Could our academy record be in danger?

spirit of 99

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Apr 19, 2007
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We’ve lost so many of our academy graduates in recent years, a hugely concerning amount, some of which we thought would always be here, but, in many cases, are now flourishing away from United - McTominay, Greenwood, Gomes, Garner, Tuanzebe, Carreras, Pereira, Henderson, Elanga, Rashford, with Garnacho to follow. Apart from being an terrible indictment of the club, and how it’s failed to nurture this young talent properly, the financial implications of this combined failure are massive - it’s not as though we got top dollar for any of them.

The rot actually set in while Fergie was here, our supposed future stars, Morrison and Pogba, both frustratingly lost for different reasons. Then there was Januzaj, for whom there were such big expectations, before Lingard became an ongoing drama.

Now I worry that at some point this season the club could put out a matchday squad without any home-grown players. Yesterdays squad only included unused subs, Mainoo (who was the subject of transfer speculation as well), Fredricson, plus Heaton, and two academy players to recently breakthrough, Collyer and Amass, have gone out on loan (not forgetting Jonny Evans, now retired). That leaves us really thin on the ground - even the two top prospects we can call upon, Heaven and Obi, both came through Arsenal’s academy, not ours.

With Onana fit again and the possibility of a new keeper being brought in, Heaton is but a stopgap sub. Mazraoui or Martinez returning would surely take Fredricson’s place, and then, if we’re lucky, there might be a new midfielder to accommodate, so someone will lose out there. Mainoo could well be last man standing in some scenarios.

There’ll obviously be injuries, which will open up places for younger players, but there isn’t anyone obvious ready to make the step up, nobody on the tour that jumped out. Leaving aside Garnacho, Sancho, Anthony, Malacia and now it seems Hojlund, we have, I make it, 22 non-academy players in the squad, maybe more by the end of the transfer window. There doesn’t seem to be much room for youth development, especially with Amorim in a pressure-cooker situation, and possibly fighting for his job if upcoming results go badly.

In a hypothetical situation where, let’s say, some/all of the above happened and Mainoo picked up an injury, would it be right to name an academy player on the bench, just to continue the record, at the expense of a more senior squad player who would otherwise be selected, manipulating the statistic by picking someone to preserve the record, rather than on merit?
 
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We’ve lost so many of our academy graduates in recent years, a hugely concerning amount, some of which we thought would always be here, but, in many cases, are now flourishing away from United - McTominay, Greenwood, Gomes, Garner, Tuanzebe, Carreras, Pereira, Henderson, Elanga, Rashford, with Garnacho. to follow. Apart from being an terrible indictment of the club, and how it’s failed to nurture this young talent properly, the financial implications of this combined failure are massive - it’s not as though we got top dollar for any of them.

The rot actually set in while Fergie was here, our supposedly future stars, Morrison and Pogba, both frustratingly lost for different reasons. Then there was Januzaj, for whom there were such big expectations, before Lingard became an ongoing drama.

Now I worry that at some point this season the club could put out a matchday squad without any home-grown players. Yesterdays squad only included unused subs, Mainoo (who was the subject of transfer speculation as well) and Fredricson, plus Heaton, and two of academy players to recently breakthrough, Collyer and Amass, have gone out on lone (not forgetting Jonny Evans, now retired). That leaves us really thin on the ground, even the two top prospects we can call upon, Heaven and Obi, came through Arsenal’s academy, not ours.

With Onana fit again and the possibility of a new keeper being brought in, Heaton is but a stopgap sub. Mazraoui or Martinez returning would surely take Fredricson’s place. And then, if we’re lucky, there might be a new midfielder to accommodate, so someone will lose out there. Mainoo could well be last man standing in some scenarios.

There’ll obviously be injuries, which will open up places for younger players, but there isn’t anyone obvious ready to make the step up, nobody on the tour that jumped out. Leaving aside Garnacho, Sancho, Anthony, Malacia and now, it seems Hojlund, we have, I make it, 22 non-academy players in the squad, maybe more by the end of the transfer window. There doesn’t seem to be much room for youth development, especially with Amorim in a pressure-cooker situation, and possibly fighting for his job if upcoming results go badly.

