Could City be Pep's undoing?

Edgio

Full Member
Joined
May 17, 2005
Messages
3,980
Location
Manchester
Massively different league. Big names come in and fail all the time. Look at Mourinho, did well originally come back into the new league and was hanging around the relegation zone. I'm optimistic that this guy has bitten off more than he can chew.
Yep. And City need a fair few players if they want to play his style to optimum effect, and they will be under more sustained pressure on their passing game than Pep has faced before. Will his style hold up against that? I'm not so sure.
 

Sphaero

Struggling to explain his genius to the hoi polloi
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
4,620
Location
Potsdam, Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
No chance. Best league in the world. United are average in context of the league but still a world power.
A world power, which fell to the galactical giants PSV Eindhoven and a Wolfsburg side, which currently struggles to break into the international places in the Bundesliga. One hell of a super power that club. Hopefully we won´t meet this Juggernaut in the EL this season.

Arsenal are a better side than Dortmund and Bayern are a lot better than the current City side. Bayern without Guardiola would beat City more often than not.
Based on this season? Nah. We are a good deal more consistent, because of way more offensive firepower, which compensates for a slightly shakier defense.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
21,203
I cant wait to see how he does.

Hes only ever managed the runaway best teams in the league with almost unlimited resources and talent. Hows he going to deal with a paper thin back line every time Kompany gets injured, or cope with Toure walking 90% of every match? Or with the Bournemouths of the league giving them a proper game every week? Or with not having immediate access to the worlds best talents?

That said i wish he had come here and now heres to hoping he fails miserably.
 

sammsky1

Pochettino's #1 fan
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
32,841
Location
London
Peps going to arrive at City and not know about the premier league. I'm looking forward to his rude awakening.

First things first the quality of players. Excluding his own players two of the top three scorers in his league are Kalou and Hernandez. One couldn't get in our worst team in ages and another was a very average Chelsea player. They're the best players he plays against in Germany FFS. Welcome to the prem Pep, where every club has strikers at that level. Most have better FFS. It's all well and good defending against Kalou, our bottom half teams have Lukaku and Costa you mug.

Ok he thinks, I'll get some of my old players in. They were great for me. Not so fast Pep, not so fast at all. Players who have dominated the Bundesliga can't handle the prem. We sent Kagawa and Sahin packing. Players like Diouf and Firmino look average mate. We're a better quality over here.

Fine Pep thinks. I'll do what I always do. Who are the best players in the league? Bring them to me. I signed Dortmunds best players and ruined the league, let's get Martial, the kid is quality. How did we let Arsenal sign Sanchez?!?

Just let it sink in. His face when he isn't just signing anyone from the league. Our league is a competition Pep. Not a mockery. Our relegated teams have more money than most of your league, hands off mate.

Finally he think. I have my tactics! My previous philosophy. LVG would like a word. Each team in the prem is a challenge, you ain't getting 6-0s here every week mate. We know how to defend. We are fit, strong and we can counter.

Good luck Pep, everything you think you know will soon change. Hope you and Klopp have each other at least when you're crying by Christmas.
One of the best posts I've read in a while. Made me smile and you also make many good points I had not considered.

Certainly after every EPL club spends its new TV money in the summer, the gap between the clubs will be even less.

I also think he will have a slow start: his footballing philosophy is very different to City's current play and they will be less effective to start with. Likewise PL clubs have had 2 years of practice playing against our possession based side. It maybe an inferior version, but Peps football won't be the revolution it was in Spain or Germany.

However much depends on how United, Chelsea and Liverpool re-tool over the summer. Even if LVG remains at United, it's critical he retains de Gea and signs genuine ready made world class talent at centre back, defensive playmaker, right wing and striker. I suspect Chelsea will sign Simeone, he is made for them, and they will also invest £200 into their squad, partly funded by the loss of Hazard. And I have no doubt Klopp will make significant progress at Liverpool.

