Challenging yes, winning No. There is lot of stuff in the team which needs to be fixed or ironed out.
Could we have challenged for the title this year?
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
One can only dream!
What is most noticable since Ole took over is obviously the points but also the goal difference which is on par with Liverpool.
If the Prem started when Ole took over:
1. Manchester United, 17-4, +13, 18 pts
2. Liverpool, 17-6, +11, 15 pts
3. Tottenham, 17-7, +10, 12 pts
4. Manchester City, 14-7, +7, 12 pts
5. Arsenal, 11-9, +2, 10 pts
6. Southampton, 9-8, +1, 10 pts
7. Chelsea, 5-5, 0, 10 pts
8. Burnley, 8-10, -2, 10 pts
9. Watford, 9-7, -2, 9 pts
10. Leicester City, 8-8, 0, 9 pts
11. Crystal Palace 9-9, 0, 7 pts
12. Wolves, 8-12, -4, 7 pts
13. West Ham, 5-9, -4, 7 pts
14. Bournemouth, 8-14, -6, 7 pts
15. Everton, 10-11, -1, 6 pts
16. Brighton, 5-8, -3, 5 pts
17. Fulham, 5-9, -4, 5 pts
18. Newcastle, 5-9, -4, 5 pts
19. Cardiff, 2-11, -9, 5 pts
20. Huddersfield, 3-12, -9, 1 pts
What is most noticable since Ole took over is obviously the points but also the goal difference which is on par with Liverpool.
If the Prem started when Ole took over:
1. Manchester United, 17-4, +13, 18 pts
2. Liverpool, 17-6, +11, 15 pts
3. Tottenham, 17-7, +10, 12 pts
4. Manchester City, 14-7, +7, 12 pts
5. Arsenal, 11-9, +2, 10 pts
6. Southampton, 9-8, +1, 10 pts
7. Chelsea, 5-5, 0, 10 pts
8. Burnley, 8-10, -2, 10 pts
9. Watford, 9-7, -2, 9 pts
10. Leicester City, 8-8, 0, 9 pts
11. Crystal Palace 9-9, 0, 7 pts
12. Wolves, 8-12, -4, 7 pts
13. West Ham, 5-9, -4, 7 pts
14. Bournemouth, 8-14, -6, 7 pts
15. Everton, 10-11, -1, 6 pts
16. Brighton, 5-8, -3, 5 pts
17. Fulham, 5-9, -4, 5 pts
18. Newcastle, 5-9, -4, 5 pts
19. Cardiff, 2-11, -9, 5 pts
20. Huddersfield, 3-12, -9, 1 pts
Interesting question this thread presents.
If we can assume Ole would have had a bad in summer transfers, the answer is yes, we would have been challenging for the PL trophy.
Ole would have secured a proper upgrade at CB, which would have made a huge difference early in the season when all our CBS, especially Bailly, we’re struggling.
The threat title asks whether we would have challenged for the title — not whether we would have run away with it. Yeah, we definitely would have challenged for the title.
If we can assume Ole would have had a bad in summer transfers, the answer is yes, we would have been challenging for the PL trophy.
Ole would have secured a proper upgrade at CB, which would have made a huge difference early in the season when all our CBS, especially Bailly, we’re struggling.
The threat title asks whether we would have challenged for the title — not whether we would have run away with it. Yeah, we definitely would have challenged for the title.
We would still be only the third best team in the league. I reckon if Ole had started the season, we would be where Spurs are right now, more or less. Catching City and Liverpool would still require some time.
Challenged is different from winning, but if you think we'd have no chance of winning it then that's not a challenging team, nor is mention of December. A team who challenges for the title does have a chance of winning it even if it's an outside chance. They go into the last 4 or 5 games of the season with at least a hope they might still do it, 6 or 7 points back at the very most pushing the eventual title winners to the last couple of games if they fail to win it themselves.If you don't do that you didn't challenge for the title.
That’s a fair point but all I said was that this side would challenge for a while before falling away eventually. So yes not challengers in the true sense of the word - agreed.
I had to take a break from the CAF yesterday after reading this. Talk about blind faith
We could have challenged like Spurs have challenged but I don't think we would have came close to winning it.
Maybe the argument could be made that a new manager would have had the board backing him last summer in signing a CB and RW but that's just too vague to be a factor.
Maybe the argument could be made that a new manager would have had the board backing him last summer in signing a CB and RW but that's just too vague to be a factor.
Would be inclined to agree with you. We would have been around the 3rd spot and not so many points behind the top two, but we are still a distance way from them. I feel like every summer we say we need players, and have been saying that since SAF left. Needed this summer would be a RB, CB, RW at a minimum. Ideally you would add a CDM and a LB to that but I cant see that happening.
