Corners….Why Do Teams Bother?

stefan92

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I always thought it was indicating back post, near post or central box delivery.
Might be part of it, I am sure teams handle it differently. For some I am sure it is just about the timing, as there are no different signs regardless the way it is delivered. For others it might indicate more.
 

Bebestation

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I think it's more to do with - what's the point of not taking a corner and instead keeping the ball at feet when all the opposition are perfectly placed anyway.

It's just going to lead to a cross anyway whilst everyone of the opposition is sitting deep. No real alternative to a corner and as long as you can have some team mates guarding your area then it should be fine.
 

Chief123

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I can’t remember Manchester United ever regularly scoring from a corner….So why do managers and coaches continue to send defenders up and leave the bare minimum amount of players often non defenders back?

Corners actually seem to provide a better chance for the opposition to break than the offensive team to score, see our goal on Sunday.

Personally I’m a fan of ‘old school’ attack v defend football but as the game becomes more and more micro analysed I do wonder if it will ever change to corners becoming more like throw ins. Teams attempting purely to keep possession and build a chance with more short corners being the norm and teams and players holding shape and possession……What is it about corners that makes it worth the risk?
Have you forgotten how many times we've been absolutely shafted from corners in the last 2 years? It's like nearly every corner leads to a goal or chaos leading to a goal.
 

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In another thread, @Classical Mechanic posted the Reddit post below - more fuel for the idea that pump-the-ball-into-the-box corners may not be the optimal way to use corner kicks.

 

BrilliantOrange

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They'd pinch themselves to see if they're awake and then quickly score before the defending team recovers from their madness.
You really think so?

Lets say the opponent takes a corner from the side of our left back.
- Our left back would be there to prevent an easy short corner.
- Our two central defenders would be in the box, as well as our right back.
- Our CDM would be around the edge of the penalty area.

That means a short corner wont be easy and there would still be 4 players around the box to challenge a cross.

But more important. How many players would the opponent bring forward, when we still have around 5 players (3 attackers, 2 midfielders further on the pitch) ready to strike on the counter? Additionally the goalkeeper would have a lot more space in the box to move around towards the ball if its being crossed to be able to catch it. Generally every extra player we bring back allows the opponent to bring an extra player to bring forward, making it harder for our goalkeeper to be dominant..

I've never ever seen any team do this (perhaps for a reason), so I really have no clue how this would turn out. I really think the opponent will be very wary to bring many people forward.
 

El Jefe

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We were brilliant at corners last time we won the league. Seem to remember Evra getting a few goals from them.
 
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Short corners lead to more goals than corners swung into the box.

Crowds in the UK get pumped when their team gets a corner in the last minute if a game, yet groan when it's taken short, despite this leading to a goal more often.

Corners are over rated as a goal scoring method.
3% of all goals come from corners
 
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Norman Brownbutter

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If it was purely down to getting more or less corners, surely the % would be similar no matter how many you got. You aren't less likely to score from a corner because you already scored from a corner.

The lower to mid-table teams spend a lot more time working on set-pieces as it's often their best chance to score especially against better opposition.
Well, apparently it is. As you can see.
 

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romufc

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Rangnick was quoted as saying 30% of goals come from set pieces.
Yep, I have seen that. He includes all set pieces though, not just corners. Also, I haven't watched the video back but I thought he said after a set piece, which can include second balls?
 

Withnail

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Yep, I have seen that. He includes all set pieces though, not just corners. Also, I haven't watched the video back but I thought he said after a set piece, which can include second balls?
Oh I was just backing up the fact that it's not 30% of goals from corners. I can't remember if he was also including second balls.
 

MrMarcello

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Outside the two Beckham kicks at Nou Camp that led to goals, there are only two corners goals that I fully remember - Keane in Turin and this peach below.

 

Robertd0803

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Short corner, whip it in from a better angle.

Instead most of our corners seem to be lump/float it in and hope Maguire remembers he can score from corners for more than just England.
 

Withnail

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I’m sorry you don’t like how percentages are calculated…
Ok mate :lol:

The % of goals the lower teams score from corners is higher because they get less corners? Right and why do they score more often from corners than the teams at the top?

Do you also think if the top teams got less corners they'd score the same amount of goals and also have a higher %?
 

stefan92

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I’m sorry you don’t like how percentages are calculated…
The issue is that you see a causality that just does not work that way.
Seems the logic is that better teams get more chances, more corners. And because of that the percentage is always worse as they can’t score every time. Middlesbrough scored 4 as well, but their percentage is better as they only had 132 corners.
It makes absolutely no sense that the conversion rate would decrease when the number of corners increase. It's as if you say throwing a six becomes more unlikely the more often you throw the dice.

There has to be something else going on here why lesser teams are better at scoring corners.

My first idea would be that fielding physically stronger players means you have less playmaking ability, leading to less corners given, but increasing the chance of winning headers and scoring from the corner against a physically weaker team, that is better at playmaking.
 

Reapersoul20

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The Numbers Game, an interesting if dated book on football stats has a chapter on this. Corners are worth on average 0.022 goals within the first 3 touches after a corner in the EPL.
 

crossy1686

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Anyone know the percentage of corners leading to goals generally? Seem to remember it was very low, something like 3%.

So while they seem to be a decent weapon to use vs United, they're not all that promising in total.
Team's don't practice corners enough to be good at them, elite teams anyway. The average time spent practicing corners in the PL is half an hour a week, so unless Big Sam makes a return that isn't going to improve.
 

Withnail

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The issue is that you see a causality that just does not work that way.

