[Bebestation]

I was saying that before we signed him. With Juve and Portugal the last few years more often than not if you stop Ronaldo you stop his team from winning. There’s no plan B. It seemed to be a bit of a strange basket to put all our eggs into with an old but effective striker already here and our already obvious problems with the press and a lack of aggression pre Cavani. I’ve enjoyed Ronaldo so far but today was what I was trying to talk about in other threads. Greenwood and Pogba look like they don’t know how to play with him. Hopefully we figure it out ASAP.

Yeah. I mean look at how we plan to score goals now. Our main attack style is a cross in for Ronaldo. We cross so much.

Did we really ever do this before he came? Even if we struggled to break down teams- did we spend all our time crossing the ball in to the box and hoping Ronaldo is on the end of it?

I don't remember that being the case.

Some blame the quality of the supply- hey we need better quality of crosses reaching Ronaldo.

I think some just realise that the game style has changed to get the best out of Ronaldo rather than alot of different players.

Bruno Fernandes in particular was getting in to SS positions before but is now creating more for Ronaldo as his duty.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Completely anonymous today. Not sure if you can really level much blame at him, the service was nonexistent.

I’m not convinced he will work well with Greenwood and/or Rashford. Needs less selfish players around him. I’d try him with Sancho for a full game.

 

[Ali Dia]

Yeah. I mean look at how we plan to score goals now. Our main attack style is a cross in for Ronaldo. We cross so much.

Did we really ever do this before he came? Even if we struggled to break down teams- did we spend all our time crossing the ball in to the box and hoping Ronaldo is on the end of it?

I don't remember that being the case.

Some blame the quality of the supply- hey we need better quality of crosses reaching Ronaldo.

I think some just realise that the game style has changed to get the best out of Ronaldo rather than alot of different players.

Bruno Fernandes in particular was getting in to SS positions before but is now creating more for Ronaldo as his duty.

I agree and I also said it when he was signing we were 17th in the league for completed crosses. Something doesn’t add up. We haven’t added better crossers. We also already had an excellent header of the ball on the books. It just smacks of opportunism and sentimentality. Sometimes these things work out and other times they don’t. I’m sure Ronaldo will get 20 goals this season but if all the opposition have to do is close down Ronaldo and Greenwood then we are looking like we may end up having a frustrating season. We need more as a team than just repeatedly feed Ronaldo percentage balls and hope for the best.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I’m worried that Ole doesn’t have the stones to sub him off other than in completely exceptional circumstances. Taking off a midfielder to get on a striker was a weird/terrible decision that handed the initiative to Villa. And Ronaldo was a busted flush long before Cavani came on. I think he’s going to be the end of Ole as United manager.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree and I also said it when he was signing we were 17th in the league for completed crosses. Something doesn’t add up. We haven’t added better crossers. We also already had an excellent header of the ball on the books. It just smacks of opportunism and sentimentality. Sometimes these things work out and other times they don’t. I’m sure Ronaldo will get 20 goals this season but if all the opposition have to do is close down Ronaldo and Greenwood then we are looking like we may end up having a frustrating season. We need more as a team than just repeatedly feed Ronaldo percentage balls and hope for the best.

Ronaldo would be a fantastic addition to our squad if used as a squad player. It’s the idea that a 36 year old can be a nailed on starter (and finisher) in our best XI that will probably see Ole sacked before the season’s out.

 

[SirAF]

Ronaldo would be a fantastic addition to our squad if used as a squad player. It’s the idea that a 36 year old can be a nailed on starter (and finisher) in our best XI that will probably see Ole sacked before the season’s out.

There are a lot of reasons why OGS will/should be sacked, playing Ronaldo as #9 is not one of them. The build up and midfield are the key issues, not having Ronaldo up top.

 

[Bebestation]

Ronaldo would be a fantastic addition to our squad if used as a squad player. It’s the idea that a 36 year old can be a nailed on starter (and finisher) in our best XI that will probably see Ole sacked before the season’s out.

And exactly this.

This is why I keep reminding people he is 36.

He needs to be a squad player. He shouldn't be tactically built around as a key player for every game for a PL title winning team. His strengths and weaknesses can change the way the team is playing.