I'm like you, whilst Pep is a great signing for Manchester City and kudos to them for being so ambitious and meticulous in thier strategic planning, I don't think he guarantees immediate success. He still has to experience his first cold and windy night away at Stoke!
 

sammsky1

Pochettino's #1 fan
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
32,841
Location
London
This post makes some very good points, albeit in an extreme piss taking way.

However, the PL is a bigger challenge than anything Pep has thus far faced and it will be fascinating to see how well he does. As a City fan I am optimistic but I am well aware that appointing Pep guarantees nothing.

Still I'd rather it was at City that we get to find out just how good Pep is rather than at another PL club. ;)
You guys must be chuffed as chips! Exciting times ahead for City fans.
 

SalfordRed1960

Full Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
4,554
Location
Miami Beach, FL 33139
He would have practically all the same issues mentioned in this thread whether he was at United, Chelsea or City, maybe less so if it was Arsenal . He would have different challenges there.

However at City he has the luxury of loads of cash to fix it countered by the Manchester climate to attract the best.

When you think of Jose, even with the London pull, how many WC players did they attract. It can be argued that they threw just as much cash about when Roman came.

If pep does well in the PL then that is no better than the previous 2 managers. If he gets the CL I will take my hat off to him because I do not believe City are a top 4 CL team yet and it is not easy getting and sustaining that level.
 

Witchking

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
4,494
Location
Angmar
Peps going to arrive at City and not know about the premier league. I'm looking forward to his rude awakening.

First things first the quality of players. Excluding his own players two of the top three scorers in his league are Kalou and Hernandez. One couldn't get in our worst team in ages and another was a very average Chelsea player. They're the best players he plays against in Germany FFS. Welcome to the prem Pep, where every club has strikers at that level. Most have better FFS. It's all well and good defending against Kalou, our bottom half teams have Lukaku and Costa you mug.

Ok he thinks, I'll get some of my old players in. They were great for me. Not so fast Pep, not so fast at all. Players who have dominated the Bundesliga can't handle the prem. We sent Kagawa and Sahin packing. Players like Diouf and Firmino look average mate. We're a better quality over here.

Fine Pep thinks. I'll do what I always do. Who are the best players in the league? Bring them to me. I signed Dortmunds best players and ruined the league, let's get Martial, the kid is quality. How did we let Arsenal sign Sanchez?!?

Just let it sink in. His face when he isn't just signing anyone from the league. Our league is a competition Pep. Not a mockery. Our relegated teams have more money than most of your league, hands off mate.

Finally he think. I have my tactics! My previous philosophy. LVG would like a word. Each team in the prem is a challenge, you ain't getting 6-0s here every week mate. We know how to defend. We are fit, strong and we can counter.

Good luck Pep, everything you think you know will soon change. Hope you and Klopp have each other at least when you're crying by Christmas.

Sorry man, you try to make some points but as many said, you are over rating the premier league. Plus the post also sounds a bit rawkish (they.are.afraid.) City are going to be at the top. They already are. Pep might just help them towards their first CL along with a couple of league titles while United rebuild.
 

Livewire1974

If it moves, report it.
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
7,761
Location
Dublin
This will be he first real pressure job, in a league that is becoming very competitive. He is going to be shipping a lot of players out and bringing a lot it, the media will be on his case if they dont all settle quickly.
 

entropy

Full Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
11,224
Location
Where's my arc, Paulie?
Sorry man, you try to make some points but as many said, you are over rating the premier league. Plus the post also sounds a bit rawkish (they.are.afraid.) City are going to be at the top. They already are. Pep might just help them towards their first CL along with a couple of league titles while United rebuild.
Reeks of R.A.W.K.
 

CLARiiON

Mes que un Gloryhunter
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
1,954
Location
127.0.0.1
Supports
Barcelona
You guys need to get a grip. 1 guy says he will be out by Christmas, another says he will win 3 CL's. He's just another manager in a competitive league, he's not some magician. He will win games, and he will lose games like any other manager. United better look at themselves, decide what they need to do in next transfer window to bring proper players to fill the gaps without looking into what Pep/City is doing. No point acting like Perez's Madrid who always wants the next shinning thing in market.
 

