Corner run ups at Old Trafford

[marktan]

It's no secret that there's a big decline on the ends of the pitch at Old Trafford - but does anyone else think this negatively affects our corners?

Watching Bruno take the corners today, he noticeably had to stop going backwards once he reached the decline, and as a result he was only able to take two small steps when taking the corners.

The best corners are the ones that Modric, Kroos etc take - long and high up with pace, that drop suddenly in the centre of the box. Bruno's actually very good at these corners - Maguire noticeably gets on to the end of more corners. But the limited run up at Old Trafford I think hinders Bruno - ideally he'd get an extra step in to hit the corners with more power.

Anyone know what's up with the declines anyway? It's a bit weird to have them as they cause players to go flying off the ends of the pitch.

 

[FrankDrebin]

We have zero aerial threat on set-pieces and in-game crossing. Zero. Martial,Rashford,Greenwood do not have the skillset its seems or the anticipation to go in for headings in game,let alone set-pieces.Laughable really.

 

[El Zoido]

I mentioned this in the Bruno thread when people were complaining about his corners not beating the first man. It’s definitely the pitch and I don’t know why we haven’t done anything about it. Anyone who has been pitch side at OT will know it’s a lot steeper when you’re next to it than it looks on TV. I suppose Beckham never had a problem with it, but we really need to look at addressing this problem.

 

[Drawfull]

Are 90 degrees?

Go and find the in-depth article the guardian did years ago on corners and their importance. They're almost irrelevant.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

1. Delivery problems?
Beckham doesn't need to pace that long in taking it.

Same with Shaw and Blind, the two are good in set-piece delivery.
Shaw proved he's that good taking left CK - very consistent, no idea about right CK.
Would also include Pereira here but... also has consistency issue when kicking.

Anyway the three of them only need to take short paces/distance when taking it which would be useful but... their two managers rarely let them take it. Wasn't a problem before at home games. One left, one is on the fringes and Shaw is usually positioned deeper to stop counter attacks from our failed CKs.

Bruno is at his best taking longer pace/stride. Generally no problems in away games, depends on the pitch. Home is usually meh.

2. Players with good aerial threats?
Smalling is the best at attacking the ball in the air during set-piece.
Maguire second, both of them tend to get a touch.
Would also include Rojo here but...
Then McTominay.
Then Pogba actually.

That's it, too few at the moment.

Maguire is the main and usually the only one since strangely Pogba is playing more reserve football (discipline and less risks taking) nowadays even during our set-pieces even-though his ability in the air is actually that good. Most likely that's due to coach's instructions, no wonder why. McT is getting less games nowadays and the other two bests are out. Rojo is also unreliable fitness wise.

 

[Summit]

Anyone know what's up with the declines anyway? It's a bit weird to have them as they cause players to go flying off the ends of the pitch.

Under pitch heating I should imagine?

 

[Le Red]

Are 90 degrees?

Go and find the in-depth article the guardian did years ago on corners and their importance. They're almost irrelevant.

I wish our players read that because we concede a lot of corner goals.
"Irrelevant" smfh

 

[Stevondo8]

I wish our players read that because we concede a lot of corner goals.
"Irrelevant" smfh

What was the stat the popped up during the game yesterday...west ham, Liverpool and someone (Everton? Can’t remember/can’t be bothered to google) top the charts with 10 goals from corners this season...seem pretty relevant, maybe more so to teams less capable from open play but that’s still a large chunk of liverpools goals over the season.

 

[horsechoker]

Our corners are terrible, I don't think Bruno is even good at them. Other teams look more threatening from corners even at Old Trafford.

 

[freeurmind]

If this is a problem, we should just stick to outswingers then.

 

[PieCrust]

I don't buy the pitch slope as a good excuse. Professional footballers should have zero problem putting in a quality set piece most of the time. Bruno just isn't that good at taking corners. Much better at free kicks.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I would say yes but opposition players seem able to take them ok.

 

[Kostov]

David Beckham had no problems with them.

 

[Carl]

Its definitely an impediment, but given how shit we are at corner delivery and how shit we are at defending corners it probably works to our advantage to impeded opposition corner takers in this way.

 

[clarkydaz]

Under pitch heating I should imagine?

that and maybe drainage. They could easily level a platform at each cornerflag though

 

[Sandikan]

1. Delivery problems?
Beckham doesn't need to pace that long in taking it.

Same with Shaw and Blind, the two are good in set-piece delivery.
Shaw proved he's that good taking left CK - very consistent, no idea about right CK.
Would also include Pereira here but... also has consistency issue when kicking.

Anyway the three of them only need to take short paces/distance when taking it which would be useful but... their two managers rarely let them take it. Wasn't a problem before at home games. One left, one is on the fringes and Shaw is usually positioned deeper to stop counter attacks from our failed CKs.

Bruno is at his best taking longer pace/stride. Generally no problems in away games, depends on the pitch. Home is usually meh.

2. Players with good aerial threats?
Smalling is the best at attacking the ball in the air during set-piece.
Maguire second, both of them tend to get a touch.
Would also include Rojo here but...
Then McTominay.
Then Pogba actually.