 

[SilentWitness]

Ronaldo is like the Rodriguez signing for us. He is a non entity in defence so you're basically one player down in terms of a phase of play but the ability they have in attack is why you have them in the side. That's fine if you have a good enough midfield and defence behind them to afford that but you really don't with McFred.

 

[el3mel]

Ronaldo is like the Rodriguez signing for us. He is a non entity in defence so you're basically one player down in terms of a phase of play but the ability they have in attack is why you have them in the side. That's fine if you have a good enough midfield and defence behind them to afford that but you really don't with McFred.

I don't see the comparison. Different position. Ronaldo is playing as a striker, the biggest defensive job you'll ask from him is to press the opposition defense or head the balls in set pieces. James is a number 10, and number 10s have to help in the defensive situations.

 

[SilentWitness]

I don't see the comparison. Different position. Ronaldo is playing as a striker, the biggest defensive job you'll ask from him is to press the opposition defense or head the balls in set pieces. James is a number 10, and number 10s have to help in the defensive situations.

Look at how hard Cavani works compared to Ronaldo.

 

[Ali Dia]

Ronaldo would be a fantastic addition to our squad if used as a squad player. It’s the idea that a 36 year old can be a nailed on starter (and finisher) in our best XI that will probably see Ole sacked before the season’s out.

Yeah it could be. I think we finally had a nice thing going with Cavani for one more year and Greenwood as his understudy. Possibly Haaland or some other monster who is yet to peak to come in long term. Hindsight is 20:20 but I feel like we’ve looked predictable since Ronnie came in. You didn’t need a plan B with Ronaldo in his prime he was that good but he’s stoppable now. I saw it with Juve quite a bit when I happened to see them. Press Ronaldo hard, cut off his space. He’ll still try and try and get a shot off. Frustration builds until it becomes palpable and the rest of the team don’t have a plan b. You can’t sub him off, it’s drama and bad vibes. I don’t know if we needed that much of a tweak for a player whose peak is behind him as much as it was a feel good signing. I’m happy to see him back but wasn’t and am not sure it was the right way to go this season.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There are a lot of reasons why OGS will/should be sacked, playing Ronaldo as #9 is not one of them. The build up and midfield are the key issues, not having Ronaldo up top.

There are plenty of other reasons to criticise Ole, yes. If he isn’t willing or able to manage 36 year old (soon to be 37) Ronaldo’s minutes as a number nine then that can definitely be added to the list.

 

[el3mel]

Look at how hard Cavani works compared to Ronaldo.

Cavani works harder indeed but that's in terms of helping build up the attacking play and such. He drops deep, passes, and presses. He doesn't share in the defensive situation bar what I said : pressing defenders and heading balls in set pieces. Ronaldo doesn't share that much in the attacking build up and is mostly static up front but I don't think not being in the defense is an issue because the defensive roles asked from the striker isn't that big anyway.

 

[steffyr2]

Much stuff and.... b) the team doesn't press up front because of Ronaldo.

Yes, that's likely. Did Ronaldo fly in last year and play incognito to keep the team from pressing then too?

Mason couldn't shoot and wouldn't pass. Villa must have decided he's harmless and let him play with the ball to his hearts' content.
No one can cross -- ever!
The best chance of the game was Ronaldo running up the left and passing across the box. Wound up with Pogba kicking the ball over the goal.
Well, best chance except Bruno kicking the penalty over the goal.

All those players in the midfield and defense couldn't stop anyone.

 

[SirAF]

There are plenty of other reasons to criticise Ole, yes. If he isn’t willing or able to manage 36 year old (soon to be 37) Ronaldo’s minutes as a number nine then that can definitely be added to the list.

He’s not 37 until February, you don’t have to exaggarate to boost your point!

I agree his minutes will have to be managed (like they were when he sat out the Carabao match), but he clearly should be the first choice #9 and subbing him off when you’re chasing a goal is not really a good idea. What you need to change is the creativity behind him, if anything. The creative players were creating feck all for him - and this is a player with some of the best movement you’ll ever find.

Look at the Portugal game a few weeks ago, he had a tumescent match before he popped up with two goals in the end to win it.

Edit: Oh nuts, you edited while I was typing you old bastard!