Varun

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
46,772
Location
Mumbai
Re the thread in general, he has gone for the easiest option again but I don't think it will be remotely as straightforward as it's made out to be if the other top teams get their act together. I don't give a feck about others but I certainly hope we realise how critical a time this is and take the necessary steps, the first of which should be to appoint Jose ASAP.
 

carvajal

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
11,053
Location
Spain
Supports
Real Madrid
You guys need to get a grip. 1 guy says he will be out by Christmas, another says he will win 3 CL's. He's just another manager in a competitive league, he's not some magician. He will win games, and he will lose games like any other manager. United better look at themselves, decide what they need to do in next transfer window to bring proper players to fill the gaps without looking into what Pep/City is doing. No point acting like Perez's Madrid who always wants the next shinning thing in market.
On the contrary I think that United have to make a financial effort, go seriously for top players and meddle in all their signings. What they can not do is not lift a finger while losing local and national hegemony.
When Pep appeared Madrid bought Kaka , Cristiano and Benzema , did everything possible to balance the situation ( and Barça would have done the same )
He is not just a coach that promotes the beautiful game , but he's very intelligent and prepares very hard every game, is very demanding with himself. United have to fill many gaps , I do not see anyone like Sterling, Silva, De Bruyne or Agüero at United. The team is sufficiently delayed to allow further debates or that slow pace in all decisions .
 

marukomu

The Gatekeeper
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
20,649
Location
gusset
He could struggle... maybe.
Brentan looked a good manager when he had Suarez.
 

Needham

Full Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2013
Messages
11,747
I've been wondering this, too. Will a manager who in the opinion of those who have worked with him at all levels, pitchside and boardroom, agree to be the among the world historical coaching revolutionary elite, who wins trophy after trophy playing football a global audience of billions enjoy watching, and who can, on command, have his teams switch tactics to out-strategize and nullify any given opposition, and who enjoys the challenge of winning every single competition he enters to the extent that his matchday routine is so intense that he doesn't eat before kick off be a good thing for Manchester City or a bad thing? I just can't decide.
 

dichinero

New Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
7,153
Would it would shock people if it turns out that the City job proves that Pep could hack it anywhere, how about that?
 

Xaviesta

Full Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
11,771
Location
Camp Nou
Supports
Barcelona
No, I expect him to be successful at City. Winning the Champions League there will be tough but for the first time since the Abu Dhabi takeover they've got a truly elite manager.
 

Spock

New Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
1,851
Pep is a quality manager but if we counter him with Jose I like our chances of bringing in league trophies.

But if we persist with Van Gaal or go with Giggs we're in trouble.
 

Sereques

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
5,873
Location
MD, USA
He will be United's undoing.

City will walk the league in the coming years and pep will bring them their first taste of european success by winning a CL. City will become the new top dogs like we once were and we will keep on struggling to get into the top 4. Literally in the space of a few years will the roles between us and them have completley changed. The new generation of young footballers and supporters will regard City as the pinnacle of english football and United will be a club of the past filled with forlorn glory and lingering to the old times stuck in mediocracy and self-delusion.

Best start preparing for it because it will be a long and painfull ride ahead of us...
Why would City walk the league? What happen to Chelsea and Arsenal? Why would he win champions league when he can't even do it with Bayern? Willing to bet my house that he won't win champions league with City. I do be shocked if he makes it to the finals.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,525
He will have his arse spanked by Giggs only for him to retreat in Spain were the Nevs will finish the job.....believe
 

2 man midfield

Last Man Standing finalist 2021/22
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Messages
45,669
Location
?
I genuinely don't know how he'll do. I think he could struggle at first, but I don't think he'll be unsuccessful.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
He won't have a Barcelona or Bayern level squad this time though so there's no point comparing with Madrid or Dortmund. But yeah unless we hire Mourinho...Pep with the best squad in the league + £150m+ to spend in the summer will pretty much guarantee a title for them.
He'll still have the best squad in the league, in addition to having more resources than any other club in the league.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
It is amazing how @Twigginater and co. act like EPL is such a strong league and that you need so much experience there to win it. Despite that, it gets opposed by a lot of things.

