difficulties and are being cnuts about the transfer, but he's their player and its their right to be that way...same way we can say its unacceptable to expect 108m up front during covid with no match day revenue going forward for the foreseeable.
Clearly were not and I'm glad you agree, so wouldn't that mean then we are indeed "finding the right players and bringing them in"? Not sure what your issue is here, you've answered your own question.
Take your pick of any of the very expensive transfers we've made since 2013.
Be it ADM, Falcao, Zlatan, Pogba, Rom, Sanchez, Maguire or Bruno... all are "marquee" type signings with big fees and wages attached to them.
The way contracts are structured they are paid out over the course of the contract. For an example folks labelled Zlatan as a "free". His wages however set the club back at least 18m, that's before bonuses and the rest so your probably talking about in the region of 25m on the annual budget right there.
Sanchez was an absolute financial disaster for us and that has only been resolved within the last month. Even with Inter paying a portion of his wage we were still paying for him in another country.
Basically moneyball.
There are so many hidden caveats within a transfer most don't think about and how it affects the clubs numbers annually.
Quit being arrogant/a smart arse and this conversation can continueIt really doesn't
So we aspire to be like Fulham and relegated or Villa fighting off relegation on the final day of the season? Super!
And nevermind Fulham and Villa... What about Arsenal? Chelsea? City? Everton? And soon to be Liverpool, Spurs, Wolves too... And it isn't just money spent, its volume of players being brought on. We've had one... They've all had more.
So if there is 80m to spend Covid can't have ravaged us can it?
The issue is where are these players? Unless our scouts are completely useless... Then surely we have targets and wanted to bring them in before the start of the season?
I realise there is still time but I always think that you should look to do the majority of your business before the start of the season.
Pretty much agree with this.
It's almost like some fans, who live in world of buying things on Amazon and Ebay, think football transfers work the same way.
Last season (2019/20) we were linked with over 100 players in the press. Do fans really think United should come out with 100+ statements every time some reporter spouts crap?
Wait until they arrive for a medical or sign on the dotted line...until then it's just speculation.
Smart or not, its the truth.
Sod Fulham, Villa and the rest! When Everton bought Rooney and a whole new team a couple of seasons back everyone had us dead to rights to finish well behind them, that went great didn't it?
What use is clubs spending all this money for no return on investment? What have Fulham, Villa or even Everton to show for all this investment? Nothing!
We've bought quite a lot of players and most at huge expense, sadly they've simply not worked out and that is on the managers who requested them.
It hasn't helped. Offering 80m is more than fair, if they won't budge then why are we at fault?
It's quite possible we are seeking other alternatives in the mean time to see if they change their stance. They've huge debt as I say and if they want to risk waiting til next summer so be it, that's their choice.
Well we moved on quickly from Reguilon who was only a temporary solution with the buy back clause... Telles is strongly linked now and supposedly nearly a done deal. We shall see though in the next few days what happens.
Agree with you and @Santoryo.
The age of social media communication is the root cause.
Media create any auld BS rumor about the club with no quotes or evidence and it will still generation thousands, if not millions of likes, shares, comments and no one truly questions its merit.
Anytime I think of today's media I always find myself going back to this absolute gem from Denzel Washington... the opening 45 seconds he absolutely destroys the media with a completely honest assessment.
Woodward and the club complaining is a bit rich. The communication with the fans from the CEO / board is absolutely dismal. When is the last time Ed gave an interview? He can't complain about media inventing stories and yet maintain total silence throughout.
Get in front of the microphones and answer some questions for 20 minutes, it's not that hard. Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund bosses seem to do that regularly. And I see billion dollar company CEOs engage with customers at a much higher level than Man Utd do.
Get in front of the microphones and answer some questions for 20 minutes, it's not that hard. Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund bosses seem to do that regularly. And I see billion dollar company CEOs engage with customers at a much higher level than Man Utd do.
In principle it makes sense. And in effect I would like him to be more proactive with the press.
However, virtually all billion dollar CEO's don't have transfer muppets and trolls constantly posting spite and hatred after every word they say. If Woodward DID come out and do regular interviews he would be a target of every dickhead with an internet connection.
Just look at this site as a prime example.
He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
There will always be criticism, but engaging with your fanbase in a constructive way would go a long way to shutting the trolls and diminishing the toxicity around the club.
He can control the narrative as opposed to being controled by it. The current MO of briefing the press and washing the hands if a transfer doesn't happen (plausible deniability and all that) is just cack.
