Trust them with what data exactly? Knowing if I prefer Asda to Tesco?
If GCHQ want to hack my Facebook account I highly doubt they need to rely on an NHS app to do it.
Covid tracing phone apps: UK Germany Ireland etc
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
If GCHQ want to hack my Facebook account I highly doubt they need to rely on an NHS app to do it.
Absolutely no chance I’m downloading it.
The gov don’t want to hack your Facebook account. Obviously that could be done pretty easily. They want mass data that they wouldn’t otherwise have.
Giving away your freedom will open up more and more doors to take it away. There’s no way it’ll end well, especially if this dim country keeps electing people that care more about capitalism than the people.
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Slightly unrelated, but I sat on one where they had numbers and times for phones calls and texts but no actual recordings or messages. This was on a fairly big case involving a drug operation where they’d been spying on them from a tower block for months. Kinda mad that they didn’t have any messages. It was about 8 years ago so I suspect it’s easier to get that kind of thing now, but I expected it then.
One of the recruitment agencies that's hiring contact tracers emailed applicants to say that applications aren't currently being considered due to delays with the app. That's now been denied, and the agency say the email was a mistake.
Meanwhile the government's advisory body on the app is debating whether it's allowed to give advice suggesting that they're developing the wrong version of the app or if that's outside its territory.
Plus the first some of the advisors etc heard about the possible new app (using the Apple/Google APIs) was when the FT revealed it. Which makes you wonder how much of a role the ethics and oversight board actually plays.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...sory-board-split-over-ditching-government-app
As targets tend to get met (like "sending out tests" is the new test irrespective of whether the test gets completed, collected and results delivered) - I reckon we'll see the app released this month. Though whether it'll be working in any meaningful way is another matter.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-wrongly-told-hiring-paused-in-latest-misstep
Meanwhile the government's advisory body on the app is debating whether it's allowed to give advice suggesting that they're developing the wrong version of the app or if that's outside its territory.
Plus the first some of the advisors etc heard about the possible new app (using the Apple/Google APIs) was when the FT revealed it. Which makes you wonder how much of a role the ethics and oversight board actually plays.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...sory-board-split-over-ditching-government-app
As targets tend to get met (like "sending out tests" is the new test irrespective of whether the test gets completed, collected and results delivered) - I reckon we'll see the app released this month. Though whether it'll be working in any meaningful way is another matter.
Reactions from the IoW field trial are starting to be collated and it appears to be that it needs (at least) another round of trialling of an updated version (maybe on the IoW again) before they try and roll it out further. Notably, the app hasn't had a lot of work to do so far as there aren't many cases on the island - so presumably most alerts so far will be test/dummy runs by the NHS themselves.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52709568
Quite a few of the question marks around the trial version seen to be related to the actual app UI and when/how it can incorporate actual covid test results rather than the current "someone you met says that they have symptoms" version. So presumably the developers will be learning something useful from the work, even if they end us discarding the app in favour of the Apple/Google decentralised model.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52709568
Quite a few of the question marks around the trial version seen to be related to the actual app UI and when/how it can incorporate actual covid test results rather than the current "someone you met says that they have symptoms" version. So presumably the developers will be learning something useful from the work, even if they end us discarding the app in favour of the Apple/Google decentralised model.
I don't mind the privacy aspect so much (and frankly I find it ridiculous that the country doesn't already store a DNA profile of every citizen and person entering the country for instance), but you know they'll manage to spend a fortune, feck the whole thing up, and then probably have the data hacked at some point. For some reason having the wealth and resources of a nation state also means you can't run an effective IT program despite thousands of private corporations managing it just fine.
Been looking through the GitHub for the first time in a few days and it doesn't look like they're making much progress with the iOS problems, it still doesn't work property if two locked, unknown iPhones come together for the first time. The app won't work.
There is a workaround, but its a bit risky. iPhones can't normally be woken by unknown bluetooth devices, but it turns out if you craft a partner app on an Android in the right way it will wake up an iOS device even if its unknown. But that's a security bug and its not unreasonable to think Apple might patch it, in which case the iOS app stops working. Clever method, if you're a tiny developer looking create some utility app, but kind of crazy for a Government to be building such an important app on the back of a bug.
