Conte | Rejects Spurs

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Like Arsenal, that stadium is a millstone around their necks. Vanity project.
Just think of the cheese room and all that NFL revenue.

Still remember Glaston crowing about it.
 

King Kendrick

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Arsenal can surely have a larger budget than Spurs can, and afford to bring in the number of staff he wants. In any case, when a manager of his calibre is available, you throw the money at him.

He might throw his toys after a few seasons, like he did with Juve, Chelsea and Inter, but he'll surely elevate Arsenal during those few seasons and put them in a better position.
He didn’t throw his toys out with Inter. He won the title and they turn around and offer him a discounted contract and knowing that several players are going to be sold. Struggle to think of any person that would accept that offer.
 

el_loco_bielsa

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Even though that's the most reported thing, surely it's about the club not being able to convince any sought after manager that they can be competitive in the short-term.

Hasenhüttl and an established DoF. That would be better than whoring yourself out with no one buying.
Agreed. This has been the the most bizarrely incompetent, scatterbrained, panicky, chaotic search for a manager and some sort of medium term plan that I’ve seen by any club in recent years.

It’s almost as if Levy has completely lost his head after all the missiles that came his way from fans following the ESL debacle followed by Kane’s demand to leave. He’s gone from one of the more competent CEOs to making decision after decision that is utterly harebrained.

1) Pick a decent DOF, one who is competent and used to working with constrained budgets. There is no shortage of candidates who fit the profile and would be happy enough to go to Spurs - rangnick, paratici, zorc, monchi, campos.

2) In discussion with said DOF, pick a suitable manager, one who a) is happy to collaborate with the DOF b) is a competent, tactically astute, progressive coach c) doesn’t demand world class ready made players to achieve his vision d) is willing to be bought cut price unpolished diamonds to coach into better players e) likes working with youth players. Hasenhuttl, De zerbi, Amorim, Marcelo Gallardo, Gerardo Seoane - there are a number of decent options.

3) Agree on a policy to generate income by selling a couple of your big stars and then using that income to build a squad. Flog Kane and Son for £150m+, spend the income wisely.

4) do it all extremely quietly which stops everyone getting the impression you’re at the head of a sinking club with zero leadership scrabbling around for last minute solutions, which is a devastating position to be in if you’re trying to attract a DOF, coach, and a number of promising young players.
 

JPRouve

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Did you state it officially?

Maybe the obvious trick played by levy before season ticket sales?
Some french reporters insinuated that the Pochettino rumours were coming from Levy and that it was an attempt to take the heat off him. Maybe they were right and the Conte saga is the same.
 

roonster09

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Some french reporters insinuated that the Pochettino rumours were coming from Levy and that it was an attempt to take the heat off him. Maybe they were right and the Conte saga is the same.
If it was others, maybe would have given them benefit of doubt but since it's Levy, I wouldn't put past him.

I have doubts on Conte rumors too, all this drama was for season ticket sales maybe, after their lowest season in years.
 

hasanejaz88

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He didn’t throw his toys out with Inter. He won the title and they turn around and offer him a discounted contract and knowing that several players are going to be sold. Struggle to think of any person that would accept that offer.
Didn't know they were offering him less money, I thought he was agitated that they had to sell a couple of players because they were low on cash. Anyways, he still has a reputation of complaining easily, he was complaining about funds last year as well when they got knocked out by Dortmund in the UCL.
 
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He didn’t throw his toys out with Inter. He won the title and they turn around and offer him a discounted contract and knowing that several players are going to be sold. Struggle to think of any person that would accept that offer.
As a result of a global pandemic that threatens to cripple the club. Most people would accept it.
 

B20

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The fact that Conte couldn't see himself winning trophies with the project lined up in front of him puts the writing on the wall for spurs. Top four will be highest achievable goal for them in the coming years and even that will be a challenge.
 

IncyWincySpider

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They were going to be a founding club in the new European super League. Now managers are turning them down because they lack credible ambition. Hell of a turnaround in just a few weeks.
 