 

[united_99]

I’m worried that Ole doesn’t have the stones to sub him off other than in completely exceptional circumstances. Taking off a midfielder to get on a striker was a weird/terrible decision that handed the initiative to Villa. And Ronaldo was a busted flush long before Cavani came on. I think he’s going to be the end of Ole as United manager.

He didn’t even have the stones to sub off Rashford with 3 injuries, limping and already getting off pitch treatment against Villarreal, let alone Ronaldo.
Exciting times ahead!

 

[SilentWitness]

Cavani works harder indeed but that's in terms of helping build up the attacking play and such. He drops deep, passes, and presses. He doesn't share in the defensive situation bar what I said : pressing defenders and heading balls in set pieces. Ronaldo doesn't share that much in the attacking build up and is mostly static up front but I don't think not being in the defense is an issue because the defensive roles asked from the striker isn't that big anyway.

By defence I am counting pressing which Ronaldo doesn't really do. Whether it's his age now or his style of play, it's a detriment.

 

[el3mel]

By defence I am counting pressing which Ronaldo doesn't really do. Whether it's his age now or his style of play, it's a detriment.

That I agree on, he indeed doesn't press as hard as Cavani.

 

[bakalhau]

Adding to the posts above, I think every team needs to play to Ronaldo's strengths, obvisouly you oughta do this with every player in the team, and that's harder to execute than in theory. He creates a lot and usually makes it easy for his teammates by basically setting himself free in the box and adjacent areas and creating a very easy line of sight and an easy pass for teammates. Case in point, RM really squeezed Ronaldo to the max of his incredible positioning and brain, and the plays at several points in time were designed one or two seconds before they actually started. Everyone knew how to play together and to each other's strengths.

Two examples of this are the classical Ronaldo/RM goals of a back low pass into the area, and a low finish by Ronaldo:

Skip to 4:15, RM vs Atletico CL semifinal
CL final against Juventus

And that's where RM excelled. Everyone just knew it, when Ronaldo handed you the ball like in the two videos above, teammates knew he'd find space behind the defensive line and just wait for the right moment. The focal point was Ronaldo in key several seconds of the game, and Ronaldo would make it easy for teammates as long as they didn't complicate and whenever he created an easy pass for them, they no frills just passed to him for a shooting position. In RM it was just smooth, very smooth team play, and Benzema played a part on it and worked together very nicely with Ronnie.

The important thing here, for me, is that Ronaldo should be the focal point, specially when he ditches defenders so easily, and makes it so easy for teammates to look good. But this requires some time, a collective thought to take advantage of him, and knowing each other *very well*, which is very hard with just one month of playing.

But the coach and teammates need to realize that this focal point on Ronaldo needs to be on these micro decisions on several key moments throughout the game. He cannot be, and doesn't need to be, a focal point of the strategy itself. If you play purely for him, defenders will cut it off easily, and you cannot spend a game bombing crosses to the areas. Ronaldo can link very well in small, advanced spaces (quick example 1, quick example 2), and with him up front you can play whatever kind of football you like. You cannot construct plays purely for him, or bomb crosses in. You need to play football for everyone, and 5 or 6 times a game, Ronaldo will create game for others by being world class and finding himself alone in a shooting position, and that's where I believe the decision making needs to be simplified and have him get the ball instead of anyone else.

I'm a firm believer if there's any guy on the pitch today in world football in a shooting position, no one will do it better than this fella. But even then, I've learned throughout the years that a team that purely plays for him, is actually undoing his brilliance because as a target man he'll have 3 defenders in on him. Just play normal football like a team, and let Ronaldo drift and stay out of the game and out of the plays. The more in the shadows he is, the easier it is for him to ditch a defender. If every cross goes to him, and if your strategy revolves around going wide and putting 30 crosses in, it's not going to work.

Sorry for the long post guys.

 

[Tomuś]

Lots of lazy reactions about his defensive contributions.

No problem with that for me I just thought he was weird today attacking-wise. Like total antithesis of himself, no hunger or anger whatsoever.

EDIT: as for those complaining we allegedly changed into a crossing team because of him - we've been complaining about that literally since Moyes so also lazy excuses.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Every game we lose, it's "our best attackers didn't press and run around enough". I'm sick of it.