That's it, too few at the moment.

Maguire is the main and usually the only one since strangely Pogba is playing more reserve football (discipline and less risks taking) nowadays even during our set-pieces even-though his ability in the air is actually that good. Most likely that's due to coach's instructions, no wonder why. McT is getting less games nowadays and the other two bests are out. Rojo is also unreliable fitness wise.

Smalling is strong in the air defensively. But id certainly argue about him being better in an attacking area.

 

[Thiagoal]

If anything it should be an advantage to us as we get to practice taking them with the incline every week. The harsh truth is though that our corners are regularly pathetic while the opposition always seems able to drop the ball on a sixpence. Quite bizarre how poor we are really.

 

[Drawfull]

I wish our players read that because we concede a lot of corner goals.
"Irrelevant" smfh

I didn't say that goals are not scored or conceded from corners, but since the odds of scoring (or conceding) from one are approximately 1:45, they're not particularly relevant in the great scheme of things. Like I said, it's a good article - you should seek it out.

 

[diarm]

I hate the slope off at the edges of our pitch - I've been giving out about it for years.

But if we're going to blame out abysmal corners on it, we'll need to explain a couple of other things:

a) Other sides seems to have less issue taking successful corners at Old Trafford.

b) We are equally shite at corners at other grounds.

 

[Gopher Brown]

David Beckham had no problems with them.

The vast majority of Beckham’s corners wouldn’t have led to a shot at goal.

Corners have always been a very low return. It’s very frustrating though

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/a...eir-corner-routines-tactical-analysis-tactics

 

[Lennon7]

Having said that, someone’s dropped a ball right onto Maguire’s head about a 5 times at Old Trafford this season and he’s missed from 6 yards, so there’s that too

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

No, we are no better at taking corners on flat away grounds too.

And visiting players seem to be able to swing in a good delivery too.

 

[freeurmind]

The vast majority of Beckham’s corners wouldn’t have led to a shot at goal.

Corners have always been a very low return. It’s very frustrating though

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/a...eir-corner-routines-tactical-analysis-tactics

That's a solid write-up.

 

[Beaucoup]

Having said that, someone’s dropped a ball right onto Maguire’s head about a 5 times at Old Trafford this season and he’s missed from 6 yards, so there’s that too

It would be harder not to drop a ball onto Maguire's head.

 

[TMDaines]

The vast majority of Beckham’s corners wouldn’t have led to a shot at goal.

Corners have always been a very low return. It’s very frustrating though

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/a...eir-corner-routines-tactical-analysis-tactics

How dare you bring actual analysis into this.

 

[youngrell]

Not sure why Pogba doesn't take them, I bet he could deliver a good cross quite easily.

People will point to his height being important in the box but really how often do you see him win or even challenge for the ball on a corner?

 

[Le Red]

I didn't say that goals are not scored or conceded from corners, but since the odds of scoring (or conceding) from one are approximately 1:45, they're not particularly relevant in the great scheme of things. Like I said, it's a good article - you should seek it out.

Yes they are. Just take a look at how many corners there are in an average football match.
In the end a lot of goals are scored from corners, and the better aerial teams reap the rewards.
It also has to be said that corner pressure is a very common tactic in the late game, specially in knockout formats, which leads to very, very important goals being scored from corners when it matters the most. That's why you'll often see corner goals in high stakes matches. From memory, Man. United, Chelsea, Real Madrid all won UCL finals due to clutch corner goals. That's 3 UCL finals in the last 20 years (at least) where a corner made all the difference.
I've read articles that tried to dwarf the importance of corners before. While the data itself is relevant, the conclusions are often spurious, misinterpret statistics and denote overall lack of football knowledge.
In the grand scheme of things, corner kicks are pretty much alive. And kicking...

 

[El Zoido]

Even if a corner only leads to one goal a season it’s worth it. It could win you a game, save a point, be the goal that wins you the league (Steve Bruce equaliser vs. Sheffield Wednesday, anyone?). Elite football is fine margins, anything that gives you even the slightest advantage is vital. So yes we should take corners seriously.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

I find it astonishing that a lot of professional footballers, especially ones playing for a club like Manchester United, can’t cross a football. At that level a player shouldn’t need some sort of special run up just to put the ball into a decent area.

 

[Cheimoon]

Yes they are. Just take a look at how many corners there are in an average football match.
In the end a lot of goals are scored from corners, and the better aerial teams reap the rewards.
It also has to be said that corner pressure is a very common tactic in the late game, specially in knockout formats, which leads to very, very important goals being scored from corners when it matters the most. That's why you'll often see corner goals in high stakes matches. From memory, Man. United, Chelsea, Real Madrid all won UCL finals due to clutch corner goals. That's 3 UCL finals in the last 20 years (at least) where a corner made all the difference.
I've read articles that tried to dwarf the importance of corners before. While the data itself is relevant, the conclusions are often spurious, misinterpret statistics and denote overall lack of football knowledge.
In the grand scheme of things, corner kicks are pretty much alive. And kicking...

