Countering Liverpool/City formations

[Pass and Move]

We've seen many teams in the last few seasons starting to adopt a similar formation and playing style. A variation on 4-3-3 with inverted wingers coming inside and fullbacks who push up to provide width. The midfield three are either possession based like Barca/City, high-energy like Liverpool, or a balanced mix like Madrid.

What do you think is the right approach to countering this style, and nullifying its effectiveness? Assuming a squad of similar talent, what approach would you take against these teams?

Other than going toe-to-toe and adopting the same tactics, what system would you like to see Ole employing against these teams?

 

[Raw]

I thought we nullified Liverpool quite well at Old Trafford. If it weren't for the crazy injury crisis we would have beat them.

As for City, worst thing you can do is let them have the ball as it'll only be a matter of time until you concede. Got to press them hard, as risky as that may be. Though if we can counter attack well, especially with James' pace, that could also be an option.

 

[AltiUn]

I thought we nullified Liverpool quite well at Old Trafford. If it weren't for the crazy injury crisis we would have beat them.

As for City, worst thing you can do is let them have the ball as it'll only be a matter of time until you concede. Got to press them hard, as risky as that may be. Though if we can counter attack well, especially with James' pace, that could also be an option.

I always found the most difficult thing to counter about City was their off the ball movement, they're constantly moving, finding space and overlapping, it can be almost impossible to stop unless you have a team capable of matching their movement.

 

[Pass and Move]

I thought we nullified Liverpool quite well at Old Trafford. If it weren't for the crazy injury crisis we would have beat them.

As for City, worst thing you can do is let them have the ball as it'll only be a matter of time until you concede. Got to press them hard, as risky as that may be. Though if we can counter attack well, especially with James' pace, that could also be an option.

I always found the most difficult thing to counter about City was their off the ball movement, they're constantly moving, finding space and overlapping, it can be almost impossible to stop unless you have a team capable of matching their movement.

Agreed, but maybe I didn't phrase the question right. Rather than just individual matches where we out-work them, what system could most effectively counter what appears to be the favored formation of most of the top teams nowadays? What set-up would cause them to re-think their own strategy?

 

[NoLogo]

Do what Mou did against them. Park the bus and hope for the best.

In all seriousness. If you want to know how to nullify those teams, watch the 0-0 between those two last season. They both did a marvelous job of denying each other to play the way the want.

 

[ExecutionerWasp001]

I thought we nullified Liverpool quite well at Old Trafford. If it weren't for the crazy injury crisis we would have beat them.

As for City, worst thing you can do is let them have the ball as it'll only be a matter of time until you concede. Got to press them hard, as risky as that may be. Though if we can counter attack well, especially with James' pace, that could also be an option.

We have a decent record against Klopp's Liverpool in general.

We've nullified City quite well too during Pep's tenure although without having the results to go with it. Pep has won the 3 league derbies at OT but these were down to our mistakes rather than City creating opportunities. We were overrun in the first half of 17/18 at the Council House although still went on to win the game. We were well beaten last year but the team were in the process of throwing Mourinho to the wolves.

We have shown we can stifle both teams for long periods. These teams are going to dominate possession against us when we play them this coming season as we are only just implementing our new style under OGS. We won't get anything out of these games if we continue gifting goals.

 

[Gopher Brown]

The shame is not being able to match either team when actually playing ‘football’

Sitting back, letting them have the ball then counter attacking seems to be very hit-or-miss, and is ruined if you concede an early goal. Or any goal.

 

[Samid]

Make three subs before half time. That will disrupt their flow.

 

[adexkola]

Do what Mou did against them. Park the bus and hope for the best.

In all seriousness. If you want to know how to nullify those teams, watch the 0-0 between those two last season. They both did a marvelous job of denying each other to play the way the want.

Go back to the PL weekday thread where that match occurred. A lot of people on here wrote the match off as boring, but it was a fascinating match from a tactical perspective... You had Pep denying Liverpool opportunities to capitalize on mistakes in his half, and Klopp being more patient with possession to deny City the ball.