For example:
- Twigginater mentions Hernandez as the top scorer in Germany as something which tells bad about the quality of the league. But then the top scorer in EPL is fecking James Vardy who isn't fit to tie Hernandez's shoes.
- He mentions EPL rejects doing good in Bundesliga. But then the likes of Shaqiri (Bundesliga/Serie A reject), Bojan (La Liga/Serie A/Eredivisie reject), Pelle (Serie A/Eredivisie reject), Arnautovic (Serie A/Bundesliga reject) have been doing so well in the strong EPL that he mentioned (in other posts) how strong Stoke are.
- Leicester City are leading the league. Leicester City. United got eliminated for Wolvsburg who aren't even in Europa League zone.

But more importantly on the experience of managers:
- Mourinho won the title on his first season in England. He went to repeat it in the following season.
- Ancelotti won the title and the cup in his first season in England.
- Pellegrini won the title in his first season in England.
- Wenger won the title in his second season in England
- Mancini won the cup in his first season in England, and then the title the following season.
- On his second spell, Mourinho won the title in the second season.

But yep, it is so difficult to win the title for a manager without experience in England. Pep must be shitting himself.

For all the Caf is becoming RAWK which gets mentioned repeatedly here, posts like that and others which defy the logic ('I can't wait for us to be ahead of Pep's City next season'), are what makes Caf similar to RAWK. The baseless optimism which goes contrary to everything rational. Like when they were thinking that Rafa and their team will manage to be ahead of us the following season.
 

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
Will he? Can he come unstuck here? Not the easiest league to manage: Not a 2/3 horse race.
The PL right now looks more like a donkey race without any race horse taking part in it. Pep just needs to increase City's consistency and they'll walk the league. It's really not that difficult a job as long as all the other top teams continue to make stupid decisions on a regular basis.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
Why would City walk the league? What happen to Chelsea and Arsenal? Why would he win champions league when he can't even do it with Bayern? Willing to bet my house that he won't win champions league with City. I do be shocked if he makes it to the finals.
They are a bit shit, aren't them? Especially Chelsea, while Arsenal haven't won the league in more than a decade and it looks that it is continuing. City looks destined to win the league with Pellegrini who is an inferior manager (which will make 2 in 3 for him, 3 in 5 for City), now imaging them with the best manager in the world in addition to having a lot of money to burn (more than any other club in the league).

UCL is a totally different beast, obviously, and there are at least 4 teams at the moment who are better than City (Barca, Bayern, Atletico and Madrid for sure, with Juve and PSG very likely being better than them too). It will be very difficult to win the UCL trophy for him with City, but just because he didn't win it with Bayern (and he may well do it this season), doesn't mean that he cannot win with them. Mourinho weren't able to win it with the top 2 teams he coaches, but then won it with Inter and Porto, for example.

Unless us/Chelsea get Mourinho/Simeone and give them 150-200m pounds to spent, I think that league's trophy is City's for as long as Pep stays in England. UCL will be far more difficult, for sure.
 

predator

Youth NITK
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
6,754
Location
South Manchester
I don't think he will walk in and immediately turn them into a winning machine. It will take him a season to adapt to the league imo. The Premier league is very different to Bundesliga and La Liga.
I am not getting too worried yet.
 

Wumminator

The Qatar Pounder
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
22,933
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
Why would you not have baseless optimism in your team? RAWK wasn't funny because they believed it was funny when they believed and then they lost.
 

Untied

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
4,480
It depends what counts as "undoing"

He won't win every trophy he competes for. And if he stays 3 years he'll be doing unbelievably well to win the league 3 years running. Twice would probably be the expectation. And 1 CL.

