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2021-22 Performances


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5.8 Season Average Rating
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Oly Francis

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Some guy on the internet talking down Ronaldo based on xG, very 2022. Watch the games with your own eyes and leave the computer stuff in another room.
Is it more absurd than counting the goals he scored to determine his level this season? I don't think so. I watched the games, this test didn't make him look better.
 

United in sin

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Using the UCL as a metric to know if we are better or not than last year, I do not see it as accurate. The best measurement to know how the team really is precisely the Premier League. The UCL is a short tournament, there are lots of examples where mediocre teams have reached the final or even won the competition, while in their League they are shit.
I'm not entirely dismissing what you're saying because the league is indeed key. However, winning the UCL remains one of the toughest things to accomplish in the game.

It's a 'short' tournament but it's played across a season so other factors like current form and and injuries come into play.

You can't approach the CL the same way an international coach would approach the world cup for instance. The quality of opposition is higher as well, with almost game having something at stake.

How many genuinely mediocre teams/squads have actually won the CL in the last decade or even since inception (after rebranding from the European cup)? Chelsea gets mentioned a lot simply because they've won it twice while having bad domestic campaigns, but they weren't mediocre in both tournies.

They won their respective groups each time they won it and beat Real Madrid and Barcelona in the semis. Porto beat Monaco in 2003 and both teams had great tournaments. The rest of the times it's been won by the traditional big clubs with good squads
 
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Gehrman

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Interesting to see how much shit he's getting. You'd swear we were successful and he's come and fcuked it all up.

The complaints about his all round play are valid though. But I also reckon they're more vociferous because it's Ronaldo, and it's always polemic with him.
I think it's excatly because it's Ronaldo. Essentially how much club like Man Utd build around a almost 37 year old player who's the highest paid player in the PL and commands one of largest fanbases in the world. How much does his current ability command his worth on the pitch?
 

VanDeBank

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Using the UCL as a metric to know if we are better or not than last year, I do not see it as accurate. The best measurement to know how the team really is precisely the Premier League. The UCL is a short tournament, there are lots of examples where mediocre teams have reached the final or even won the competition, while in their League they are shit.
But Ronaldo isn't the only change between last season and this one.

How about last season the manager didn't implode and lose the dressing room?
And how about Maguire and Shaw playing like the two worst defenders in the league this season?

We were second before him and now 7th with him.
This type of result based analysis is only valid if Ronaldo is the only variable, and he's not.
 

RUCK4444

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Should have had a hat trick last game. He’s getting in the right positions, we just need to improve the collective performance, sustain attacks and he will do what he does best.
 

RedRonaldo

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But Ronaldo isn't the only change between last season and this one.

How about last season the manager didn't implode and lose the dressing room?
And how about Maguire and Shaw playing like the two worst defenders in the league this season?


This type of result based analysis is only valid if Ronaldo is the only variable, and he's not.
I’ve read Ronaldo is solely responsible for everything here - our poor defending, our lack of build up play and poor passing in midfield, and our lack of pressing up front. He is probably the first ever player in entire football history who is responsible for everything, and he is currently our top goalscorer who has probably scored more match winning goals than everyone else in Europe.
 

VanDeBank

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I’ve read Ronaldo is solely responsible for everything here - our poor defending, our lack of build up play and poor passing in midfield, and our lack of pressing up front. He is probably the first ever player in entire football history who is responsible for everything, and he is currently our top goalscorer who has probably scored more match winning goals than everyone else in Europe.
Maybe Sancho keeps pranking Harry and that's why he's in diabolical form?

Maybe Rafa is super toxic in the dressing room? I mean who knows right? :houllier:

Actually we should consider selling Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane and we'd finish 2nd no problem :D
 

troylocker

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Some guy on the internet talking down Ronaldo based on xG, very 2022. Watch the games with your own eyes and leave the computer stuff in another room.
The problem is that watching him is even more painfull. He mishandles the ball all the time, he doesn't do negative runs (except a couple in the first half last game), he doesn't do that quick pressing when we lose the ball and has a body language that drains the energy out of you. He's not quick like he used to be and he is pushed off the ball painfully often....
 

troylocker

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I’ve read Ronaldo is solely responsible for everything here - our poor defending, our lack of build up play and poor passing in midfield, and our lack of pressing up front. He is probably the first ever player in entire football history who is responsible for everything, and he is currently our top goalscorer who has probably scored more match winning goals than everyone else in Europe.
I'm definitely one of those who criticize him a lot, and I think he's the key root cause of our problems this season. That doesn't mean he is directly responsible for 100% of it, as it is more complex than that. Do I think our general play would improve without him: 100% yes.

