Could we have challenged for the title this year?

[Schneckerl]

Liverpool and City are just really strong this year. The former is on a 99 point pace right now.
We could have done some damage in direct matches against them though.

 

[Kag]

Because we have Pogba. Take him away and things are more even there. We're very light on quality in that area, although they're nothing special there either.

That’s like saying our attack is better if Liverpool didn’t have Salah.

 

[Raoul]

I may have missed this thread among all the others, but it has really got me thinking with this incredible run of form.

If we had Ole at the start of the season, could we have genuinely had a go at the title? Would we have been around Spurs level in third?

I’m going to be honest, I don’t see much difference in our squad and Liverpools. This is something we laughed at them for years for, because all indications show that we are miles behind them. However, if we had Ole and they had a midtable manager like Mourinho for more of the season with the same squads, I reckon we would be above them.

Absolutely. We would be on about 55 or more points if Ole managed us in the form we're in now.

 

[Revan]

Absolutely not. Our defence is no where near good enough to sustain a title challenge, in addition we have had poor performers in the final thrid who have contributed next to nothing in Lukaku and Sanchez. That being said there is no way we are the 6th best team in the EPL. I think we are more nearer to the 4th standard with Chelsea. Spurs, City and Pool are all better than us.

Spurs ain't better than us, in any way. We had a past it Mourinho who at stages was sabotaging us and we are just 4 points below them. I think that we will finish ahead of them anyway.

City and Liverpool are clearly better than us. I thought for Liverpool the same thing last year too, when we finished comfortably ahead of them in the table.

 

[Kag]

@Wumminator is right, by the way. Not for the first time either.

Our squad is not without its deficiencies (a centre half and proper right winger would help us hugely) but it would have been more than good enough to challenge under an attacking manager that wasn’t attempting professional suicide. Again, some of us have argued these things for a very long time.

 

[2cents]

That’s like saying our attack is better if Liverpool didn’t have Salah.

It's more an indication that while Pogba elevates our midfield above them, we perhaps don't have the strength in depth in that area to compensate in his absence. Whereas while they are maybe lacking that star quality in midfield, the removal of any one of their regulars there isn't going to affect them near as much as Pogba's absence would for us.

 

[Revan]

Because we have Pogba. Take him away and things are more even there. We're very light on quality in that area, although they're nothing special there either.

But we have Pogba though.

Take Salah away and their attack is not better than ours. Take Van Diijk away and their defense is not better than ours. Take De Gea away and our keeper is not better than theirs.

We have a better keeper and midfield, they have a better attack and defense. All things considered, they have a better team.

 

[bleedred]

We would have probably gained these additional points

Brighton away- 3 points
Palace home-2 points
West ham away-3 points
Spurs home-1 point
Wolves home-2 points
Southampton away-2 points

These results are not that impossible with this squad had Jose got them to perform like they are doing now.

We would have been close to city and possibly 3rd

 

[Kag]

It's more an indication that while Pogba elevates our midfield above them, we perhaps don't have the strength in depth in that area to compensate in his absence. Whereas while they are maybe lacking that star quality in midfield, the removal of any one of their regulars there isn't going to affect them near as much as Pogba's absence would for us.

That’s a fair point. Liverpool being such a well drilled ‘team’ is a big reason for that. I think they’re better than the sum of their parts, which is a lot to do with the work Klopp has done, you imagine. Hopefully we can get better at this so we rely less and less upon the individual quality of our ‘stars’.

 

[Random Task]

@Wumminator is right, by the way. Not for the first time either.

Our squad is not without its deficiencies (a centre half and proper right winger would help us hugely) but it would have been more than good enough to challenge under an attacking manager that wasn’t attempting professional suicide. Again, some of us have argued these things for a very long time.

Indeed.

Given our current form and the way we have approached games under Ole, would it be a stretch to suggest we would have claimed a further 12-15 points (plus possibly taking points from both City and Liverpool) had Ole been in charge from the start? If that's the case then we would be right in the mix.

 

[Obi-Red-Kenobi]

I may have missed this thread among all the others, but it has really got me thinking with this incredible run of form.

If we had Ole at the start of the season, could we have genuinely had a go at the title? Would we have been around Spurs level in third?

I’m going to be honest, I don’t see much difference in our squad and Liverpools. This is something we laughed at them for years for, because all indications show that we are miles behind them. However, if we had Ole and they had a midtable manager like Mourinho for more of the season with the same squads, I reckon we would be above them.

No, I don’t believe so.

I would say there is a real difference between UTD’s squad and Liverpool’s. I mean no offence, but your defence is not as strong, and this is reflected in goals conceded so far this season, and nor is your attack, with Salah, Mane and Firmino all outscoring all of UTD’s forwards in the last 12 months. Midfield? There’s a debate to be had. Pogba has eventually turned up, but outside of that, what else is there.

