I don't think we have the defence to challenge for the title.
I'm now looking at 3rd though.
I'm now looking at 3rd though.
Could we have challenged for the title this year?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
If lindleof was the same lindleof he is right now from the beginning of the season and mike had stayed rock solid fit from the beginning + ole then 100% yes. But those 3 factors are impossible to combine so I would say no - unless we had signed a solid non-injury prone center back to start with. It’s pathetic we had to deal with 1 liability in center defence every game
I agree. My feeling is that third is the the best we can achieve because City and Liverpool have teams which are the complete package. But we'll know a lot more we play the big boys in Feb.
the strikeforce is not just one player. Kane is very strong individually but the combined striekforce of Rashford, Martial, Lingard and potentially Sanchez is better than theirs. Pogba does everything Eriksen does and more - there's no comparisons there. All in all they're not better than us. They're another top 4 challenging team with strengths and weaknesses- just like us.
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Could you elaborate, please. Because I do not see this at all. Let's be serious.
No.
We're miles behind City and Liverpool are having their best ever PL season.
We would battle for third.
We're miles behind City and Liverpool are having their best ever PL season.
We would battle for third.
I don't know whether Ole could have managed it, but our squad is plenty strong and deep enough to challenge.
Our squad, as in Manchester United 2018/19 squad, deep enough? Not sure about that, we have converted winger playing as a full-back, plenty good enough backup CB's but missing one starting CB. Losing Pogba and even Herrera or Matic would be horrible as we don't have good enough replacements on the bench and we have no natural right wingers.
I did already. in the rest of the post. Perhaps you should elaborate? I have seen tendency to overrate other teams players on here whilst underrating our own and also can't help but feel people's just wants to make themselves feels better if Poch arrives and making them out into something they aren't. The clear two best strikeforces belong at City and Liverpool. After that I'd go for us and then Spurs followed by Arsenal and lastly Chelsea.
Defence Liverpool is first followed by Spurs and City, then Chelsea. United and Arsenal next.
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The rest of your quote seems to quote a stat on goals scored, and made reference to the tactics adopted by Mourinho. But it doesn't explain why you think our attack is better than Spurs.
Kane - Son - Alli / Erikssen / Moura (because they rotate from midfield and forwards..)
Rashford - Martial - Lindgard
And you think our attack is better than their's ?
I am not sure our midfield is better than Spurs (when all are fit). Dier. Dembele. Wanyama. Winks. Soussoko. (Alli / Erikssen / Moura occasionally play midfield, not Erikson against recently. He dropped deep and ran the game in the last 35 mins.
I think Spurs have a more balanced, and settled team, structure and way of playing. We are still looking for ours.
No. Our defence is simply not up to scratch. I think we would have made the top 4 quite comfortably, though.
Brighton away, Spurs home, Wolves home, West Ham Away, Palace at home are all very winnable games, and that's 13 points lost on its own, that's not even counting Arsenal at home.
I'm not saying we'd be right up there but we'd be a hell of a lot closer had we not had our previous manager seem to deliberately want to derail the club (how else do you justify playing Mctominay in defence with CBs on the bench?)
I'm not saying we'd be right up there but we'd be a hell of a lot closer had we not had our previous manager seem to deliberately want to derail the club (how else do you justify playing Mctominay in defence with CBs on the bench?)
Not challenging the title this year but firmly in the top 4 with better growth from the current squad. Squad growth is the most important thing for me for the remainder of this season.
Starting 2019/20 with the players levels above the performances this year is worth a number of signings and the likes of Rashford, and Lindelof have shown they are capable of the performances of starting for United every game.
Starting 2019/20 with the players levels above the performances this year is worth a number of signings and the likes of Rashford, and Lindelof have shown they are capable of the performances of starting for United every game.
No.. we had mister Moaninho moaning for most of the season about how his reputation could be damaged if he did not get his way. So when the manager had his own Ego as the main topic there was no way we could challenge for anyting. Thank God we have lost him and are now looking more like a Manchester United team. His style of play is something that could replace sleeping tablets. So I expect big pharma to come after Jose soon. Let's face it, he could put a sleeping tablet to sleep.