There is a workaround, but its a bit risky. iPhones can't normally be woken by unknown bluetooth devices, but it turns out if you craft a partner app on an Android in the right way it will wake up an iOS device even if its unknown. But that's a security bug and its not unreasonable to think Apple might patch it, in which case the iOS app stops working. Clever method, if you're a tiny developer looking create some utility app, but kind of crazy for a Government to be building such an important app on the back of a bug.
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Also the privacy notice only says data will be reviewed every 6 months and that it may be used for research i.e. there is no commitment to deleting it.
Not exactly the kind of policies you’d pursue if you wanted public faith in an app that is supposed to be vital to containing the virus.
At least all the data is in safe hands with the leader overseeing it.
England will have a world class track and trace system in place and operating by the end of May...
Major problems with the app by the sounds of things.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...e-operating-fully-until-september-coronavirus
https://www.theguardian.com/society...e-operating-fully-until-september-coronavirus
Blows my mind why they've not engaged either network operators, Apple, or Google. The ability for them to deliver something & working would have been done by now.
Whatever happened to THE APP?
Well it wobbled and didn't quite do what anyone wanted, and now it's wobbled into another round of trials with vague comments about an alert from an app being too impersonal for big news. But that's ok, because now it's not a priority so maybe sometime in the winter it'll leave the Isle of Wight:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53083340
Germany's app (based on the google/Apple decentralised api) has gone live.
https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2020/06/germany-and-japan-to-launch-decentralised-covid-19-apps/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_campaign=New EandT News - Automation FINAL - MEMBER&utm_medium=Newsletters - E&T News&utm_content=E&T News - Members&utm_term=904650
Spain is now trialling an app on La Gomera (one of the smaller Canary Islands)
Meanwhile the EU have agree a general technical framework for how national apps can add cross-border support, but it uses the decentralised (Google/Apple) model rather than a central database, so may not be a Europe wide solution.
France and the UK are still going down the centralised route, but actually it's fair to say that no one's app is doing useful much work at the moment.
We may get some results from Germany over the next couple of months - it's had over 5m downloads in it's first few days.
Well it wobbled and didn't quite do what anyone wanted, and now it's wobbled into another round of trials with vague comments about an alert from an app being too impersonal for big news. But that's ok, because now it's not a priority so maybe sometime in the winter it'll leave the Isle of Wight:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53083340
Germany's app (based on the google/Apple decentralised api) has gone live.
https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2020/06/germany-and-japan-to-launch-decentralised-covid-19-apps/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_campaign=New EandT News - Automation FINAL - MEMBER&utm_medium=Newsletters - E&T News&utm_content=E&T News - Members&utm_term=904650
Spain is now trialling an app on La Gomera (one of the smaller Canary Islands)
Meanwhile the EU have agree a general technical framework for how national apps can add cross-border support, but it uses the decentralised (Google/Apple) model rather than a central database, so may not be a Europe wide solution.
France and the UK are still going down the centralised route, but actually it's fair to say that no one's app is doing useful much work at the moment.
We may get some results from Germany over the next couple of months - it's had over 5m downloads in it's first few days.
Its pretty clear its been going badly from the GitHub. It reads from the outside like a flailing project. Lot of issues were raised and the devs didn't really seem able to answer any of them. They were using workarounds rather than first party features to get the apps working, but nothing seemed robust enough to work on tens of millions of phones, as would be needed. Android phones are too different from each other to use such workarounds consistently, and iOS is too tightly locked down.
Then all progress stopped. It turns out they were working in private and just occasionally dumping copies of the code on GitHub. Then it seemed that copies being uploaded to Google Play were different from what you could compile from GitHub, meaning the app was no longer open source. Now the GitHub is dead with no real progress in weeks. The iOS app on the app store hasn't been updated in ages.
If they're saying its another couple of months, my guess is they've stopped work and are starting again with a different framework.
I said this in the main Covid thread but there is no system for track and trace at a local level. The data gets handed to PHE but we have no data sharing agreement to access the data and no system to import it into. Each council has been instructed to find their own solution so we now have Microsoft trying to flog Dynamics to everyone without anyone really knowing what they're supposed to be doing. It's a shambles.
As in data manually collected by contact tracers?
I assume so yes. I'm not working on it myself but work with the guy in our place who is.