He'll be a draw for players as well. Pogba, Lewandowski, Stones, Marquinhos. They won't get them all, but he'll help.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
49,419
Location
London
Why would you not have baseless optimism in your team? RAWK wasn't funny because they believed it was funny when they believed and then they lost.
Ain't that the definition of being delusional?

RAWK was funny everytime they claimed that they'll win the league next season, and we will fall under Sir Alex while they will flourish under Senor Rafa. Every one with an ounce of logic knew how will that end.

And everyone knew how Moyes experiment will end but then you were enjoying a lot that season too.

And everyone knows (that unless Mourinho/Simeone come to this league and can spend a lot of money) how this will end.

As devlish said yesterday, LVG vs Pep would be like Napoleon vs stealth fighters.
 

thegregster

Harbinger of new information
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
13,446
Why would City walk the league? What happen to Chelsea and Arsenal? Why would he win champions league when he can't even do it with Bayern? Willing to bet my house that he won't win champions league with City. I do be shocked if he makes it to the finals.
Messi,Suarez, Inesta and a few others will be gone/in decline in three years time. He won't have to face such a brilliant team towards the end of his city contract.
 

Wumminator

The Qatar Pounder
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
22,933
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
Ain't that the definition of being delusional?

RAWK was funny everytime they claimed that they'll win the league next season, and we will fall under Sir Alex while they will flourish under Senor Rafa. Every one with an ounce of logic knew how will that end.

And everyone knew how Moyes experiment will end but then you were enjoying a lot that season too.

And everyone knows (that unless Mourinho/Simeone come to this league and can spend a lot of money) how this will end.

As devlish said yesterday, LVG vs Pep would be like Napoleon vs stealth fighters.
Who is this everyone?

Everyone who thought Leicster would be top of the league?

Everyone who knew half way through the season Mourinho would be 16th.

Everyone who laughed at Rafa who got Liverpool their best points tally ever?

Everyone who laughed at RAWK when Brendan Rodgers got them to 2nd

Everyone who said Wenger should be sacked?

Everyone who saw Di Mateo win the Champions League?

Everyone on redcafe who wanted Snjieder, Pedro, Schevchenko, Di Maria, Falcao etc etc.

There's NO constant in football. That's why we love it. You can not with a certainty say anything. Obviously Pep has done well so far. He could flop.
 

Walrus

Oppressed White Male
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
11,156
My big hope is that the intensity of the PL will be too much. The way he worked his players at Barca and Bayern was unbelievable - I could see City have a Pep-induced injury crisis (not unlike Klopp at Liverpool) due to the high intensity and workrate that he insists upon from his players, coupled with the amount of games/no easy games/no winter break nature of the PL.

I could also see him burning out individually in that sort of environment - we have seen high profile managers from abroad like LVG and Klopp struggle to adapt to the PL. If nothing else I think City will represent a different and more substantial challenge than what he has faced so far. If we brought in Mourinho then it could really put some pressure on him.

The big worry is if Pep gets a blank chequebook and goes crazy for the likes of Messi. That said, from a legacy point of view I don't think it will be regarded as an impressive achievement for him to come in, buy Messi and win some trophies as a result.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

'Liverpool are a proper club'
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
10,665
Sorry man, you try to make some points but as many said, you are over rating the premier league. Plus the post also sounds a bit rawkish (they.are.afraid.) City are going to be at the top. They already are. Pep might just help them towards their first CL along with a couple of league titles while United rebuild.
yeh because your not allowed to be positive on these forums... The meltdown over city is the closed thing to Rawk so stop trying to make everything out to be doom and gloom.
 

Dr. Funkenstein

Not CAF Geert Wilders
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
1,713
He has only managed two clubs. The club he left is now doing better than when he was in charge, the club he manages now was doing better before he was in charge. He still got to match the incompetent dinosaur's performance in his first year and hasn't even come close in two attempts.

Obviously he knows what he's doing and he succeeds in implementing his own playing style, but you have to judge a manager on performances in relation to the players he has and could get and all this adoration is getting ridiculous. I applaud him for taking the challenge though, because the PL will be a lot harder than strolling through the Bundesliga.