Duncspur

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First of all, lets be real. This is Spurs we are talking about, so when we talk about 'what has gone wrong' we need to remember this is a club that hasn't won the league since the days of black and white tv.

As for what is happening to them, it is that they're just at the end of a cycle. From around 2010 they started to build a good team and had a number of good Summers that followed this. Furthermore, this period, particularly 2012-2017 dovetailed with Arsenal accelerating their decline to make them the top North London club which made them look better than they were (as they didn't actually win anything.)

However, whilst they were good from 2010-19 the reality is that they only had about three good Summers in that period and were lucky to get a top quality CF come through the academy. This meant that once the core of the team started aging out, they would be in trouble as their recruitment success was owing to serendipity morr than an actual well thought out process and they were never a club with the resources to spend their way out a a couple of bad windows.

Essentially, Spurs are going back to their historical level.
You do know that football has been going on for quite a long time and that Spurs were actually founded in 1882, don't you? The demise has come under the tenure of Sugar and Levy (so called 'businessmen'). Prior to that, Spurs were the 3rd most successful club in the UK in terms of trophies, were the first club to win a trophy in Europe, had large support, etc, etc. It's the last 20% of their history that is damaging.

So, I'd be quite happy for them to return to their historical level.
 
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If Spurs were rejected by Conte they're unlikely to get a better or equivalent manager. If Kane's decision rests on a new vision with a new top-notch manager, the situation starts to look bleak for Spurs fans.
 
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If Spurs were rejected by Conte they're unlikely to get a better or equivalent manager. If Kane's decision rests on a new vision with a new top-notch manager, the situation starts to look bleak for Spurs fans.
I’ve been saying all along that the manager situation doesn’t really matter to what happens to Kane. it’s mooted that he wants to go even if Poch returns.

but the kicker is that no team will meet spurs’ valuation of him, so as I result I’m sure he will stay. He won’t be happy about it, but there’s very little he can do.
 

Abraxas

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Agreed. This has been the the most bizarrely incompetent, scatterbrained, panicky, chaotic search for a manager and some sort of medium term plan that I’ve seen by any club in recent years.

It’s almost as if Levy has completely lost his head after all the missiles that came his way from fans following the ESL debacle followed by Kane’s demand to leave. He’s gone from one of the more competent CEOs to making decision after decision that is utterly harebrained.

1) Pick a decent DOF, one who is competent and used to working with constrained budgets. There is no shortage of candidates who fit the profile and would be happy enough to go to Spurs - rangnick, paratici, zorc, monchi, campos.

2) In discussion with said DOF, pick a suitable manager, one who a) is happy to collaborate with the DOF b) is a competent, tactically astute, progressive coach c) doesn’t demand world class ready made players to achieve his vision d) is willing to be bought cut price unpolished diamonds to coach into better players e) likes working with youth players. Hasenhuttl, De zerbi, Amorim, Marcelo Gallardo, Gerardo Seoane - there are a number of decent options.

3) Agree on a policy to generate income by selling a couple of your big stars and then using that income to build a squad. Flog Kane and Son for £150m+, spend the income wisely.

4) do it all extremely quietly which stops everyone getting the impression you’re at the head of a sinking club with zero leadership scrabbling around for last minute solutions, which is a devastating position to be in if you’re trying to attract a DOF, coach, and a number of promising young players.
I think it seems as if this is what they really should do as it befits the squad, finances and position they have - they need to build, as clichéd as that is, it's not a great squad.