It makes absolutely no sense that the conversion rate would decrease when the number of corners increase. It's as if you say throwing a six becomes more unlikely the more often you throw the dice.

There has to be something else going on here why lesser teams are better at scoring corners.

My first idea would be that fielding physically stronger players means you have less playmaking ability, leading to less corners given, but increasing the chance of winning headers and scoring from the corner against a physically weaker team, that is better at playmaking.
I'd say a lot of it is to do with the fact that the weaker teams practice the shit out of set pieces as it's their best chance to score against stronger opposition.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Ok mate :lol:

The % of goals the lower teams score from corners is higher because they get less corners? Right and why do they score more often from corners than the teams at the top?

Do you also think if the top teams got less corners they'd score the same amount of goals and also have a higher %?
The guy asked what the percentage of corners leading to goals was. I gave an answer relating to the 16/17 season. You, for some weird reason, dont like this answer. So I cant really help you any further, other than to say that scoring from corners doesnt happen as often as you think it does in football. If you want a reason that the teams at the lower end of the table score more, I can guess, and say that its because those teams know that getting goals from set pieces is their only real chance to get a goal and so practice more at it than teams that can get goals easily from open play. But again, this is a guess and probably wrong. But unless you want to look at ALL OF FOOTBALL. The fact is just that theres not that many goals scored from corners as people seem to think there is.

So, just to be clear. You take the number of goals scored from corners. You divide that number by the total amount of corners and then you multiple that answer by 100. That is the only answer I gave. And then only one I can, or will comment on.
 

GazTheLegend

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I'm pretty sure David Beckham taking a corner gave any team a MUCH higher percentage of his team scoring from it. It's all about the delivery.

Pat Nevin did a fantastic piece on why modern corners are generally less dangerous and his take on it was that a lot of it had to do with the difference in quality of grass at the corners of each field and the relatively short run up the ground allowed you to take! I'll try and find it...

Edit:. It's here! WELL worth a watch https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/29634200
 

Norman Brownbutter

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The issue is that you see a causality that just does not work that way.

It makes absolutely no sense that the conversion rate would decrease when the number of corners increase. It's as if you say throwing a six becomes more unlikely the more often you throw the dice.

There has to be something else going on here why lesser teams are better at scoring corners.

My first idea would be that fielding physically stronger players means you have less playmaking ability, leading to less corners given, but increasing the chance of winning headers and scoring from the corner against a physically weaker team, that is better at playmaking.
That wasnt what I was asked originally. If I could tell you why, Id be a fecking millionaire. Theres no answer here, as its a global thing. Teams just dont score that many goals from corners. So the more corners you get, the more the percentage goes down the less you score. Im sorry you dont like how math works, but I didnt invent it.
 

Champ

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I think corners are treated as hit and hope in most of the game to be fair. I rarely see teams that actually have serious practiced routines at corners
That's probably true, most of the routines at corners are short corners or a flat ping to the edge of the box for a first time strike!
Although England at the Euros attempted some corner routines with their conga style lineup.
 

lexisonfire

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That's probably true, most of the routines at corners are short corners or a flat ping to the edge of the box for a first time strike!
Although England at the Euros attempted some corner routines with their conga style lineup.
Set piece defending is likely to be worse at international level due to irregular training, England got quite far in the tournament as corner merchants.
 

Lay

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So the whole zonal marking v man marking debate over a decade ago was pointless?,
 

Sandikan

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You can tell the opening poster doesn't look beyond his own nose, and understand there's a whole world of football out there. :lol:
Set pieces and corners are a huge route of goals in the lower leagues.
 

Withnail

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The guy asked what the percentage of corners leading to goals was. I gave an answer relating to the 16/17 season. You, for some weird reason, dont like this answer. So I cant really help you any further, other than to say that scoring from corners doesnt happen as often as you think it does in football. If you want a reason that the teams at the lower end of the table score more, I can guess, and say that its because those teams know that getting goals from set pieces is their only real chance to get a goal and so practice more at it than teams that can get goals easily from open play. But again, this is a guess and probably wrong. But unless you want to look at ALL OF FOOTBALL. The fact is just that theres not that many goals scored from corners as people seem to think there is.

So, just to be clear. You take the number of goals scored from corners. You divide that number by the total amount of corners and then you multiple that answer by 100. That is the only answer I gave. And then only one I can, or will comment on.
I know all of the above and have said as much in other posts. You've misunderstood what I was saying.

The issue I had was your contention that being awarded less corners was the reason for scoring a higher percentage of them which is nonsense. You specifically highlighted that part of my post and insinuated I didn't under basic maths.

Even now you're continuing to explain to me how percentages are calculated. Yes it's been discussed before and teams at the bottom of the table practice corners and set pieces a lot more than the top clubs.
 

stefan92

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That wasnt what I was asked originally. If I could tell you why, Id be a fecking millionaire. Theres no answer here, as its a global thing. Teams just dont score that many goals from corners. So the more corners you get, the more the percentage goes down the less you score. Im sorry you dont like how math works, but I didnt invent it.
No issue with the numbers, just with the causality you assumed. And that causality is an attempt of an explanation, it is not math in itself.
 

Withnail

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No issue with the numbers, just with the causality you assumed. And that causality is an attempt of an explanation, it is not math in itself.
I've tried explaining this about three times but he's sticking to the point that getting more corners means you score a lower % of them and that's somehow maths. I'm baffled.
 

Annouchez

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Call it rose tinted glasses but I really feel like Vidic scored from a corner for us every week. Can’t be asked to check.