In a hypothetical situation where, let’s say, some/all of the above happened and Mainoo picked up an injury, would it be right to name an academy player in the bench, just to continue the record, at the expense of a more senior squad player who would otherwise be selected, manipulating the statistic by picking someone to preserve the record, rather than on merit?
Not worth compromising a matchday squad for the sake of this record. Let's hope Mainoo stays fit!
 
We’ve lost so many of our academy graduates in recent years, a hugely concerning amount, some of which we thought would always be here, but, in many cases, are now flourishing away from United - McTominay, Greenwood, Gomes, Garner, Tuanzebe, Carreras, Pereira, Henderson, Elanga, Rashford, with Garnacho. to follow. Apart from being an terrible indictment of the club, and how it’s failed to nurture this young talent properly, the financial implications of this combined failure are massive - it’s not as though we got top dollar for any of them.

The rot actually set in while Fergie was here, our supposedly future stars, Morrison and Pogba, both frustratingly lost for different reasons. Then there was Januzaj, for whom there were such big expectations, before Lingard became an ongoing drama.

Now I worry that at some point this season the club could put out a matchday squad without any home-grown players. Yesterdays squad only included unused subs, Mainoo (who was the subject of transfer speculation as well) and Fredricson, plus Heaton, and two of academy players to recently breakthrough, Collyer and Amass, have gone out on lone (not forgetting Jonny Evans, now retired). That leaves us really thin on the ground, even the two top prospects we can call upon, Heaven and Obi, came through Arsenal’s academy, not ours.

With Onana fit again and the possibility of a new keeper being brought in, Heaton is but a stopgap sub. Mazraoui or Martinez returning would surely take Fredricson’s place. And then, if we’re lucky, there might be a new midfielder to accommodate, so someone will lose out there. Mainoo could well be last man standing in some scenarios.

There’ll obviously be injuries, which will open up places for younger players, but there isn’t anyone obvious ready to make the step up, nobody on the tour that jumped out. Leaving aside Garnacho, Sancho, Anthony, Malacia and now, it seems Hojlund, we have, I make it, 22 non-academy players in the squad, maybe more by the end of the transfer window. There doesn’t seem to be much room for youth development, especially with Amorim in a pressure-cooker situation, and possibly fighting for his job if upcoming results go badly.

In a hypothetical situation where, let’s say, some/all of the above happened and Mainoo picked up an injury, would it be right to name an academy player in the bench, just to continue the record, at the expense of a more senior squad player who would otherwise be selected, manipulating the statistic by picking someone to preserve the record, rather than on merit?
Given the amount of subs we are allowed these days, I think this is almost certain to happen. If we were talking about 5 subs on the bench like a few years ago it could be in serious trouble.

The PSR stuff won't help as it is seemingly more profitable to sell academy players going forward.
 
I imagine at this stage of the Ineos ownership, following them losing a lot of goodwill (staff redundancies, leaving the stadium, forcing some academy graduates out the team), that they would have had a word with Amorim to not let that record end any time soon because it is something we can point to as uniquely impressive about United. But if in the next few years we see some improvement and get to the stage where we just dont have a graduate in the team that's worth having, they'd be willing to end it for the sake of just getting the best 20 players out there
 
With 9 subs on the bench it barely counts for anything to have a random youth player there. We won't lose it but it's also not really a record worth anything anymore when we have just 1 homegrown player in the squad who will actually get game time.
 
It’s not a concern at all - there will always be an academy player waiting in the wings to be put in the squad. There’s no way we’ll let that record slip.
 
I don’t think it’s beyond the realms of possibility for the reasons given by @spirit of 99 but I would think it’s unlikely given the no of players considered home grown in the squad, and the amount of subs in the match day squads nowadays.
 
