Corners….Why Do Teams Bother?

[Jeppers7]

I can’t remember Manchester United ever regularly scoring from a corner….So why do managers and coaches continue to send defenders up and leave the bare minimum amount of players often non defenders back?

Corners actually seem to provide a better chance for the opposition to break than the offensive team to score, see our goal on Sunday.

Personally I’m a fan of ‘old school’ attack v defend football but as the game becomes more and more micro analysed I do wonder if it will ever change to corners becoming more like throw ins. Teams attempting purely to keep possession and build a chance with more short corners being the norm and teams and players holding shape and possession……What is it about corners that makes it worth the risk?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Just because we don't score corners, doesn't mean others don't? I mean look at half the teams that have played us vs. season and scored/had a good chance from a corner!

 

[Jeppers7]

Just because we don't score corners, doesn't mean others don't? I mean look at half the teams that have played us vs. season and scored/had a good chance from a corner!

Good point

 

[hellhunter]

Anyone know the percentage of corners leading to goals generally? Seem to remember it was very low, something like 3%.

So while they seem to be a decent weapon to use vs United, they're not all that promising in total.

 

[big rons sovereign]

They're easy to defend really. Protect the penalty spot as well as the both posts and the jobs done, In theory. As long as the defenders are marking right, and a keeper that will come out and catch it....
Trouble is we've got Maguire and AWB who have a habit of heading it straight to the opposition.
It makes a lot more sense to play a short one as it makes for a better crossing angle or even the chance to shoot.
I don't remember us scoring many direct since the days of Bruce and Pallister.
Also, I never understood why they always choose inswingers rather than out, surely it's easier to attack and harder to defend?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

When I think of our corners, my first thought is spending years watching Smalling and Maguire meet headers and somehow still never actually managing to score. That has to be a rare gift.

 

[VorZakone]

When I think of our corners, my first thought is spending years watching Smalling and Maguire meet headers and somehow still never actually managing to score. That has to be a rare gift.

Doesn't Maguire do well for England on corners?

 

[LiamB]

The fact Luke Shaw has been taking them for the past 2-3 years is the problem. How many assists does he have from set pieces? I can remember 1 from England in the euros.

 

[André Dominguez]

A well taken outswinging corner is hard to defend.

 

[Oranges038]

Anyone know the percentage of corners leading to goals generally? Seem to remember it was very low, something like 3%.

So while they seem to be a decent weapon to use vs United, they're not all that promising in total.

Something like that. Still, if you get 200 corners a season that's on average 6 goals. A lot of it boils down to poor deliveries, most of the time the ball doesn't even get into the 6 yard box.

They're easy to defend really. Protect the penalty spot as well as the both posts and the jobs done, In theory. As long as the defenders are marking right, and a keeper that will come out and catch it....
Trouble is we've got Maguire and AWB who have a habit of heading it straight to the opposition.
It makes a lot more sense to play a short one as it makes for a better crossing angle or even the chance to shoot.
I don't remember us scoring many direct since the days of Bruce and Pallister.
Also, I never understood why they always choose inswingers rather than out, surely it's easier to attack and harder to defend?

The stats men say that it's the other way round, more chance of scoring from an in swinger. Something like 2% chance from an outswinger but closer to 3% from an inswinger.

Outswinger to just on the centre edge of the 6 yard box is the one I'd say is hardest to defend. But it has to be a brilliant delivery and very few players are capable of it.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

they don't actually bother. which IS the problem. nothing about most corners looks like any serious time is spent practicing them tactically

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Didn't we score a load of goals from corners in SAF's last season? That season when Evra suddenly decided he'd become a huge aerial threat....

 

[Wilt]

Quality of corner kicks?

Seem to remember Utd scoring goals from corners when Giggs or Rooney were taking them.

 

[Paxi]

Didn't we score a load of goals from corners in SAF's last season? That season when Evra suddenly decided he'd become a huge aerial threat....

RvP defensive headers were brilliant but can’t remember how many we scored

 

[kthanksbye]

they don't actually bother. which IS the problem. nothing about most corners looks like any serious time is spent practicing them tactically

That's right, seems to me that most teams throw the big men forward and they stand behind each other pretending to recreate some training drill when in reality it's probably something the players have come up with themselves, also, our corner deliveries are so poor, it's like the player is taking a goal kick, so much air time makes it easy to defend, and when we do try to whip one in with pace, it's cleared by the first man.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Anyone know the percentage of corners leading to goals generally? Seem to remember it was very low, something like 3%.

This season:

West Ham 7.8% (5 goals)
Wolves 7.8% (4 goals)
Arsenal 7.0% (4 goals)
Chelsea 5.9% (4 goals)
Liverpool 5.9% (5 goals)

 

[Norman Brownbutter]

Anyone know the percentage of corners leading to goals generally? Seem to remember it was very low, something like 3%.

So while they seem to be a decent weapon to use vs United, they're not all that promising in total.