With the team we've got/had we should have challenged for the league every season...
I don't think so. Despite our 2nd placed finish, as a collective we are far behind City and Liverpool and it'll take some time for a new manager to build that. It's essentially what Mourinho failed at. That doesn't get fixed instantly.
People are taking for granted that Ole is a better manager than Jose. Sure, he is better than the infamous 3rd year version of Jose but is he better in general?
I very much hope that he is but to form such an opinion on the basis of 7-8 games strikes me as naive.
Basically, Ole is still an unknown quantity and to expect him to go toe-to-toe with Klopp and Guardilola is quite optimistic. He might turn out to be their equal but it is too early to tell.
I very much hope that he is but to form such an opinion on the basis of 7-8 games strikes me as naive.
Basically, Ole is still an unknown quantity and to expect him to go toe-to-toe with Klopp and Guardilola is quite optimistic. He might turn out to be their equal but it is too early to tell.
Good post.
Look at the games we lost under Jose and the same kind of games we won under Ole. We may have been beaten by Liverpool away and City away but the rest were all winnable matches. That would put us where Liverpool is right now.
Comfortably 3rd I feel, maybe even close to City’s current points (sadly feel like they’d push away leaving us quite far behind Top 2 come end of the season). Overall impossible to say, had Ole started season at the helm we may not be on this winning run right now, the odd disappointing draw or defeat may have had an affect on the players, I’m a huge fan of Ole, love the change it mood & atmosphere, maybe even a little more than improved style & great results! but everything has been close to perfect for Utd since he arrived so (hope it doesn’t) when a draw or defeat comes against a side we feel we should be beating happens, that’ll be telling as to how much we’ve improved under Ole.
What I would say, is when/if an unexpected bad result comes, it’s not the end of world, doesn’t mean we’re terrible or the winning streak gave a false sense of improvement. Even at our best under Fergie, the seasons we dominated there were a few shocking results that in this day and age gets blown up over social media & deemed a crisis with calls for a manager to get fired. A few results that stick out for me
2011/12 - 1-0 Defeat away to Wigan which would have basically sealed the League Title
2009/10 - Leeds at Home FA Cup 3rd Round
2006/7 Carling Cup - Southend
2005/06 - Bottom of Champions League Group Containing Lille, Villareal & Benfica
2003/04 - Porto Champions League (Went on to Win but still shocking when it happened)
1995/96 - League Cup York City
So rather than thinking we’d be champions had we been playing like this since the start and equally let’s not get carried away in the opposite direction when the run ends, let’s enjoy watching a United that for the 1st time since Sir Alex actually looks like it is full of players enjoying their football & as fans we we are finally excited & looking forward to the next game again!
What I would say, is when/if an unexpected bad result comes, it’s not the end of world, doesn’t mean we’re terrible or the winning streak gave a false sense of improvement. Even at our best under Fergie, the seasons we dominated there were a few shocking results that in this day and age gets blown up over social media & deemed a crisis with calls for a manager to get fired. A few results that stick out for me
2011/12 - 1-0 Defeat away to Wigan which would have basically sealed the League Title
2009/10 - Leeds at Home FA Cup 3rd Round
2006/7 Carling Cup - Southend
2005/06 - Bottom of Champions League Group Containing Lille, Villareal & Benfica
2003/04 - Porto Champions League (Went on to Win but still shocking when it happened)
1995/96 - League Cup York City
So rather than thinking we’d be champions had we been playing like this since the start and equally let’s not get carried away in the opposite direction when the run ends, let’s enjoy watching a United that for the 1st time since Sir Alex actually looks like it is full of players enjoying their football & as fans we we are finally excited & looking forward to the next game again!
I honestly think Mourinhos constant moaning, negative team selections and tactics cost United 12 points this season. That would have put us on the same as City and 4 behind the scousers. They would have definitely been in the title race had it not been for the poisonous one. Wouldn't it be great if Solskjaers United went on to beat the 81 points Mourinho got last season. How bad would the Portuguese prat look then having overseen such a terrible start.
It is quite amusing to see United fans go through exactly the same motions we've been going through over the years.
The present phase is much like when Kenny first took over from Hodgson.
The present phase is much like when Kenny first took over from Hodgson.
You have a decent squad, but you are not on par with us and certainly not with City. To compare with Liverpool, you need to find a VVD, a Robertson and also a forward who averages a goal per game like Salah - then you might compete for the title. Rashford is flying atm but he doesn’t win you enough games. Having that player (Salah, Aguero, Kane) is worth 12-15 points at least.
In a word No. Not with our defence, not with our midfield and not with our attack.
That said we should be higher than we are.
That said we should be higher than we are.