I thought at least a 36 year old world class Ronaldo would bring some sanity, but no, still the same story.

 

[spiriticon]

I saw him running around quite a bit today I thought, and he dropped so deep at times into midfield I wondered if he would have the juice to make it back to the box to get onto the end of a cross.

His workrate isn't a problem so far, but I imagine it would be after he's played about 30 games this year.

 

[Sultan]

This will be an unpopular post. But hey, bring it on we need to take some steam out.

We need to assess his performances and not that he is Ronaldo. If Ronaldo's performance was from say Martial he would be slated big time.

 

[Buster15]

Look at how hard Cavani works compared to Ronaldo.

That is a very fair point.

 

[Mickeza]

Ronaldo would be a fantastic addition to our squad if used as a squad player. It’s the idea that a 36 year old can be a nailed on starter (and finisher) in our best XI that will probably see Ole sacked before the season’s out.

I agree. But I think Ole will drop him for certain games. Nobody thought he’d not be on pens yet Ole did that.

 

[steffyr2]

This will be an unpopular post. But hey, bring it on we need to take some steam out.

We need to assess his performances and not that he is Ronaldo. If Ronaldo's performance was from say Martial he would be slated big time.

Huh?
I don't think Messi scored the last game he played, so he's just like Martial too.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Yeah, he didn't play well. He's been very good thus far. There's no need to go OTT after 1 poor game.

We have far bigger issues though.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This will be an unpopular post. But hey, bring it on we need to take some steam out.

We need to assess his performances and not that he is Ronaldo. If Ronaldo's performance was from say Martial he would be slated big time.

Yeah, he was pretty anonymous/crap. To his credit, he probably made more of an effort than a Martial stinker but if Cavani is fit enough to start the next game then he should do so. With Ronaldo on the bench. It won’t happen though.

 

[Sultan]

Huh?
I don't think Messi scored the last game he played, so he's just like Martial too.

Huh?

What's Messi got to do with anything? Ronaldo had a bad game, simples. You'll find more posts of mine on a random reserve player than Messi. Basically, I don't give a scooby about Messi despite him being a great player. This is because he does not play for Manchester United and I ever rarely see him play.

 

[Devil81]

I’m worried that Ole doesn’t have the stones to sub him off other than in completely exceptional circumstances. Taking off a midfielder to get on a striker was a weird/terrible decision that handed the initiative to Villa. And Ronaldo was a busted flush long before Cavani came on. I think he’s going to be the end of Ole as United manager.

This.

Me and my dad said the same thing when the sub was made, handed the game to Villa.

Bad decision.

 

[Josh 76]

Ronaldo won’t play well for UTD in majority of the games, but he will score goals. These goals will paper over the cracks.

Fans who think he is going to be effective for the team better think again.

What makes it even harder is, Ole won’t have the balls to drop him or take him off.

 

[ti vu]

By defence I am counting pressing which Ronaldo doesn't really do. Whether it's his age now or his style of play, it's a detriment.

Style of play.

The trade off with Cavani is that with all the hard work, he is not as prolific in front of goal. He had anonymous games with us too, last season. And as it shows today, hard work doesn't cover for pure strength, speed, and physique.

Ronaldo has the ability to overpower/dominate other in key moment. Talking about attacking (with the right service).

It's not a clear cut between getting better team balance with Cavani vs the lack of it with Ronaldo. The only clear cut is Ronaldo is still one of the best scorer around with X factor, while Cavani is no longer one considering his injury record for at least past 2 seasons.

 

[SilentWitness]

Style of play.

The trade off with Cavani is that with all the hard work, he is not as prolific in front of goal. He had anonymous games with us too, last season. And as it shows today, hard work doesn't cover for pure strength, speed, and physique what.

Ronaldo has the ability to overpower/dominate other in key moment. Talking about attacking (with the right service).

It's not a clear cut between getting better team balance with Cavani vs the lack of it with Ronaldo. The only clear cut is Ronaldo is still one of the best scorer around with X factor, while Cavani is no longer one considering his injury record for at least past 2 seasons.

That's true, I think what showed today is that you needed someone like Cavani in the 2nd half rather than Ronaldo, someone who could provide the workrate and challenge Villa in that department.