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Without Mourinho, we'd definitely be comfortably in the top 4. Challenging for the title would have been a stretch.
We would be in third place
Yes that is the point I made earlier too. We would be be pretty much around there.
No. We have a mish-mash defence, and still, after all these years, there isn't a player in the squad who can attack down the right flank. It's really very odd indeed. We could perhaps be fighting for third.
With Ole, I think we could have been ahead of Arsenal and Chelsea but title pretenders, like Spurs.
The right manager could figure out a way to use Lukaku or Mata a productive, if flawed, 3rd attacker without blunting Rashford and Martial, but we don't have the depth in midfield (Fred hopefully in time), the partner for Lindelof or the quality fullback play needed.
De Gea and Pogba are incredible, but as many have said, we need at least 2 starting defenders, a RW and probably another midfielder or Fred to live up to his price tag. Also while we're playing decent football, I have doubts about anything other than the sort of extreme system someone like Klopp, Guardiola or Sarri put into play. I think trying to do everything like Emery does and Ole might without completely dominating possession and/or pressing the opponent into submission might make hitting 90 points in the prem tough, and that seems to be what you need these days.
The right manager could figure out a way to use Lukaku or Mata a productive, if flawed, 3rd attacker without blunting Rashford and Martial, but we don't have the depth in midfield (Fred hopefully in time), the partner for Lindelof or the quality fullback play needed.
De Gea and Pogba are incredible, but as many have said, we need at least 2 starting defenders, a RW and probably another midfielder or Fred to live up to his price tag. Also while we're playing decent football, I have doubts about anything other than the sort of extreme system someone like Klopp, Guardiola or Sarri put into play. I think trying to do everything like Emery does and Ole might without completely dominating possession and/or pressing the opponent into submission might make hitting 90 points in the prem tough, and that seems to be what you need these days.
This makes no sense, were further behind than that now with half the season to go. If you expect us to close the gap on them surely you'd also say we'd be able to challenge for the title?
Don't forget Southampton away. 2-0 down to a manager that got sacked a few days later, good grief.
Would be my answer also
Who, besides City, has more depth than us?
The average league position of the teams ole has faced is 13.
I agree, things are great right now, the football has been good, everything feels about a million times better than it did a month and a half ago. I also agree that you can only beat whos infront of you and we've done that, at times, with style.
However, the only true test we've had was spurs and while we won it, you'd have to be mental to think spurs didn't bottle it.
I am all for seeing how the rest of the season goes before we appoint a new manager (and am certainly not opposed to ole being that manager) but to suggest we could have challenged city or liverpool is nonsense really.
I think half of what we've seen is the players bouncing after how dire things were under jose. Can that effect last the rest of the season? Who knows.
I agree, things are great right now, the football has been good, everything feels about a million times better than it did a month and a half ago. I also agree that you can only beat whos infront of you and we've done that, at times, with style.
However, the only true test we've had was spurs and while we won it, you'd have to be mental to think spurs didn't bottle it.
I am all for seeing how the rest of the season goes before we appoint a new manager (and am certainly not opposed to ole being that manager) but to suggest we could have challenged city or liverpool is nonsense really.
I think half of what we've seen is the players bouncing after how dire things were under jose. Can that effect last the rest of the season? Who knows.
Over a season Salah Mane and Firmino will score more goals than Rashford Lingard and Martial. With Jones Valencia Smalling Young Bailly Darmian and Rojo our defence wouldnt stop enough goals going in. I think we would have had the honeymoon period with Ole earlier on, but would have lost around 3 games by now. I think we probably would have been around 8 points better off than we are now. Close but not close enough.
No. We are nowhere near good enough defensively.
Had we beaten Brighton + West Ham instead of losing, and Wolves + Palace instead of drawing at home, we'd be 6 points off. That's even with the 3 convincing defeats and 2 draws against top 6 opposition under Mou, and a draw with Southampton. Then again it's not that simple.
No difference between us and Liverpool ? People still say this shit ? Jeez - just compare that back 4 for a start.
100% yes, not even debate worthy.
Man City and Liverpool are now well oiled machines. Instead we are like a test car - if everything works then great, otherwise, it needs replacing and we have too many parts that need replacing.