Sick that our starting #9 is topscorer for us and has had a lot of matchwinners (4 total, 2 of those from the penalty spot) for a team that has won 6 out of its 10 wins with him by 1 goal. Is that the most in Europe, or was that just something you threw out there? Fact: It's not the most in Europe.

He still provides quality and magic now and then, but that is not enough.
 

FattyFooty

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I’ve read Ronaldo is solely responsible for everything here - our poor defending, our lack of build up play and poor passing in midfield, and our lack of pressing up front. He is probably the first ever player in entire football history who is responsible for everything, and he is currently our top goalscorer who has probably scored more match winning goals than everyone else in Europe.
Its Ronaldos fault. All of it!

I mean we had the most consistent attack in the league. We had players scoring 20+ goals in the league for fun.
 

troylocker

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Maybe Sancho keeps pranking Harry and that's why he's in diabolical form?

Maybe Rafa is super toxic in the dressing room? I mean who knows right? :houllier:

Actually we should consider selling Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane and we'd finish 2nd no problem :D
Manchester United in the Premier League this season:

With Ronaldo on the pitch:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,44
Average goals conceded per 90: 1,81
Average points won: 1,56

With Sancho on the pitch:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,38
Average goals conceded per 90: 0,85
Average points won: 1,87

With Varane on the pitch:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,64
Average goals conceded per 90: 0,68
Average points won: 2,13

Last season:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,92
Average goals conceded: 1,16

Playing with 10 men without the ball gets ugly against most teams in 2022.
It is hard to find evidence anywhere that Ronaldo has improved us, as a team.
 

VanDeBank

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Manchester United in the Premier League this season:

With Ronaldo on the pitch:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,44
Average goals conceded per 90: 1,81
Average points won: 1,56

With Sancho on the pitch:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,38
Average goals conceded per 90: 0,85
Average points won: 1,87

With Varane on the pitch:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,64
Average goals conceded per 90: 0,68
Average points won: 2,13

Playing with 10 men without the ball gets ugly against most teams in 2022.
It is hard to find evidence anywhere that Ronaldo has improved us, as a team.
Yep obviously good sample sizes and the players mentioned are the only unchanged variables.

Results based analysis, you love to see it.
 

troylocker

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Yep obviously good sample sizes and the players mentioned are the only unchanged variables.

Results based analysis, you love to see it.
So you think it's conincidental that the stats are bad with him and not without him this season and that we were a lot better at every parameter last season? What other samples can we measure his effect on this team with?
 

NewYorkRed

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Yep obviously good sample sizes and the players mentioned are the only unchanged variables.

Results based analysis, you love to see it.
Not really. Those numbers are skewed. Sancho and Varane for example did not play in the Liverpool and City (Sancho didn’t start the City game) games. Sancho was also taken off against Watford and Varane didn’t play that game at all.

So no, numbers alone do NOT tell the story, sorry.
 

Gehrman

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So you think it's conincidental that the stats are bad with him and not without him this season and that we were a lot better at every parameter last season? What other samples can we measure his effect on this team with?
I don't think one can make it so simplictic really. In the 2nd season with Mourinho we finished 2nd, in his 3rd season we completely crashed untill he was sacked. Same manager, same team. We also scored more goals the season after Ronaldo went to Madrid. Still I don't think any of us would wanted him sold if we had a choice. You got to factor in Maguire and Shaw being woefull this season.
 
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troylocker

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Not really. Those numbers are skewed. Sancho and Varane for example did not play in the Liverpool and City (Sancho didn’t start the City game) games. Sancho was also taken off against Watford and Varane didn’t play that game at all.

So no, numbers alone do NOT tell the story, sorry.
So would the results have been the same with Sancho and Varane on the pitch in those matches? Was it coincidence that we crumbled after Sancho was taken off against Watford (on 1-1)?
Sancho presses 16,3 times per 90, Ronaldo presses 6,0........

You can compare the same parameters with and without every player in our squad with Ronaldo, and we will come out on the bottom with him. AWB and Lindelof are the only players where it is close. On goals conceded per 90 he is only beaten by Lindelof.
 