 

[jem]

I think we are a Virgil Van Dijk away from being a genuine challenger. Yes we have other areas that could be upgraded, but every team has that. Our defence is the one area that is too vulnerable - something that hasn't changed much even with the so-called new manager bounce.

 

[Joseunited]

If Ole had come in at the start of the season you'd have to assume he would have added to the squad in the areas that we needed sorting out.I would say we would definitely be up there with the top 2.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Not with the whole back 4 being not only a revolving door in terms of who starts, but all being of fairly questionable quality.

It's hard to believe that 2 and a half years after Mourinho of all people took the job, the defence is a mess. It's usually the part of the squad he gets set up first.


We need to ship out and replace a number of defenders this summer. If we'd have done that last summer, then who knows.

 

[glazed]

Not on current evidence. Ole's 100% record is based partly on a Jose rebound and weak opposition. Both are short term phenomena. We look like the third best team in the league if you strip that away. City and Liverpool both have a superior tactical structure.

 

[Feed Me]

We would have probably gained these additional points

Brighton away- 3 points
Palace home-2 points
West ham away-3 points
Spurs home-1 point
Wolves home-2 points
Southampton away-2 points

These results are not that impossible with this squad had Jose got them to perform like they are doing now.

We would have been close to city and possibly 3rd

We would only be three points off Liverpool with those extra points.

I am not sure whether we ought to be that close but we should have made a better fist of it this season.

Frustrating.

 

[red4ever 79]

Spurs ain't better than us, in any way. We had a past it Mourinho who at stages was sabotaging us and we are just 4 points below them. I think that we will finish ahead of them anyway.

City and Liverpool are clearly better than us. I thought for Liverpool the same thing last year too, when we finished comfortably ahead of them in the table.

Last time I checked Spurs were ahead of us in the table. Regardless of who our manager was. Actually think Spurs have a better team. They have a better back 4. They have a better number 10 and a better striker.

 

[Revan]

Last time I checked Spurs were ahead of us in the table. Regardless of who our manager was. Actually think Spurs have a better team. They have a better back 4. They have a better number 10 and a better striker.

That would be stupid then.

We had a manager who was clearly in fight with the club and the team, yet we are only 4 points below them (providing that the result stands). This Spurs/Poch worshipping must stop. Lads, it's Spurs.

 

[Acole9]

No definitely not, the scouse and City are a lot better than us. I honestly don't think Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs are better than us though, we can certainly give them a run for their money.

 

[red4ever 79]

That would be stupid then.

We had a manager who was clearly in fight with the club and the team, yet we are only 4 points below them (providing that the result stands). This Spurs/Poch worshipping must stop. Lads, it's Spurs.

Stop talking our of your biased arse. Spurs clearly are a better team than us. Better fullbacks, better CB's. Better Striker, better number 10.

 

[Revan]

Stop talking our of your biased arse. Spurs clearly are a better team than us. Better fullbacks, better CB's. Better Striker, better number 10.

Then why they are only 5 points ahead of us despite that we had a manager who wanted to get sacked and was actively sabotaging us? And why (with the same squads as now) we finished comfortably ahead of us last season. And why since SAF left and we became shit we won both domestic cups and Europa League while they have won feck all?

Spurs are great only in the imagination of some United fans. Who actually at this stage have become more Pochettino fans than United fans.

 

[red4ever 79]

Then why they are only 5 points ahead of us despite that we had a manager who wanted to get sacked and was actively sabotaging us? And why (with the same squads as now) we finished comfortably ahead of us last season. And why since SAF left and we became shit we won both domestic cups and Europa League while they have won feck all?

Spurs are great only in the imagination of some United fans. Who actually at this stage have become more Pochettino fans than United fans.

You are asking a lot of questions. Unfortunately life is full of ifs and whys. The league table is all you need to look at. They are 3rd which is absolutely right. They are the 3rd best team in England right now.

 

[Revan]

You are asking a lot of questions. Unfortunately life is full of ifs and whys. The league table is all you need to look at. They are 3rd which is absolutely right. They are the 3rd best team in England right now.

And if they lost the next match while Chelsea wins it, they will be the fourth best team, right? Because of logic.

 

[red4ever 79]

And if they lost the next match while Chelsea wins it, they will be the fourth best team, right? Because of logic.

Of course. How else do you judge who the better teams are. I can not think of a fairer way than the league table.

 

[Revan]

Of course. How else do you judge who the better teams are. I can not think of a fairer way than the league table.

When the margins are small, context plays a role too.

Liverpool didn't suddenly become the best team (from the fourth best) in England during the summer by buying Alisson. They were quite good last season despite finishing fourth.

We are quite good too, and since Mourinho was sacked, we have shown it. Both our squad and Spurs haven't changed that much, and we have been winning trophies, finishing ahead of them and despite being a joke this season with Mourinho, we are still in a fight to surpass them. Since Mourinho left, we got 18 points in 6 matches, while they (assuming that the game of today finishes as it is), only 10. Perspective, please. No need to become a robot whom only looks in the table.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Something I always looked at when considering title challenges was what point you played your major rivals away from home.

