I think we're a little bit beyond the responsible adults bit if the conversation here, unless someone is literally living a hermit life in the woods.
Coronavirus in football
- Thread starter Samid
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100%. I'm even more surprised that into our 2nd season of this, there isn't a formal protocol for this and it seems to be on a match by match basis? What the feck? Clubs could literally win leagues/ get relegated/ qualify for Europe based on these decisions.
They're a bunch of millionaires, can't be too hard to get vaccinated, wear a mask and just do a ART test before they go out / have visitors over.
My point is that community spread is at such a high level that you can be triple vaxxed, wear a medical grade mask, do antigen testing twice weekly and be very careful with socialising in general and still get Covid. We don't live in hermetic bubbles.
Yeah…estimated cases are at over 200k cases a day and growing but it’s all down to people not being responsible
This is now the most compromised season of the Covid era. Two games postponed for Newcastle and they’ve still played three more than Burnley. In terms of the relegation battle, it’s a complete mess. Some clubs being forced to play with depleted squads while others get a rest. At the other end, Chelsea have a right to feel hard done by too.
The problem is there is no clear rules on the number of players out that constitutes a postponement and the number that is good enough to play. A lot of teams will feel like the PL is picking and choosing which games to postpone for their benefit.
It's been a real mess from all sides. In my opinion you either don't postpone any matches and let teams use Reserves/Youth or you just have a 2 week break when this started to give the teams time to get this right. There's a 10 day break iirc in the middle of Jan that could have been pushed forward to mid/December. Now most teams will probably be playing that week anyway because of postponing fixtures.
It's been a real mess from all sides. In my opinion you either don't postpone any matches and let teams use Reserves/Youth or you just have a 2 week break when this started to give the teams time to get this right. There's a 10 day break iirc in the middle of Jan that could have been pushed forward to mid/December. Now most teams will probably be playing that week anyway because of postponing fixtures.
And yet some clubs are clearly less affected than others, you think it's because of luck?
The team we could put out against Chelsea right now doesn’t warrant postponing the game. Pretty sure we won’t win.
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This game by game decision making is madness. Every team registers a certain number of players. You say if above a certain % is positive then it's cancelled, and if you aren't above it you use whoever is available including your youth team players. That's the most sensible solution and how something hasn't been implemented in the second season of covid football is beyond me.
You read that above and it's madness, when Cambridge got their game at my boys Wycombe called off with ONE positive case.
Maddison and Barnes are at the darts. You can’t fix stupid
Was just about to post on this.
It's absolutely pathetic behaviour from professional sports people and their clubs should be refused any requests for cancellations in future.
Were some rumours some of the clubs who had games called off over xmas still found time to find in christmas parties, no doubt to continue the superspreading.
Wonder what will happen with FA cup weekend. Last year we had to basically throw our tie with Liverpool by putting the under 12s out, guess it will again be left to clubs to decide whether to forfeit or play the game if outbreak occurs.
Yes. Wolves have had multiple postponements due to an outbreak even though all of their players got the booster. Liverpool are recording cases despite all of their players being fully inoculated. City have barely been affected whereas we were really poorly affected when we supposedly have well above the league average in vaccinated players according to Rangnick. Spurs were hugely affected, Arsenal haven't really been apart from Arteta.
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Bayern has 8 positive Covid cases after the return from the holidays (Neuer, Sane, Upamecano, Hernandez, Coman, Richards, Tolisso, Nianzou) - and one of the two assistant coaches, the team manager and 3 physiotherapists.
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This is so dumb, you shouldn't have to request anything. You either have the necessary numbers or you don't.
Everyone moaned last Christmas when the Everton-City game was postponed at short notice last season due to a COVID outbreak in the City camp.
Everyone moaned this Christmas because lots of games (apart from those involving City) were postponed at short notice due to COVID.
So Liverpool have 3 players out with COVID, and want tomorrows game suspended?
Since when have injuries and AFCON meant you can decide when it suits you to play?
Since when have injuries and AFCON meant you can decide when it suits you to play?