No. We needed investment to kick on from last season and didn't get it some obvious areas. We've been lacking quality and/or depth at certain positions (CB, FB, RW) and having Ole as manager doesn't magically solve those issues. Right now, we're similar to LVG's squad during that excellent run in 2015 where an injury or two could derail everything.
Not a chance, big difference between the top 6. LPool & City are a level above, then a gaggle of clubs with underlying issues (hopefully we won't be amongst them next season) all scrapping for 3rd and 4th.
Ideally you have a balanced team (LPool & City have very balanced, deep squads and strong defensive and offensive stats so far this season), we simply don't have the defensive structure to keep up but offensively things seem much more promising for next season, if we can find an RW we'll be same level IMO.
Ideally you have a balanced team (LPool & City have very balanced, deep squads and strong defensive and offensive stats so far this season), we simply don't have the defensive structure to keep up but offensively things seem much more promising for next season, if we can find an RW we'll be same level IMO.
With the current squad no, if we'd signed a top defender, RB and right winger then yeah it's possible we could be challenging.
With the same squad but Solskjaer taking over in August i think we'd be above or around Spurs/Chelsea.
With the same squad but Solskjaer taking over in August i think we'd be above or around Spurs/Chelsea.
If you recall, we had an awful preseason. That wasn’t the manager’s fault although it did seem to spark the beginning of the end with a few things that happened e.g. the Martial baby incident.
So I think a combination of poor preseason + not signing a centre back + RW are still legitimate concerns no matter who the manager was. In the last few games, our weaknesses at CB / RW are there to see. With these problems, you can’t expect to be challenging for the league when you are up against teams like City and L’pool who rarely drop points.
Having said all that, I think would be doing much better with OGS since he would have got the team playing better attacking football and making up for the CB frailties as we’ve seen in the games since we took over.
So I think a combination of poor preseason + not signing a centre back + RW are still legitimate concerns no matter who the manager was. In the last few games, our weaknesses at CB / RW are there to see. With these problems, you can’t expect to be challenging for the league when you are up against teams like City and L’pool who rarely drop points.
Having said all that, I think would be doing much better with OGS since he would have got the team playing better attacking football and making up for the CB frailties as we’ve seen in the games since we took over.
No , but top 3 is possible
I'm still not sure that we'll finish top 4 so talk of mounting a title challenge had Ole been in charge for the duration of the season seems slightly silly.
We probably wouldn't be playing this well or have the same atmosphere around the Ole appointment if it was made in the summer. There would be a lot more skepticism, there would be a lot less patience around making a permanent appointment. Our season being on the verge of dead and buried changed the dynamic.
Probably not is my answer regardless. If we finished this season tomorrow and started a fresh one I wouldn't be that confident of finishing top after 38 games. Liverpool and City have better squads. Their squads are suited to their gameplan as opposed to a random collection leftover from 3 different managers (4 I guess, Ferguson still has a few players around). They've had 2+ seasons to iron out the kinks.
They're both just quite good at the moment, we have a fair bit of room to improve.
Probably not is my answer regardless. If we finished this season tomorrow and started a fresh one I wouldn't be that confident of finishing top after 38 games. Liverpool and City have better squads. Their squads are suited to their gameplan as opposed to a random collection leftover from 3 different managers (4 I guess, Ferguson still has a few players around). They've had 2+ seasons to iron out the kinks.
They're both just quite good at the moment, we have a fair bit of room to improve.
Like most have said here, the positivity wouldn't have been the same if he were hired in summer. Ole's tactical nous is yet to be tested, but that's what would have been the main talking point.
Also, given our shambles of a defence, we would have inevitably dropped off points here and there. I do think we'd firmly be in top 4, now, though. Just above Spurs.
Also, given our shambles of a defence, we would have inevitably dropped off points here and there. I do think we'd firmly be in top 4, now, though. Just above Spurs.
Challenged is different to winning. No chance this side would win the title but we could have challenged till say December definitely and this side is good enough to comfortable be top 4.
RB, CB, RW and CF away from a title win IMO.. first three minimum are needed.
RB, CB, RW and CF away from a title win IMO.. first three minimum are needed.
Since his appointment we have won 6/6, so we would have had 69 points and at top of the table with 9 point gap 