Confirmation bias. Any statistical analysis of corners shows that they give a poor return for having possession of the ball that far up the pitch. Also, given that the attacking entire team is out of shape when living up for a corner delivery, the attacking team is particularly vulnerable to a counter once the lose the ball. There might be different dynamics if you have a team of great headers or at the end of a game, when everyone's getting nervous and even goalkeepers storm forwards; but generally speaking, whipping the ball into the box from a corner is not likely to help your team much.

What amazes me, though, is that we now have all these stats and a lot of coaches that are really attuned to learning from stats, but we have yet to see a real change in the way any team takes corners. Maybe there is just no quick better way, and no-one wants to disappoint the fans by simply recycling possession and starting a normal attack from a corner situation?

 

[The United]

I don't buy the pitch slope as a good excuse. Professional footballers should have zero problem putting in a quality set piece most of the time. Bruno just isn't that good at taking corners. Much better at free kicks.

He actually has a decent delivery. Maguire got the ball many times but just not good at directing it into the net.

 

[Le Red]

Confirmation bias. Any statistical analysis of corners shows that they give a poor return for having possession of the ball that far up the pitch. Also, given that the attacking entire team is out of shape when living up for a corner delivery, the attacking team is particularly vulnerable to a counter once the lose the ball. There might be different dynamics if you have a team of great headers or at the end of a game, when everyone's getting nervous and even goalkeepers storm forwards; but generally speaking, whipping the ball into the box from a corner is not likely to help your team much.

What amazes me, though, is that we now have all these stats and a lot of coaches that are really attuned to learning from stats, but we have yet to see a real change in the way any team takes corners. Maybe there is just no quick better way, and no-one wants to disappoint the fans by simply recycling possession and starting a normal attack from a corner situation?

I'm not implying corners are better than open play chances. What they are is far from irrelevant or unimportant.
They remain a crucial part of the game and not knowing how to score or defend from them is a big deal.
Anyone who watched our matches knows how many points we lost due to our corner weakness, even though it reflects a bigger issue that's our weak aerial game.

 

[Fitchett]

The steep drop off is to accommodate under soil heating, drainage and water retention for the pitch sprinkling system.

 

[criticalanalysis]

We're bad at corners not because of personnel but because of tactics and coaching.

We have so many technical and athletic footballers yet our routine for set pieces is just load up the box with zero zonal movement. It's so fecking basic, someone should be sacked for it.

You don't score goals by waiting for a ball standing on your feet with another 20 players in the same area.

You indicate to play short to get people on their toes, moving half a yard out of position, you play it short, play one-twos, load the near and far posts with several occupying the penalty spot, then you have 3-4 on the edge of the box, of which 1 or 2 may run in on the cross or come short or hold their position and close any counter attacks by going for the 2nd/3rd balls. That's how you create space and exploit the positions.

Instead we jut have everyone attacking one ball and then two players on the edge of the box vulnerable for any counter attacks.

Ridiculously cave man and naive.

 

[Johnson Yip]

It's no secret that there's a big decline on the ends of the pitch at Old Trafford - but does anyone else think this negatively affects our corners?

Watching Bruno take the corners today, he noticeably had to stop going backwards once he reached the decline, and as a result he was only able to take two small steps when taking the corners.

The best corners are the ones that Modric, Kroos etc take - long and high up with pace, that drop suddenly in the centre of the box. Bruno's actually very good at these corners - Maguire noticeably gets on to the end of more corners. But the limited run up at Old Trafford I think hinders Bruno - ideally he'd get an extra step in to hit the corners with more power.

Anyone know what's up with the declines anyway? It's a bit weird to have them as they cause players to go flying off the ends of the pitch.

Have we actually had a reconstruction of the Old Trafford pitch since Beckham left?

 

[Denis' cuff]

T

Have we actually had a reconstruction of the Old Trafford pitch since Beckham left?

Theyve been like this since OT was rebuilt after ww2, at least. Never been flat in my lifetime. We should turn it to our own advantage as we should be used to it

 

[Denis' cuff]

The steep drop off is to accommodate under soil heating, drainage and water retention for the pitch sprinkling system.

Bollox. Been like that for donkeys years and long before under soil heating

 

[horsechoker]

Not sure why Pogba doesn't take them, I bet he could deliver a good cross quite easily.

People will point to his height being important in the box but really how often do you see him win or even challenge for the ball on a corner?

I wouldn't mind giving him a go. I'd even give De Gea a go if he could whip in a decent delivery

 

[MadDogg]

David Beckham had no problems with them.

Actually I remember that even with Beckham there used to be quite a few complaints about his corners in his last couple of years. Can't remember if he'd been better than that before that or whether even he used to always struggle.

Bollox. Been like that for donkeys years and long before under soil heating

I believe he's right with about it being for drainage though. That's what was mentioned a few years ago when a few questions came up about it.

 

[diarm]

Bollox. Been like that for donkeys years and long before under soil heating

Undersoil heating was installed at Old Trafford in 1984.