Arsenal fans going crazy over Liverpool trying to postpone game (see below)
Liverpool exaggeration
So Liverpool are trying to get the League Cup semi postponed because of more Covid cases. I’m all for protecting everyone if players are testing positive but there doesn’t appear to be much transparency and a cynic would suggest teams could be exaggerating their plight in order to get a game called off when they might be missing some big name players. There also seems to be cases of different teams being made to play and some getting games called off.
My understanding is teams need 14 fit players which includes a GK in order to play. I think there is something about any young players being used having the ‘right experience’. Well in Liverpool’s last round game against Leicester the following players made their matchday squad: Bradley, Koumetio, Morton, Williams, Gordon, Beck, Quansah, Woltman, Filho – that is 9 players, I’m assuming youngsters who were deemed ready to play a League Cup Quarter Final. If we discount Salah/Mané/Keita as they’re away at the ACN there were a further 13 players who played the game vs Chelsea. So that is 22 players, 23 if we count Robertson back from suspension as he made neither squad for the 2 games noted.
So that would mean Liverpool would need a further 10 covid cases on top of what they already have to not fulfil the fixture – and it could be argued if they were able to put out 9 U23 players in the last round they should be able to dip in to that group of healthy players again.
Salah and Mane haven’t played a minute (or even made the bench) of any League Cup game so far this season so their absence is a moot point for this competition.
I get that having to play games without some of your best players because they have caught covid isn’t ideal or even that fair but why should the semi final first leg v Arsenal be called off if there are plenty of U23 players that can be called upon.
Other teams have had to play on and dropped points or get knocked out of cup competitions (or even ‘forced’ to forfiet a game!) because of covid. It is becoming a bit farcical how teams are declaring they don’t even have 14 fit professionals to play a game when they’re quite happy to throw U23 players in to games when it suits them.
Liverpool exaggeration
So Liverpool are trying to get the League Cup semi postponed because of more Covid cases. I’m all for protecting everyone if players are testing positive but there doesn’t appear to be much transparency and a cynic would suggest teams could be exaggerating their plight in order to get a game called off when they might be missing some big name players. There also seems to be cases of different teams being made to play and some getting games called off.
My understanding is teams need 14 fit players which includes a GK in order to play. I think there is something about any young players being used having the ‘right experience’. Well in Liverpool’s last round game against Leicester the following players made their matchday squad: Bradley, Koumetio, Morton, Williams, Gordon, Beck, Quansah, Woltman, Filho – that is 9 players, I’m assuming youngsters who were deemed ready to play a League Cup Quarter Final. If we discount Salah/Mané/Keita as they’re away at the ACN there were a further 13 players who played the game vs Chelsea. So that is 22 players, 23 if we count Robertson back from suspension as he made neither squad for the 2 games noted.
So that would mean Liverpool would need a further 10 covid cases on top of what they already have to not fulfil the fixture – and it could be argued if they were able to put out 9 U23 players in the last round they should be able to dip in to that group of healthy players again.
Salah and Mane haven’t played a minute (or even made the bench) of any League Cup game so far this season so their absence is a moot point for this competition.
I get that having to play games without some of your best players because they have caught covid isn’t ideal or even that fair but why should the semi final first leg v Arsenal be called off if there are plenty of U23 players that can be called upon.
Other teams have had to play on and dropped points or get knocked out of cup competitions (or even ‘forced’ to forfiet a game!) because of covid. It is becoming a bit farcical how teams are declaring they don’t even have 14 fit professionals to play a game when they’re quite happy to throw U23 players in to games when it suits them.
Leyton Orient had to forfeit the game last season and Spurs got a pass.
Villa had to field under 23 players last season v Liverpool.
I am sure that Liverpool have 14 players to play the game, even if they have to use u-23 players.
Bunch of moaners, as usual.
Villa had to field under 23 players last season v Liverpool.
I am sure that Liverpool have 14 players to play the game, even if they have to use u-23 players.
Bunch of moaners, as usual.
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Well played Villa
The problem is none of those U23s or senior players have been able to train for days. Even the coaches that are supposed to train them are struck down. The training complex has been shut as a result. Both Klopp and his number two, Ljinders, have Covid.