So far we’ve played Liverpool, City and Tottenham all away from home.

Those types of games even in Ferguson’s time tended to be hit and miss affairs - we were badly beaten by Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool at times.

However generally we outplayed and beat all of those sides at Old Trafford.

The top three all have yet to come to Old Trafford. If we were a bit closer to them at this point maybe we’d have challenged - but Liverpool have, in addition to playing well, seem to have that bit of luck going their way too at the minute so it would have been difficult to see us going above them or city ...

 

[Revan]

Something I always looked at when considering title challenges was what point you played your major rivals away from home.

So far we’ve played Liverpool, City and Tottenham all away from home.

Those types of games even in Ferguson’s time tended to be hit and miss affairs - we were badly beaten by Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool at times.

However generally we outplayed and beat all of those sides at Old Trafford.

The top three all have yet to come to Old Trafford. If we were a bit closer to them at this point maybe we’d have challenged - but Liverpool have, in addition to playing well, seem to have that bit of luck going their way too at the minute so it would have been difficult to see us going above them or city ...

Spurs defeated us in OT. City and Liverpool have to come to OT though (as has Chelsea).

 

[deafepl]

We have superior depth to Liverpool, if we get top CB and RW and perhaps fullback in summer, we'd be far ahead of Liverpool and much better squad and a better bench quality the likes of Sanchez, Fred, Lukaku on the bench. I think we're still behind City in the quality squad, even if we make signings in summer

 

[red4ever 79]

We have superior depth to Liverpool, if we get top CB and RW and perhaps fullback in summer, we'd be far ahead of Liverpool and much better squad and a better bench quality the likes of Sanchez, Fred, Lukaku on the bench.

A lot of our depth is crap though. We have 5 fullbacks and none of them are particularly good. We have like 6 CB's and at least 4 of them are crap.

 

[AltiUn]

I don't think so, while I feel our first 11 (particularly midfield and attack) are pretty strong, our defensive frailties and thin squad would show over the course of the season. Defence is the big sticking point, even with Smalling fit, on paper it's still not as good as either Liverpool, City or Spurs and possibly Chelsea too. We'd only be an injury to Pogba away from our midfield losing 90% of its creativity and we'd be relying on the still-adapting Fred to provide the creativity.

Thing is, if we signed a good RB and CB I think we could have a really decent chance challenging next year, although they'd have to be actual quality upgrades. Add in a DM and a RW and I'd be feeling really confident we could challenge.

 

[deafepl]

A lot of our depth is crap though. We have 5 fullbacks and none of them are particularly good. We have like 6 CB's and at least 4 of them are crap.

Just look at Liverpool's bench and squad options, I don't think we're much worse than them.

 

[MuranoLover]

Of course .

If we were in the game , there would be more pressure on City and the Other team .

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Not with our defence. No.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

We were second last season. Granted Jose didnt get everyone he wanted, we should have been looking to push on and at least challenged id say.

Spurs didnt buy anyone and are comforatably in third position.

Think if we played the way we've been playing of late, we'd definately be up there, in my opinion. We've dropped points against teams we should be beating.

 

[BlueHaze]

This is all speculation and none of us really know what could have happened but one thing I can say for sure is that under Ole we would most likely have had a better summer transfer window.

 

[bleedred]

We would only be three points off Liverpool with those extra points.

I am not sure whether we ought to be that close but we should have made a better fist of it this season.

Frustrating.

It’s not unrealistic for us to get those points. At a minimum, this squad was capable of getting atleast 10 points more in the first half of the season.

It was the same last year, we were clearly the second best team but we dropped points(10-15)against teams which we should be beating.

 

[Jeffthered]

No, not realistically. We are not good enough, not really. The squad needs some movement, (changes) and the style of play is still finding its rhythm. Much, much, much better though of course.

But battling for a top four should be where we are.

 

[Canagel]

Stop talking our of your biased arse. Spurs clearly are a better team than us. Better fullbacks, better CB's. Better Striker, better number 10.

I disagree. Spurs are not a better team than us. They have a better defence but we have better keeper, midfield and attack. Yes we have better attack. Only scored 2 goals less despite being stifled by the old tactics and despite the best efforts of our old manager to sabotage our season.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Nice question @Wumminator but not with that defence. It’s not of the standard required.

 

[red4ever 79]

I disagree. Spurs are not a better team than us. They have a better defence but we have better keeper, midfield and attack. Yes we have better attack. Only scored 2 goals less despite being stifled by the old tactics and despite the best efforts of our old manager to sabotage our season.

Kane is miles better than any striker we have. Eriksen is miles better than any creative midfielder we have. Son is at least as good as Martial. As for the RW we have Lingard or Mata, they have Lucas or Lamela. All 4 of those are crap.