So yeah. Become better at holding the ball. City can't hurt you without it.

 

[adexkola]

The shame is not being able to match either team when actually playing ‘football’

Sitting back, letting them have the ball then counter attacking seems to be very hit-or-miss, and is ruined if you concede an early goal. Or any goal.

It is possible. If you have a midfield that is strong in both phases of the game, Liverpool will have a torrid time coping with that.

 

[devlinadl]

We've seen many teams in the last few seasons starting to adopt a similar formation and playing style. A variation on 4-3-3 with inverted wingers coming inside and fullbacks who push up to provide width. The midfield three are either possession based like Barca/City, high-energy like Liverpool, or a balanced mix like Madrid.

What do you think is the right approach to countering this style, and nullifying its effectiveness? Assuming a squad of similar talent, what approach would you take against these teams?

Other than going toe-to-toe and adopting the same tactics, what system would you like to see Ole employing against these teams?

Not sure I agree that this is how City play. Liverpool certainly use inverted wingers, with the full backs providing the width. However, with City, the wingers stay much wider and provide the width. The full backs instead push more centrally into midfield, allowing the midfielders to push forward into the final third. This is why Pep can use midfielders as full backs (because they are auxiliary midfielders anyway) and can play with two number 10s rather than two number 8s.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Go back to the PL weekday thread where that match occurred. A lot of people on here wrote the match off as boring, but it was a fascinating match from a tactical perspective... You had Pep denying Liverpool opportunities to capitalize on mistakes in his half, and Klopp being more patient with possession to deny City the ball.

So yeah. Become better at holding the ball. City can't hurt you without it.

It was dull though! Tactically I thought you learnt more when Spurs played City, particularly in the CL.

 

[Chipper]

I don't really talk about tactics that much, and you might find out why soon, but I'll take a stab at this. If I'm countering it rather than just trying to impose my own game on them I suppose I'd first look at 3 CBs to pick up their front 3 as they come narrow and build off that. Would want some kind of wide threat with pace to counter on their full backs when they come forward, or to make them slightly wary of getting forward as often in the first place. High energy midfield of my own. That would be the basics.

Formational variations of 3-5-2, 3-4-3 and 3-6-1 to be considered and I could break those further into 4 lines and different, more precise shapes. Things like 3-2-4-1 with a square made up of 2 DMs and 2 CMs or a 3-2-3-2. Feel like I want to throw out a somewhat unusual suggestion of 3-4-1-2 as well where the two up front split very wide and the nominal AM/pseudo false 9 helps out the midfield a lot for a bit of fun - are their CBs going to go wide too, or will their full backs have to stay at home? There are many possibilities and I could be here all night going through them all. But yeah, 3 CBs and wide threat would be the overriding theme.

 

[Bwuk]

Sit deep and let Liverpool’s midfield have the ball. They aren’t very creative. Keep the forwards high on the full backs, neither Robertson or TAA are great in the air, and use that as the opportunity to counter.

City’s back line struggle when pressed.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Lpool - Sit deep, discipline-defend well and quick counter attack them. Also, target their RB and the other CB (not VVD) I suppose.
(Mou's and Ole's strategies vs them in past games works. Not really a problem of tactics, our players motivations can be the problem.)

MCity - Crazy mad press their backline. And literally kick their midfielders. They love tactical fouls. Give 'em, Kicks for kicks (Need to train first our players how to do consistent legal tactical fouls.). Hopefully once their supply are totally cut off, they'll maybe relying on high balls which our defenders can then bully their forwards on the air (most of our defenders will be dead on the ground contests).

Ole have to play McTominay and the other good natural pressers eg. James and Fred.
McTominay and Fred as our two CDMs should be the core for these games. AWB and Shaw are no doubt necessary.

 

[Alemar]

What do you think is the right approach to countering this style, and nullifying its effectiveness?

One option would be to adopt the same style themselves. Another one is to become better at pressing than City is at keeping possession.