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RedRonaldo

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So you think it's conincidental that the stats are bad with him and not without him this season and that we were a lot better at every parameter last season? What other samples can we measure his effect on this team with?
No one ever, and I mean it literally, no one ever analyse a striker's involvement/impact in the game, in terms of the average goals conceded for the team. Usually those are attributes to defenders, keepers and even DM. As stupid as it sounds, Ronaldo is probably the first ever striker/forward player being held solely responsible for this.
 

Gehrman

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No one ever, and I mean it literally, no one ever analyse a striker's involvement/impact in the game, in terms of the average goals conceded for the team. Usually those are attributes to defenders, keepers and even DM. As stupid as it sounds, Ronaldo is probably the first ever striker/forward player being held solely responsible for this.
Happens to Messi all the time when barca were knocked out of the CL or Argentina went out of the world cup. Doesn't make it right though.
 

phelans shorts

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No one ever, and I mean it literally, no one ever analyse a striker's involvement/impact in the game, in terms of the average goals conceded for the team. Usually those are attributes to defenders, keepers and even DM. As stupid as it sounds, Ronaldo is probably the first ever striker/forward player being held solely responsible for this.
it’s been stated as the reason PSG are talked about never winning the big one ever since they got bought, it’s been a very consistent talking point around football since high pressing became a talking point when Pep was starting out at Barcelona. Stop talking such nonsense.
 

troylocker

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No one ever, and I mean it literally, no one ever analyse a striker's involvement/impact in the game, in terms of the average goals conceded for the team. Usually those are attributes to defenders, keepers and even DM. As stupid as it sounds, Ronaldo is probably the first ever striker/forward player being held solely responsible for this.
You like claiming "ever" a lot in your posts without doing the research don't you?

The reason you don't see that often is because you rarely see a free passenger like this in a top flight.
When you have the worst pressing numbers per 90 of all the strikers in the top 5 leagues, and the numbers for conceded goals with and without you looks like they do, it's not that crazy really. And who says he's the only reason? I am saying that he is a big part of our problem.
The defense and midfield will of course suffer when we are doing less pressing in the last third and the midfield from the front. If everyone else get's 5% more workload because one man only puts in 50% it will affect your overall game.
The numbers indicates that we will concede less and create more without him. I'm not claiming that we will not automaticly be fixed by just removing him, but it would be a good start.
 
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Gehrman

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You like claiming "ever" a lot in your posts without doing the research don't you?

The reason you don't see that often is because you rarely see a free passenger like this in a top flight.
When you have the worst pressing numbers per 90 of all the strikers in the top 5 leagues, and the numbers for conceded goals with and without you looks like they do, it's not that crazy really. And who says he's the only reason? I am saying that he is a big part of our problem.
The defense and midfield will of course suffer when we are doing less pressing in the last third and the midfield from the front. If everyone else get's 5% more workload because one man only puts in 50% it will affect your overall game.
The numbers indicates that we will concede less and create more without him. I'm not claiming that we will not automaticly be fixed by just removing him, but it would be a good start.
As long as Maguire and co. are having their worst season ever I'd still point my finger at them mainly for our defense.
 

Anustart89

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Manchester United in the Premier League this season:

With Ronaldo on the pitch:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,44
Average goals conceded per 90: 1,81
Average points won: 1,56

With Sancho on the pitch:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,38
Average goals conceded per 90: 0,85
Average points won: 1,87

With Varane on the pitch:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,64
Average goals conceded per 90: 0,68
Average points won: 2,13

Last season:
Average goals scored per 90: 1,92
Average goals conceded: 1,16

Playing with 10 men without the ball gets ugly against most teams in 2022.
It is hard to find evidence anywhere that Ronaldo has improved us, as a team.
feck me, we should stick Varane up front then, it'd probably be three goals per 90 if we had him up top.
 

troylocker

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feck me, we should stick Varane up front then, it'd probably be three goals per 90 if we had him up top.
Top notch post! That was excactly what I meant.
Let's see what happens when he misses 4-5 games in a row or if RR has the balls to drop him.

I understand that it is hard for the most hardcore Ronaldo-fans to see that he's no longer the right fit for us, but that doesn't make it untrue. Denial is a common state.
I think Ronaldo has had one of the best careers in football and his goalscoring records is simply amazing, but he's far from the player he was when he was on his best.
 

Gehrman

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Top notch post! That was excactly what I meant.
Let's see what happens when he misses 4-5 games in a row or if RR has the balls to drop him.