I suggest you re-read my post as no part of it was praising or criticising the way United conduct their transfer business (I happen to think it's a shambles...)
Nor did it "take aim at the entire fanbase" - I referred to "some people" and "had we signed Sancho weeks ago I am 100% certain sections of the fanbase would still be clambering for the next 'big name". Nothing to do with how the club conducts business and everything to do with the mentality of some sections of our fanbase.
No it won't, clubs and agents will still use United's name.
Nowhere close to the same degree or effect. Right now we get linked with everyone because we're weak in so many positions, have basically signed nobody this summer so everyone assumes we'll do something. 1+1=2 sort of thing. If we conclude our business early and address our deficiencies, any rumors would be so obviously fake or inconsequential because we'll have already sorted our problems.
I just don’t understand people getting preoccupied with players we are “linked” with. Just look at who does the fecking linking. Out over over 900 linked players, they have to get a couple right. They didn’t even get that right with our most recent one which emerged without links, or at least hardly.
This is just people allowing themselves to be played by twitter journalists. Take that Sancho thread, every time you pop in there's a new no-name journalist acting in the know. When they have thousands of United fans asking them everyday for the latest they'd rather act in the know than say they don't have a clue what is happening. Checked out of that saga months ago when reports of personal terms being agreed were popping up every 3 days
When we were the best team in Europe circa 2000 and later circa 2008 with no obvious weaknesses in the squad(s) we were still linked with the same amount of players as we are now where it's obviously certain areas of the squad need a serious upgrade if we are to get back to the very top again, it's just how it is.
It's when United's name is not being used we'll need to start worrying.
There’s a difference between being linked then and being linked now. And it’s also not an easy process. If we’re going to conduct our business early and not sign anyone later, we’ll continue to be linked with players which will obviously be fake. But then this practice would die down slowly. Wouldn’t end in a day. But we dither and dither and dither. At this point, every agent and the newspapers know that we’re desperate for signings. Hence the links would be even more. We’ve got to show some efficiency to get out of this mess.
Agents are a separate issue, but are we really desperate for signings, or have the press who seem to take joy in kicking United now we are no longer top dogs got everybody thinking that that's the case with their drip drip drip of transfer rumours?
Even during Fergie's reign, if we weren't going to make signings, he would come out and say that the business is over. Ole recently spoke about looking for 2-3 additions in the squad. The same was spoken at the end of last season as well. The chase for Sancho is pretty well documented by non-sensationalist journalists as well.
I don't deny that the press does accentuate the frustration by continuously pointing out our flaws but that's what the nature of the business is. And its not unique to us. Arsenal have faced a similar situation and so did Liverpool a decade back. With all our rivals strengthening, you can't blame the press for covering the hapless way the club is being run.
I know and I used to hate it when he did, but i'd still be glued to SkySports from 10 in the morning till 3 hours past the deadline hoping he was telling fibs
Point is that we were decisive. We're not decisive anymore. This summer should've been more straightforward considering that we knew the areas that we needed to strengthen and we had to look at the with CL/without CL budget while planning. Targets should've been identified and closed early. Not sure what the thinking there is but in the end, we look like mugs. Woodward and his cronies are so out of their depth that its unbelievable.I know and I used to hate it when he did, but i'd still be glued to SkySports from 10 in the morning till 3 hours past the deadline hoping he was telling fibs
I think we all know who the main target is, and we can't strengthen other areas of the squad until we know for sure how much it's gonna take to seal the deal(not buying this £108m nonsense), and if other areas have to wait till January or next Summer so be it.
That's a suicidal strategy in my opinion. We should've set a target price for Sancho. If he comes, he comes. If he doesn't we move on to other targets.
They hate the club, the player, and the manager. This fan base is toxic and awful these days. Never read so much shite in my life as I have these past few days since losing the first game. At least the match day fans know what it is to support the club.
There's more of a relationship with a club when you pay money to visit a physical stadium, give money to local surrounding businesses, atmosphere, etc. It's easy to blow your lid and say "I'm not going to watch the next game on TV, I'm so livid", rather than a season ticket holder, who is paid up for the season. Think most people have hit the nail on the head with social media age comments. News, services, and now results are demanded to be instant. People talk in extremes about everything, you can't have a reasonable discussion about anything because they've already decided what they think based on some clickbait news article.
Hope all this fan cynicism doesn't stop the club making another raid on the Chinese Premier League.
I'm not sold on Sancho, not at the prices quoted anyway, but who are the gettable alternatives?
Personally i'd go for Federico Chiesa and we'd probably get him for half the eventual Sancho fee.