Zero chance of that happening.

Match day squads are bigger than ever through the histpry of football.

Our Under-18s won the treble in 2024 and we are about to see some the fruits of that over th enext 3 seasons.

On top of that: EVERY MANCHESTER UNITED MANAGER SINCE SIR ALEX has had it included in their hiring contract that they will include a youth teamer in every match day squad. Ole has spoken about this.

This record will never stop.
 
When you look at the number of players with questionable attitude (or worse) have come through our academy you have to ask whether the way we mythologise it and put it on a pedestal is a healthy thing.

I’m not suggesting we let the record slip, but the way it’s seen as an untouchable thing is indicative of how our Academy is perceived internally and marketed externally in general, and part of the reason it produces the “characters” that it does.
 
I love that we have that streak and obviously would like it to continue, but if it goes it goes.
The list of recent academy graduates is full of players that either under delivered for us or became problematic.
 
This record is a bit silly to me these days, doubly so given bench size increase and the suggestions that it’s actually baked into our managers contracts to select at least one per squad. The latter point basically removes anything impressive about this for me.

Negative stance I know
 
Record runs eventually end. It's a record that will probably not be broken in your great-great-great-grandchildren's lifetime so a failure to maintain the run wouldn't be so tragic.

It may be perpetuating a false narrative that United always has a pipeline of PL quality starlets knocking on the senior squad door. Most of the academy players who make the list of substitutes only get as far as being an unused sub or getting 2 minute cameos before being flogged for pure profit.

It would be better to stop token inclusions and save matchday squad selection for real prospects and backup in injury crises.
 
Unless he's injured Mainoo will always be in the match day squads.
 
Amad Diallo is also considered an Academy Product. Literally and officially.
 
Nobody seeing the point of giving a young lad the opportunity to be around the first team on match day?
It means a lot to their development and let's them see that a place is within grasp if they want to work for it.

It's the heritage of our club and not just a meaningless record to hold onto.
 
No he isn’t and there isn’t actually any such thing as an ‘official’ academy product.

I think they're probably referring to the home grown rules that a countries FA and UEFA use for squad registration rules for their competitions. A quick Google suggests Amad could've been considered home grown we're it not for his short loan spell at Rangers when he was registered as a player with the Scottish FA rather than English FA.
 
I think they're probably referring to the home grown rules that a countries FA and UEFA use for squad registration rules for their competitions. A quick Google suggests Amad could've been considered home grown we're it not for his short loan spell at Rangers when he was registered as a player with the Scottish FA rather than English FA.
I think we registered him in under under 21s when he went for loan, so he counts as homegrown.

It’s the same workaround Arsenal did to get Saliba counting as homegrown despite being out on loan in France.
 
I think they're probably referring to the home grown rules that a countries FA and UEFA use for squad registration rules for their competitions. A quick Google suggests Amad could've been considered home grown we're it not for his short loan spell at Rangers when he was registered as a player with the Scottish FA rather than English FA.
Likely, but those have nothing to do with academy football or its products.


On the Manchester United official website, Amad is included in the looooooooooong list of our Academy Graduates.
Nooooooooo he isn’t

https://www.manutd.com/en/academy/youth-team-debutants
 
Records are vanity, silverware is sanity, titles are reality. Stats should be the byproduct of a (ideally) winning process.
.
 
Also, Obi probably technically counts as an United academy graduate. He's played in your youth teams and made his senior debut at at your club.
 
I think we registered him in under under 21s when he went for loan, so he counts as homegrown.

It’s the same workaround Arsenal did to get Saliba counting as homegrown despite being out on loan in France.
That's interesting, I probably have a very FM-centric understanding of how the home grown rules work but good to know there's ways around it.
 
Our record isn't in any jeopardy with new rules regarding substitutions and especially if it's true about managers having to put one academy player in the matchday squad.