However I think Levy probably became enamoured with the idea of attracting a manager of Conte's pedigree in an effort to convince Kane his future is at Spurs. He knows that even if he digs his heels in this summer he may not get the best Kane possible if he's not fully onboard. I think it's this combined with something of a panic over the financial situation that probably inspired a move towards managers he perceives as bringing instant gratification. Conte and Mourinho are of this style, however the logic does fall somewhat short when these are managers that demand certain players and budgets.
 

acnumber9

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It’s almost as if Levy has completely lost his head after all the missiles that came his way from fans following the ESL debacle followed by Kane’s demand to leave. He’s gone from one of the more competent CEOs to making decision after decision that is utterly harebrained.
Levy was never one of the more competent CEO’s when it came to the football side. Look at the managers he went through before he struck lucky with Pochettino. Who he only got because we stole Van Gaal at the last minute.

He’s preferred this tough negotiator routine ahead of doing what was best for Spurs. When has his hard negotiating benefitted Spurs? Was it when he got an extra couple of million for Berbatov and ended up replacing him with Frazier Campbell?
 

Bastian

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Agreed. This has been the the most bizarrely incompetent, scatterbrained, panicky, chaotic search for a manager and some sort of medium term plan that I’ve seen by any club in recent years.

It’s almost as if Levy has completely lost his head after all the missiles that came his way from fans following the ESL debacle followed by Kane’s demand to leave. He’s gone from one of the more competent CEOs to making decision after decision that is utterly harebrained.

1) Pick a decent DOF, one who is competent and used to working with constrained budgets. There is no shortage of candidates who fit the profile and would be happy enough to go to Spurs - rangnick, paratici, zorc, monchi, campos.

2) In discussion with said DOF, pick a suitable manager, one who a) is happy to collaborate with the DOF b) is a competent, tactically astute, progressive coach c) doesn’t demand world class ready made players to achieve his vision d) is willing to be bought cut price unpolished diamonds to coach into better players e) likes working with youth players. Hasenhuttl, De zerbi, Amorim, Marcelo Gallardo, Gerardo Seoane - there are a number of decent options.

3) Agree on a policy to generate income by selling a couple of your big stars and then using that income to build a squad. Flog Kane and Son for £150m+, spend the income wisely.

4) do it all extremely quietly which stops everyone getting the impression you’re at the head of a sinking club with zero leadership scrabbling around for last minute solutions, which is a devastating position to be in if you’re trying to attract a DOF, coach, and a number of promising young players.
Yeah, that really would be the sensible approach. I don't think Levy has fallen from grace as such, we're just seeing what he's made of when there are serious expectations. He was comfortable when success was optional. I expected some more gravitas - not knowing anything about him - prior to watching the docu series, but thought he came off as a bit of a blagger. And I tend to think the football world is full of blaggers who maintain some impression that they're very competent.
 
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They need to bring in Howe, he'll have them playing football the right way whilst giving the younger players a chance.
 

Matthew84!

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If Conte waits I'm sure the PSG job will come up soon enough which will match his ambition.
Spurs could go after someone young but perhaps someone like Benitez could come in and make them better, I still think the Southampton boss could do a job there
 

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Levy was never one of the more competent CEO’s when it came to the football side. Look at the managers he went through before he struck lucky with Pochettino. Who he only got because we stole Van Gaal at the last minute.

He’s preferred this tough negotiator routine ahead of doing what was best for Spurs. When has his hard negotiating benefitted Spurs? Was it when he got an extra couple of million for Berbatov and ended up replacing him with Frazier Campbell?
Did he "strike lucky" with Jol and Redknapp too? Could the same not be said for United with SAF?


Which teams/CEOs out there are consistent with them?
 

acnumber9

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Did he "strike lucky" with Jol and Redknapp too? Could the same not be said for United with SAF?


Which teams/CEOs out there are consistent with them?
What did Martin Jol achieve before he was sacked? United picked a manager who had great success and gave him more time than many wanted to gather success. That’s less luck and more good foresight.

To be considered a great football CEO I’d expect them to preside over some success on the field.
 

AneRu

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AVB made some good signings like Eriksen, Lloris, Vertonghen for very low fees. Son and Alderweireld were added under Poch early on with Kane coming through at the same time.