Maybe we can find fourteen fans who don't have Covid that can play. Because, you know, Leyton Orient, innit.
They can feck right off when they were happily beating our 12 years old and celebrating wildly because most of our players were playing club world cup half way across the world ON THE SAME DAY. And Villa wouldn't shift that game.
Biggest bunch of hypocrites out there.
Which players have Covid? It’s all very smoke and mirrors.The problem is none of those U23s or senior players have been able to train for days. Even the coaches that are supposed to train them are struck down. The training complex has been shut as a result. Both Klopp and his number two, Ljinders, have Covid.
Maybe we can find fourteen fans who don't have Covid that can play. Because, you know, Leyton Orient, innit.
Alisson, Matip and Firmino missed Chelsea. That’s 3.
Who is the rest?
The rules and criteria have changed since the Leyton Orient forfeit apparently. Also, as far as I know this is our first request to postpone any games. We've had to play games against rested teams because of postponements over the holidays. I'm not keeping count but which teams have not had to postpone any games because of own Covid issues?
Our manager and his replacement are out with Covid and we had to close down our training facilities. Could we field 11 players tomorrow night? I guess, probably. Is it fair to ask for a postponement given these circumstances? Also yes.
I guess Arsenal fans all have no interest in that and would rather thrash our U17 side or something like that.
I'll say again for your benefit. The training complex is shut as covid is rife. The HEALTHY players have not trained for days as managers and coaches are struck down too.
There are a huge number of exercises they can do in their homes and outside, and Liverpool should have a substantial training team to explain them over zoom or whatever for those that are too thick to work it out for themselves. Sure their touch on the ball will deteriorate, very slightly in a few days, that's not enough reason to call a match off. If they don't have enough players that are testing negative then fair enough, but the training thing is bollocks.
So Liverpool who have treated the league and fa cup with contempt with their lineups the last few years are trying to get the semi called off.
Right. Got it.
Right. Got it.
Can't be looked at in isolation though, it's a cumulative thing. Not having manager and caretaker manager available, several players out due to positive tests, not having access to the training ground, probably lots of close contacts to the positive players who could already be contagious tomorrow night without having tested positive, ... If you add all that up I don't think there's anything wrong or that anyone should be surprised that we have asked for a postponement. I haven't followed the situation at other teams when they applied for postponements but I'd imagine it were similar circumstances, no team ever has their whole senior squad out at the same time.
Mind you I have no idea what the actual criteria are and if the above suffices, but I don't think it's anything unreasonable or out of the extraordinary to ask for a postponement under these circumstances.
Should we fulfill the criteria for a postponement, do you think we would not be allowed to ask for it because of how we fielded teams in the past? That's quite clearly some bullshit.
Not to mention that most big teams treat the League Cup as inferior until they get to the latter stages.
If there is an outbreak and most of your squad has covid it's understandable, but I think including the AFCON players and injuries into the list of 'players out' is where the controversy is coming from similar to that of Newcastle who had an injury crisis and got their game postponed.
I've heard there are 3 players out with covid if this is true the game should be played. Maybe I've heard wrong, If half of your squad members are out with covid then the game should be postponed as it was for us, spurs and Newcastle. Like you said prior team selection should not come into it, at the end of the day it's still a semi final.
Does seem insane to make teams play if they're in a position to close their training facility.
Who makes calls on when training facilities need to close? Does the club have the final say in that?
Who makes calls on when training facilities need to close? Does the club have the final say in that?
I only replied to point about the training complex being shut for a few days, as that particular point was wrong.
As for the rest I don't think the EFL have stated any criteria, which was remiss of them, but if they use the Premier league 13 +1 then I would support that, whether it applies to Liverpool, United or anyone else. I wouldn't hold it against anyone for asking, but I would treat all clubs on the same basis.
Not sure, but this is from our official website:
Also mentions that we have had new positive cases today.
Yeah of course! If we have asked for postponement and don't qualify, then tough luck. Rules should be the same for every club involved, don't see why they'd grant special treatment to anyone either.
If it's just a judgment call from the EFL people, the least we can try is to get it postponed, I guess.