No. Unless the OP sees in OGS the ability to forge a team that has a consistent system ala Klopp and Guardiola and Pochettino (the only thing holding Poch back is squad depth and a bit more quality to their first side). I'd have to see more games to determine that. Didn't watch him at Molde and Cardiff unfortunately
That is how I see it, United and Tottenham seem quite similar although I do feel that we have a stronger squad while their first team are better.
Ole maintains our target is third which is perfectly realistic.
We have to hope that they struggle with their injuries and we do not but yet again they managed to find a way to win against Fulham.
Ole > Kenny
But yes there have been quite a few false dawns since Fergie left and fans (including me) have begun to clutch at any positives we can find. We are top of the form league right now for example
Though it has to be said that we have also managed to win a few cups in these 'disaster' years unlike Pool
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes.
If liverpool can i dont see why we cant.
I mean there squad isnt that much better than ours.
If liverpool can i dont see why we cant.
I mean there squad isnt that much better than ours.
Maybe not their squad but VVD, Robertson & Salah are significantly better than anything we have in those positions.
Doubt it, we are still some way off, particularly in terms of exerting full control over games. We've done well but had a monster DDG performance vs. Spurs and a couple of games were we worryingly lost a grip of games which looked done and dusted. That's not champions form, more like a very welcome purple patch and foundations to build on.
We finished above you last season chum. All this talk about us being miles behind you and City is completely overblown as will be witnessed throughout the rest of the season and into next.
We could've achieved top 4. Jose is right when he said 2nd was a great achievement. The only thing is since he didnt get his players in the summer he spread negativity all through preseason. In a way he did get the fans to stand up to Woodwards incompetence but all it took was him being sacked and signing a legend to be manager for people to forget about the leeches at the club. We signed Fred, Dalot and Grant ffs. Is that the kind of summer we need to challenge? No. Woodward thought he knew better though. But once again another manager gone and Woodward still leeching money for the glazers with his Vincent Kompany sized head. We need a world class CB, we need a top quality LB, with Darmian leaving and Dalot being 19 we need a RB at the right age like Hysaj. We need a RW, we have Lingard starting there. The guys older than Pogba. He goes missing a lot. Is not the best finisher. Cant cross and he doesnt have the best vision. He is a 'link player' yeah sure for a club like Everton maybe but not United. I'd keep him for cover but not as a starter, he has poor output. They are all priority positions. Matic also needs cover but it seems mastermind Woodward believes McNothing will be good enough.
He was just demonstrating the point in this post - Liverpool fans getting giddy before they have won anything!
QED
Really comes down to VVD for me. Pogba gives our midfield the edge and the attacks are similar, with Salah being the best out of the bunch. But VVD allows them to be much more solid at the back than we are, and I think they have better fullbacks than us as well.
This
Regardless of who the manager is going forward ( Ole or Poch ) I think the squad is as good as Liverpool’s.Jose had just given up on them and couldn’t motivate them hence why we are so far behind the scousers ,
But the addition of 2/3 players would give us a squad capable of challenging for the prem
I think we are on par with spurs, chelsea and asenal atm. City are way ahead of us and it pains me to say it but so are Liverpool.
Im enjoying the resurgence under oles attacking philosopy but when we are defending you can see limitations in the midfield and defence. We are at least 4 players real quality players short of being challangers. Centre half, RFB, RW and holding midfield/playmaker - thats without examining the strikers. Id sell lukaku and buy a quality striker who can not only finish but link play. Lukaku has his attributes but link up isnt one of them.
in SAF day we always had 4 top strikers to rotate, we are short in that department.
Sell fellani/lukaku/darmian/rojo/ - replace with better Quality players
Im enjoying the resurgence under oles attacking philosopy but when we are defending you can see limitations in the midfield and defence. We are at least 4 players real quality players short of being challangers. Centre half, RFB, RW and holding midfield/playmaker - thats without examining the strikers. Id sell lukaku and buy a quality striker who can not only finish but link play. Lukaku has his attributes but link up isnt one of them.
in SAF day we always had 4 top strikers to rotate, we are short in that department.
Sell fellani/lukaku/darmian/rojo/ - replace with better Quality players
Inevitably no, according to United's biggest fan:
https://www.givemesport.com/1445659...d-team-can-win-the-premier-league?autoplay=on
I wonder if he really is a United fan at all.
https://www.givemesport.com/1445659...d-team-can-win-the-premier-league?autoplay=on
I wonder if he really is a United fan at all.
No of course not. Challenging for 2nd and finishing 3rd is where we should have been with this squad and defence.
Unless we make some significant investment then that'll be Ole's (or new manager) realistic target next season.
Unless we make some significant investment then that'll be Ole's (or new manager) realistic target next season.