During the 16/17 season we had 208 corners and scored 4… 1.9%

but, to be fair. No one else was really banging them in either. City had 249 corners and scored the same amount. 4. 1.5%

West Brom did the best with 15 goals scored out of 149 corners. 10.1%

Seems the logic is that better teams get more chances, more corners. And because of that the percentage is always worse as they can’t score every time. Middlesbrough scored 4 as well, but their percentage is better as they only had 132 corners.

 

[romufc]

Its clear in big tight games, set pieces make a difference. If you look at title winners over the years, they get clutch goals with set pieces.

Liverpool, City, Chelsea and even United when it came to winning titles, the big games sometimes are separated with a corner.

 

[Withnail]

they don't actually bother. which IS the problem. nothing about most corners looks like any serious time is spent practicing them tactically

Yeah it just seems to be lump it into the mixer, if you get it past the first man that is.

From what he's said, I presume a lot more work will be done on set pieces under RR.

 

[WeePat]

Short corner. Recycle possession. Problem solved.

 

[Withnail]

During the 16/17 season we had 208 corners and scored 4… 1.9%

but, to be fair. No one else was really banging them in either. City had 249 corners and scored the same amount. 4. 1.5%

West Brom did the best with 15 goals scored out of 149 corners. 10.1%

Seems the logic is that better teams get more chances, more corners. And because of that the percentage is always worse as they can’t score every time. Middlesbrough scored 4 as well, but their percentage is better as they only had 132 corners.

If it was purely down to getting more or less corners, surely the % would be similar no matter how many you got. You aren't less likely to score from a corner because you already scored from a corner.

The lower to mid-table teams spend a lot more time working on set-pieces as it's often their best chance to score especially against better opposition.

 

[DWelbz19]

They’re super low percentage, sure, but the alternative is going short and recycling possession which is unlikely to lead to a chance. I guess the rationale is at least a corner is a dead ball to whip in and give it a try

 

[FootballHQ]

Quality of corner kicks?

Seem to remember Utd scoring goals from corners when Giggs or Rooney were taking them.

Depends on the CBs really. Vidic used to be good for 4-5 a season whereas Ferdinand only scored once a season or even less than that.

We had great success in those times under Martin O'Neill. Young whipping them in with pace and Martin Laursen would get on the end of so much and score 5 a season.

So many corners don't beat the first man if opposition stick a tall striker on the front post. Then you have many more teams taking short corners to try to drag opponents out of the box so that makes sending CBs up a little bit redundant.

I'm amazed all corners aren't just inswingers towards the front post as only needs a flick towards goal and it's difficult to save e.g the Vardy header v Watford. Those floaters towards back post are bizarre as for attempt on goal you need 1) player at back post to win header and direct it back to centre 2) another player to win header and flick it towards goal and 3) another to get a shot/final header in so three direct actions usually needed.

 

[tomaldinho1]

This was from 18/19 season by the Telegraph:

in the Telegraph’s research, which found that, in that 2018-19 season, the most successful Premier League sides from corners included Burnley (7.1 per cent of corners led to goals), who finished 15th, and Brighton (6.4 per cent), who ended up 17th. Both of these top two also sent about 90 per cent of their corners straight into the box, with the obvious aim being their big, burly target men.

As far as how many of these were converted, the Telegraph found that the 146 goals from corners in 2018-19 continued an upward trend in this regard. A decade earlier, for two seasons in succession, just more than 2.5 per cent of corners led to goals, compared to 3.7 in 2018-19. In the early-to-mid-2010s, meanwhile, the Premier League’s goals-from-corners ratio stood at virtually the same level, varying only from as low as 0.32 goals per game to as high as 0.38.

On types of corners:

Research carried out by Paul Power, Stats Perform AI scientist. Power found that teams have a 2.7 per cent chance of scoring from in-swinging corners, compared to 2.2 per cent chance from out-swingers. He also discovered that, while out-swingers lead to more shots (20.9 per cent to 18.6% per cent), shots taken from in-swingers are far likelier to lead to goals (10.8 per cent, compared to 6.5 per cent) because they almost always occur closer to the goal frame itself due to the ball’s direction. Short, quickly-taken corners yield the best results, followed by the in-swinging corner, but there is a heightened risk of not beating the first man. In the Premier League, for instance, just more than half of in-swingers are cleared at the first attempt, while the proportion of corners being crossed directly has also dropped in England’s top-flight from about 90 per cent to little more than 80.

 

[KingCavani]

United fans really asking this...1999 at the Nou Camp ring a bell?

 

[big rons sovereign]

United fans really asking this...1999 at the Nou Camp ring a bell?

97% Beckham, 2% Sherringham, 1% Ole.

 

[JJ12]

I watched that interview with Ralf Rangnick and he said that 30% of all goals come from or just after set pieces.

Expect him to improve our set piece play in attack and defence.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Re: "Corners actually seem to provide a better chance for the opposition to break than the offensive team to score, see our goal on Sunday."

I remember reading explanations a year or two ago about why more teams were bringing all 11 men back - instead of leaving 2 or 3 quick men up front to counter as many fans wanted.

The thinking was along the lines that there's way more goals scored by the team with the set piece than by the defending team breaking away and scoring. So in order to prioritise preventing conceding, rather than prioritising the more unlikely chance of a breakaway goal, the best plan was deemed to pack the box with bodies as the more bodies that were in there the less space for someone to get a good run at the ball and power a header at goal.