I understand that it is hard for the most hardcore Ronaldo-fans to see that he's no longer the right fit for us, but that doesn't make it untrue. Denial is a common state.
I think Ronaldo has had one of the best careers in football and his goalscoring records is simply amazing, but he's far from the player he was when he was on his best.
The question is Ronaldo hindering our team from scoring more goals as a collective or are our forwards and Bruno simply just much worse this season regardless?
 

RedRonaldo

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You like claiming "ever" a lot in your posts without doing the research don't you?

The reason you don't see that often is because you rarely see a free passenger like this in a top flight.
When you have the worst pressing numbers per 90 of all the strikers in the top 5 leagues, and the numbers for conceded goals with and without you looks like they do, it's not that crazy really. And who says he's the only reason? I am saying that he is a big part of our problem.
The defense and midfield will of course suffer when we are doing less pressing in the last third and the midfield from the front. If everyone else get's 5% more workload because one man only puts in 50% it will affect your overall game.
The numbers indicates that we will concede less and create more without him. I'm not claiming that we will not automaticly be fixed by just removing him, but it would be a good start.
Because it is.

And regarding pressing, we are never a pressing team under Ole anyway. Greenwood is one of worst presser in the league, and Martial is probably the laziest striker in the league too. You don't get to see them being held reponsible for the goals we've conceded.

You really think it make any sense at all that we shouldn't blame defenders like Maguire for making errors after errors which lead to us conceding more goals, but instead you go for the one who is up furthest front, who happens to be our top goalscorer?
 

The United

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Apparently, RR rates him highly so far?

It is kind of funny how many people kept and still keep predicting that he would be one of the least RR's favorite player to play in his system.

Not that I don't think he has been perfect so far. But the hyperbola BS people spouts on here is amusing at times.
 

NZT-One

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Apparently, RR rates him highly so far?

It is kind of funny how many people kept and still keep predicting that he would be one of the least RR's favorite player to play in his system.

Not that I don't think he has been perfect so far. But the hyperbola BS people spouts on here is amusing at times.
Difficult conclusion isn't it? I mean, we are talking about CR7 here. Benching him would instantly be the most alpha action Rangnick has done in his whole career. Apart from that he is by far our most reliable goalscorer. In total and this season too. Don't think the conclusion that Rangnick likes him or doesn't like him or thinks he is good for his system can be made. Also lets be real - if any Fred is the most Rangnick player in our squad. And he gets benched for Matic today... Whats more likely, that Rangnick compromises or that all we know about him was wrong?
 

The United

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Difficult conclusion isn't it? I mean, we are talking about CR7 here. Benching him would instantly be the most alpha action Rangnick has done in his whole career. Apart from that he is by far our most reliable goalscorer. In total and this season too. Don't think the conclusion that Rangnick likes him or doesn't like him or thinks he is good for his system can be made. Also lets be real - if any Fred is the most Rangnick player in our squad. And he gets benched for Matic today... Whats more likely, that Rangnick compromises or that all we know about him was wrong?
Yup. That surprised me too if we go along with the general opinion here.

All managers compromise unless you are Pep or at that level. RR might be 'great' but nowhere near that level. And it would be smart of him to compromise a bit too.
 

Pronewbie

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If you’re a competent manager who wants to win and transform the dressing room mentality, Ronaldo’s adaptability, stature, professionalism and winning mentality is a god-sent.

You just need to keep his temperament in check.
 

NZT-One

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Yup. That surprised me too if we go along with the general opinion here.

All managers compromise unless you are Pep or at that level. RR might be 'great' but nowhere near that level. And it would be smart of him to compromise a bit too.
Yeah, I agree. Lets hope these things work out in the end
 
Man Utd 0:1 Wolves

bosnian_red

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He should be an impact sub player. Bring him on when you're chasing a goal. From the start he's far more detrimental than a positive. Provides nothing off the ball. Provides 0 build up or link up play. Useless at holding up the ball. Just gives it away.

Stop forcing him into the team, it's a black hole for our attacks.
 

Bebestation

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He offers absolutely nothing.

He cannot finish like he used to.

The guy is my GOAT but he is bloody 37 and we might aswell get Pele from being 90.

I just can't stand him anymore.

Hope he tries his best to somehow win the CL this year - that's unlikely but if it doesn't happen, I really don't mind us being in the Europa league so this guy fecks off and retires in America.