Remember Boris promise.
We will have a world class phone tracing app in place by the end of June.
Silly me. I thought he meant 2020.
We will have a world class phone tracing app in place by the end of June.
Silly me. I thought he meant 2020.
U turn is becoming a bit of a theme for this government, so much time wasted when we could have just got the experts onto this immediately.
Who could have guessed?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...irus-app-in-favour-of-apple-and-google-models
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...irus-app-in-favour-of-apple-and-google-models
Everyone pointed this out to them at the outset, Its not like it was foiled by some obscure technical minutiae. It was simple hubris to try and go for their own model, a novice app developer could have told them they were attempting the impossible. But as per usual, they didn't listen.
We are specialists in failure.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53105642
Surprisingly Apple were not aware of the UK government working on a hybrid app, nor have the government spoken to Apple yet.
Surprisingly Apple were not aware of the UK government working on a hybrid app, nor have the government spoken to Apple yet.
It's Raab's fault - he assumed that Apple grew from the Beatles' record company so he asked Ringo for consultation on the app.
Nothing surprising about it.
You're missing my sarcasm.
At least Cummings mates have made a tidy profit once again and not had to actually deliver anything.
I'm there with you on the lack of surprise.
But it does seem quite amazing given that they are rapidly losing support and are likely trying their best right now to appear competent, that they are still making such a complete mess of everything they touch.
Mind boggling. It’s like they are trying to recreate the feckin wheel.
It’s just an app with a few yes or no questions that then tracks exactly where your phone has been.
Typical embarrassing British government thinking they know better than anybody else.
I bet you we can use this app as a keyhole look at how Boris the clown will ‘lead’ outside off the EU.
My generation are by far the least equipped to prosper after Brexit especially with this muppet at the helm. Who votes for a man who cant raise the inclination to dress or groom himself sufficiently, let alone lead a nation.
This is not a failure. It is a designed speed bump. It’s been an enrichment program for wealthy mates to move us closer to the original plan.
And Downing Street still say that they've been working closely with both Apple and Google. It just keeps getting better
They meant they've googled Apple and now they're waiting for the Carphone Warehouse helpdesk to get back to them.And Downing Street still say that they've been working closely with both Apple and Google. It just keeps getting better
it reminded me of when you were a kid and you'd like to your dad when he asked him mum said it was ok to eat all the chocolate in the house.Trump's & Johnson's time in charge has truly revealed how powerless the rest of us are to do anything about everything from their constant lying to more serious & sometimes deadly matters. More worryingly, it appears that there's neither the will, legislation or numbers necessary to remove them, so the public are left at their mercy. And the media's been shown up for what it is.
Politicians are always behind public opinion. They are spineless by definition. Only if it is politically safe to do something would they do it.
Imo, the ultimate blame lies with the public. We have the responsibility to educate ourselves.
At the moment, we just elect the people we think we want and forget about it.
That's not good enough.
There’s a Covid 19 exposure logging on my iPhone. I didn’t download anything and can’t delete it. It just seems a dormant app waiting to be activated? Under settings and health.
Its not an app as such, its an API for covid-19 tracking apps to use. It doesn't do anything until you download an app that utilises it.
Ah ok, thanks for the reply
Just a few early observations on "Coronavirus warn app". I'd be interested to hear some first hand reports from people in Germany using/not using it, or German technical press commentary on it, if anyone has anything.
According to the German ambassador to the UK, the app has now been downloaded 16m times and the system is up and running. The code has been published as open source and they're in contact with the UK on any technical queries that the app developers here may have.
An interesting article on take up so far, the limitations and issues etc:
https://www.dw.com/en/loved-or-loathed-how-germanys-coronavirus-tracking-app-is-faring/a-53959165
According to the German ambassador to the UK, the app has now been downloaded 16m times and the system is up and running. The code has been published as open source and they're in contact with the UK on any technical queries that the app developers here may have.
An interesting article on take up so far, the limitations and issues etc:
https://www.dw.com/en/loved-or-loathed-how-germanys-coronavirus-tracking-app-is-faring/a-53959165
Pah.
Who wants a test and trace app that works.
Not Boris.
He wants a word leading test and trace app that doesn't work and never get rolled out.