I don't know the stats for how well it's worked, but I remember reading that that was the explanation for the 'everyone back defending' tactic. And it was based on the amount of goals scored from attacking set pieces.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Shot conversion rate is about 11 percent and thats for the top teams with top strikers. Bottom teams closer to 5 percent. So corners at around 3 percent is better than nothing just adds to the goals scored.

 

[Ajr]

So I had an idea for corners and that was putting all of your players towards the corner, kind of like a short corner but with 5 players instead and then pulling out a load of defenders from the box. Then one of them gets to dribble it towards the box like Rashford for example to try and win a penalty

 

[BrilliantOrange]

I always wondered what would happen if the team which concedes the corners just lines up the players in the same way as they would stand as for example the build up when their own keeper has the ball or as for example the formation when they kick-off after a goal.

How would the team taking the corner react to that?

 

[OleTheGreat]

I can’t remember Manchester United ever regularly scoring from a corner….So why do managers and coaches continue to send defenders up and leave the bare minimum amount of players often non defenders back?

Corners actually seem to provide a better chance for the opposition to break than the offensive team to score, see our goal on Sunday.

Personally I’m a fan of ‘old school’ attack v defend football but as the game becomes more and more micro analysed I do wonder if it will ever change to corners becoming more like throw ins. Teams attempting purely to keep possession and build a chance with more short corners being the norm and teams and players holding shape and possession……What is it about corners that makes it worth the risk?

You can actually see many teams who play possession based football take short corners. The ones that come to my mind on short notice are both Pep's teams (Barcelona and City). They believe in keeping possession because they played swift square floored passes that can be tapped rather than find a head that can bulldoze it in. I take it that other teams go for the head or the target men because they believe their taller player can out-jump the defenders and put the ball in. It all depends on the personnel in the team and how you believe you can out-fox your opponents.

 

[Siorac]

I always wondered what would happen if the team which concedes the corners just lines up the players in the same way as they would stand as for example the build up when their own keeper has the ball or as for example the formation when they kick-off after a goal.

How would the team taking the corner react to that?

They'd pinch themselves to see if they're awake and then quickly score before the defending team recovers from their madness.

 

[Tyrion]

they don't actually bother. which IS the problem. nothing about most corners looks like any serious time is spent practicing them tactically

I always wonder what players are communicating when they hold their hand before taking the corner. They just seem to kick it in as usual.

 

[stefan92]

I always wonder what players are communicating when they hold their hand before taking the corner. They just seem to kick it in as usual.

It's mostly about timing. Start the movement in the box when the hand is lowered. It is usually not about announcing how it will be played

 

[Redlyn]

By the way, apparently 30% of all goals are related to a set peice. I am sure corners have their share in there, not sure how much.
It was mentioned in that 5 point breakdown by Rangnick.

 

[DickDastardly]

97% Beckham, 2% Sherringham, 1% Ole.

Hells Angels Norway president Ole.

 

[Champ]

Short corners lead to more goals than corners swung into the box.

Crowds in the UK get pumped when their team gets a corner in the last minute if a game, yet groan when it's taken short, despite this leading to a goal more often.

Corners are over rated as a goal scoring method.

 

[Dwight Corke]

The benefits and drawbacks for a team awarded a corner kick.


Benefit


1. The only real benefit of winning a corner kick is the uncontested restart of play from your opponents' goal line. Having a "free kick" from as high up the pitch as possible allows the taker a free attempt at a dangerous cross while rendering the offside rule momentarily inapplicable.


Drawbacks


1. Fixed position of the setpiece - Corner kicks are always taken from within the corner arcs which are located at the meeting points of the goal line and touchlines on either side of the goal.
International match standard pitches are 68 metres wide; on a pitch of that size, long corner deliveries generally have to travel in excess of 30 metres to be met by a well-positioned teammate.
Pro players are very capable of accurately placing long passes, but with increased distance comes increased flight time, giving defenders more time to react.


2. Attacking team players will always be outnumbered in the box - The defending team can afford to have all 11 players back but the more players the attacking team throws forward, the greater the risk of being counter attacked (and they are already a man down as someone has to take the corner). In addition to normally having a significant numerical advantage, the defending team posseses a player usually over 6 feet tall who is allowed to use his hands and is mollycoddled by the match officials.


Clearly the odds are stacked against the attacking team to even get a shot on target, so why should they bother?


Football is low scoring game in which any opportunity to get close to the opponents goal should be relished, especially when trying to break the deadlock equalise. Defenders are thrown forward in the hope that the imminent setpiece is the one that will yield success and bring that difference-making goal.


Why bother? Because crosses can be delivered perfectly, defending players can misread crosses and mistime jumps, attackers can get on to the end of a cross and guide it into the net. Because all of this can happen during the next corner kick...

 

[WeePat]

It's mostly about timing. Start the movement in the box when the hand is lowered. It is usually not about announcing how it will be played

I always thought it was indicating back post, near post or central box delivery.