It's very hard to replicate that bunch of signings, let alone for the low fees and is a major part of how they managed to stay up there. I wonder if Son and Alder were already Spurs targets thanks to AVB. AVB spotted KDB as well. Lucas was a rare more recent good signing. Once the juice runs out on those great buys from the early to mid 2010s they've been unable to find the bargains and paid a huge amount for a few so far average players after not buying for a while. They couldn't sustain it in a more expensive market.

The stadium and pandemic afterwards doesn't help but they had lightning strike in a bottle to be in this fortunate position during the EPL TV money boom hence how they even became an ESL founder.

Will be interesting to see if they can bounce back
I think Levy messed up by holding on for far too long to players like Eriksen, Dier, Tobby and Rose when Woodward would have blinked and gave him circa £200m for the lot which he could have used on players like Bruno before got our act together. Those players then declined and now need to be replaced but he no longer has the exciting project, CL football or the hot shot manager to attract young talented players whilst the stadium hasn't pulled it's weight due to the pandemic.
 
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AVB made some good signings like Eriksen, Lloris, Vertonghen for very low fees. Son and Alderweireld were added under Poch early on with Kane coming through at the same time.

It's very hard to replicate that bunch of signings, let alone for the low fees and is a major part of how they managed to stay up there. I wonder if Son and Alder were already Spurs targets thanks to AVB. AVB spotted KDB as well. Lucas was a rare more recent good signing. Once the juice runs out on those great buys from the early to mid 2010s they've been unable to find the bargains and paid a huge amount for a few so far average players after not buying for a while. They couldn't sustain it in a more expensive market.

The stadium and pandemic afterwards doesn't help but they had lightning strike in a bottle to be in this fortunate position during the EPL TV money boom hence how they even became an ESL founder.

Will be interesting to see if they can bounce back
Do we actually think the managers at spurs make the decisions on who to sign? Perhaps Jose might have been an exception, it I imagine most of their signing are by the club, not the manager. So it would be unfair to praise success or failure into the manger.

I might be wrong, but it looks more like the managers are coaches first and foremost at spurs.
 

Halftrack

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Did he "strike lucky" with Jol and Redknapp too? Could the same not be said for United with SAF?
Yes? Jol was brought in to be Santini's assistant, and only got the job because Santini resigned. So Levy accidentally hired a good manager as assistant to a dud, but it worked out okay in the end. Well, until he went ahead and offered Juande Ramos the job while Jol was still in charge.

Harry Redknapp was a fairly safe option, neither luck nor genius was involved in that hiring.
 

cjj

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What did Martin Jol achieve before he was sacked? United picked a manager who had great success and gave him more time than many wanted to gather success. That’s less luck and more good foresight.

To be considered a great football CEO I’d expect them to preside over some success on the field.
Jol lifted the club from actual mid-table to consecutive top-5 finishes. Basically more impressive that the league performances Rodgers is praised for. Success isn't always lifting trophies, and can be progressional.

Very few clubs actually break into the consistent top-four spots, and it's something that takes a lot of time to be maintained. Poch couldn't have done what he did without several other factors, and at least one of those was the progress the previous managers made.

Levy's weakness is hiring volatile managers (like AVB, or Jose) so the Conte thing is a blessing in a heavy disguise right now.
 

Dave Smith

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You do know that football has been going on for quite a long time and that Spurs were actually founded in 1882, don't you? The demise has come under the tenure of Sugar and Levy (so called 'businessmen'). Prior to that, Spurs were the 3rd most successful club in the UK in terms of trophies, were the first club to win a trophy in Europe, had large support, etc, etc. It's the last 20% of their history that is damaging.

So, I'd be quite happy for them to return to their historical level.
How are you counting this? Prior to ENIC, you had two league titles. That meant 12 clubs had more than you. You had never won the European Cup, with Villa and Forest having three between them.

For sure, your FA Cup record was good and you had a couple of UEFA cups. That didn't make you top three. Villa, Arsenal and Everton all had better claims to be in the top 5 owing to their league success; you could possibly even argue Sunderland.