What I do see changing is our approach to academy players. With the changes in rules such as FFP and PSR coupled with how poorly we've been run, we're now heavily incentivized to sell academy players with sell on clauses and/or buy back clauses. Our academy is now going to be used as a revenue stream much like other clubs have been doing the past few years, rather than using them to fill the squad (think Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher) or if their talent is undeniable put them in the first team and develop them.

If he has a decent loan, I can easily see us selling Harry Amass next summer for like 15M and adding in sell on clauses. I'm concerned we didn't even give Vitek a chance in preseason for this reason as well.
 
Agree with the posters who say that the current owners will not allow this record to be broken in the near term. This goes beyond PR.
 
1937 I think.

That's a great achievement to be fair as i can't remember a time where there's been a token kid stuck on the bench to keep it going. It'll probably end in the near future though.

Between that and not having many English players and no senior Irish, Welsh or Scottish players. Times are definitely changing.
 
Zero chance of that happening.

Match day squads are bigger than ever through the histpry of football.

Our Under-18s won the treble in 2024 and we are about to see some the fruits of that over th enext 3 seasons.

On top of that: EVERY MANCHESTER UNITED MANAGER SINCE SIR ALEX has had it included in their hiring contract that they will include a youth teamer in every match day squad. Ole has spoken about this.

This record will never stop.
No they haven't.

Nobody even knew about it until 2012.
 
The only eligible candidates, as the OP outlined, are Mainoo, Fredricson, and Heaton since Collyer and Amass are going away on loan.
Fredricson doesn't look ready, he may need a loan as well. Heaton will not feature once we get a new keeper. We may make up the numbers by calling in Kone/Fletcher/Mantato into the 9 subs, but that's just to keep a name in there.

Mainoo is the only youth player left with quality to play for the first team, anyone else with quality is now gone. I wonder if that's another reason why our management blocked Mainoo's loan request. And I wonder if that's something that's on Mainoo's mind when he asked for the loan - all his buddies are gone. I wonder what the friend groups are like in the United camp.
 
Amorim today on the academy record:

“We want to maintain that, I don’t want to be the guy to break that record, or that idea. If you see the past of Manchester United, it's built on kids who grow up here for a long time. I think that should be our goal in the future, so I should try maintain that, that is for sure."
 
Amorim today on the academy record:

“We want to maintain that, I don’t want to be the guy to break that record, or that idea. If you see the past of Manchester United, it's built on kids who grow up here for a long time. I think that should be our goal in the future, so I should try maintain that, that is for sure."
Finally the journalists decide to ask meaningful questions.
 
Amorim today on the academy record:

“We want to maintain that, I don’t want to be the guy to break that record, or that idea. If you see the past of Manchester United, it's built on kids who grow up here for a long time. I think that should be our goal in the future, so I should try maintain that, that is for sure."
I think it would be great to maintain the record, but more importantly only if the players called up are genuinely good enough.

No one should be called up for anything else but merit. Its up to the club to maintain and increase standards in our academy to keep the record alive
 
I think people have to realize a lot of our good youth are out on loan instead of hanging around here. So I'm not really worried about the streak

Wheatley is showing good signs in Northampton and is further along than Chido, his overall game looks good.

Vitek is doing well in Bristol and should have a chance to fight for that #2 spot or even #1 when he comes back.

E. Williams is in Falkrik but showed good signs last season in his loan.

Amass would be easily rotated into this squad but he needs game time, but showed great talent as an 18yr old.

Harrison is also only 18 and already on loan which is really wild for someone so young

There's a few more on loan but these guys are probably the most standout ready to be playing professionally. I don't know if we can count Collyer but he's shown great signs too. And Moorhouse looked like he was going to debut at the end of last season.

Then we have probably the next group that are almost ready to take that next step and may even get a loan in the near future or practice with the first team more often. Mantato, Kamason, Biancheri, Fletcher Bros, Scanlon, Lacey, Ibragimov, Kukonki, and Thwaites. I actually think J. Fletcher will be with the 1st team if we become short in MF with injuries.