So, when I say going back to your level, I mean 6th'ish which is about right.
 

redshaw

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Do we actually think the managers at spurs make the decisions on who to sign? Perhaps Jose might have been an exception, it I imagine most of their signing are by the club, not the manager. So it would be unfair to praise success or failure into the manger.

I might be wrong, but it looks more like the managers are coaches first and foremost at spurs.

Well yes I should've said that. I've made the point before and asked the question but left it open to either AVB or the club for choosing those players in the past, could be both.
 
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DixieDean

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How are you counting this? Prior to ENIC, you had two league titles. That meant 12 clubs had more than you. You had never won the European Cup, with Villa and Forest having three between them.

For sure, your FA Cup record was good and you had a couple of UEFA cups. That didn't make you top three. Villa, Arsenal and Everton all had better claims to be in the top 5 owing to their league success; you could possibly even argue Sunderland.

So, when I say going back to your level, I mean 6th'ish which is about right.
Indeed. It's hard to believe, now but before the PL started only Liverpool had more league titles than Everton.
 

JebelSherif

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Spurs are in deep shit arent they?

What brought on this decline though? With us and Arsenal it was pretty easy to determine. Two long serving manager legends signed off, but what happened with Spurs?

The decline predated Poch leaving so it cant be just that. So what is it?
It was a mixture of a lot of things :

a) They were too dependant on Kane
b) The decline of Alli
c) Pochettinos horrible transfer record after the summer of 2015 - that summer they signed Son and Alderweireld - after that they spent over 3 seasons without signing a single quality player. They basically wasted £200 million on 8-9 players who weren't good enough.
d) The never replaced Trippier - he wasn't at his best in his last season at Spurs, but they let him go and replaced him with no one.
e) Alderweirld and Vertonghen got too old - they were the rock of the defence - now Spurs don't have a single decent central defender.
Like Arsenal, that stadium is a millstone around their necks. Vanity project.
These are all excellent points & they have been unlucky too (Coronavirus, just after the stadium was built) if you look at the final Premier table, it is interesting that West Ham finished above Spurs (just) as WH were basically given a decent stadium (ditto Man City) whilst Spurs had to pay for theirs.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Jol lifted the club from actual mid-table to consecutive top-5 finishes. Basically more impressive that the league performances Rodgers is praised for. Success isn't always lifting trophies, and can be progressional.

Very few clubs actually break into the consistent top-four spots, and it's something that takes a lot of time to be maintained. Poch couldn't have done what he did without several other factors, and at least one of those was the progress the previous managers made.

Levy's weakness is hiring volatile managers (like AVB, or Jose) so the Conte thing is a blessing in a heavy disguise right now.
Nah mate, its just more Levy BS.
 

Bale Bale Bale

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Spurs need a complete reset rather than skirting around the issue throwing money at big name managers. Kane will have to be sold to fund a rebuild, might be worth cashing in on Son as well if the right offer arrives. Obviously that along with Bale probably not returning is basically taking all of the goals out of the team but they'll have to find them elsewhere in the market. The next couple of years might be tough but it's a necessary pain, focus on young players again who can improve and develop alongside a long-term appointment rather than a quick fix like Jose or Conte.
 

acnumber9

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Jol lifted the club from actual mid-table to consecutive top-5 finishes. Basically more impressive that the league performances Rodgers is praised for. Success isn't always lifting trophies, and can be progressional.

Very few clubs actually break into the consistent top-four spots, and it's something that takes a lot of time to be maintained. Poch couldn't have done what he did without several other factors, and at least one of those was the progress the previous managers made.

Levy's weakness is hiring volatile managers (like AVB, or Jose) so the Conte thing is a blessing in a heavy disguise right now.
Was it actually more impressive though? In Jol’s time there was only four clubs competing for top 4. This was before Man City’s money came on board. What Jol was actually competing against was David Moyes Everton. Let’s remember Rodgers has won a trophy.