 

[NZT-One]

Adding to the posts above, I think every team needs to play to Ronaldo's strengths, obvisouly you oughta do this with every player in the team, and that's harder to execute than in theory. He creates a lot and usually makes it easy for his teammates by basically setting himself free in the box and adjacent areas and creating a very easy line of sight and an easy pass for teammates. Case in point, RM really squeezed Ronaldo to the max of his incredible positioning and brain, and the plays at several points in time were designed one or two seconds before they actually started. Everyone knew how to play together and to each other's strengths.

Two examples of this are the classical Ronaldo/RM goals of a back low pass into the area, and a low finish by Ronaldo:

Skip to 4:15, RM vs Atletico CL semifinal
CL final against Juventus

And that's where RM excelled. Everyone just knew it, when Ronaldo handed you the ball like in the two videos above, teammates knew he'd find space behind the defensive line and just wait for the right moment. The focal point was Ronaldo in key several seconds of the game, and Ronaldo would make it easy for teammates as long as they didn't complicate and whenever he created an easy pass for them, they no frills just passed to him for a shooting position. In RM it was just smooth, very smooth team play, and Benzema played a part on it and worked together very nicely with Ronnie.

The important thing here, for me, is that Ronaldo should be the focal point, specially when he ditches defenders so easily, and makes it so easy for teammates to look good. But this requires some time, a collective thought to take advantage of him, and knowing each other *very well*, which is very hard with just one month of playing.

But the coach and teammates need to realize that this focal point on Ronaldo needs to be on these micro decisions on several key moments throughout the game. He cannot be, and doesn't need to be, a focal point of the strategy itself. If you play purely for him, defenders will cut it off easily, and you cannot spend a game bombing crosses to the areas. Ronaldo can link very well in small, advanced spaces (quick example 1, quick example 2), and with him up front you can play whatever kind of football you like. You cannot construct plays purely for him, or bomb crosses in. You need to play football for everyone, and 5 or 6 times a game, Ronaldo will create game for others by being world class and finding himself alone in a shooting position, and that's where I believe the decision making needs to be simplified and have him get the ball instead of anyone else.

I'm a firm believer if there's any guy on the pitch today in world football in a shooting position, no one will do it better than this fella. But even then, I've learned throughout the years that a team that purely plays for him, is actually undoing his brilliance because as a target man he'll have 3 defenders in on him. Just play normal football like a team, and let Ronaldo drift and stay out of the game and out of the plays. The more in the shadows he is, the easier it is for him to ditch a defender. If every cross goes to him, and if your strategy revolves around going wide and putting 30 crosses in, it's not going to work.

Sorry for the long post guys.

Good post, interesting read and plausible arguments.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Huh?

What's Messi got to do with anything? Ronaldo had a bad game, simples. You'll find more posts of mine on a random reserve player than Messi. Basically, I don't give a scooby about Messi despite him being a great player. This is because he does not play for Manchester United and I ever rarely see him play.

Well said, Sults.

Although I think Messi and Ronaldo will have a lot in common this season. In that they will both cause more problems than they solve at their new clubs. Managing the inevitable decline - over the course of this season - of players with the aura, reputation and personality of these two was always going to be an absolute nightmare. And Ole and Poch are the pair of suckers that walked headlong into an almost impossible task.

 

[redshaw]

The Ronaldo I saw at the match was battling out there, winning headers and getting possession back. The team simply struggled to make use of it, Villa setup well and blocked us off. We opted to shoot too much when a cut back or pass inside would've opened them up, 28 shots but not much for Villa to worry about.

 

[steffyr2]

Huh?

What's Messi got to do with anything? Ronaldo had a bad game, simples. You'll find more posts of mine on a random reserve player than Messi. Basically, I don't give a scooby about Messi despite him being a great player. This is because he does not play for Manchester United and I ever rarely see him play.

It was hyperbole. Doesn't score in 1 game = plays like Martial. Messi didn't score in his last game.
Actually, there are lots of forwards who haven't scored in their last game. They're all like Martial.
Unless you meant something else?

 

[RooneyLegend]

He was signed for the right wing, so why don't we play him there? Couldn't care less where he played in Dortmund; different league, different team, different tactics, different opposition. It was obvious that he was bought for the right-wing since we are already heavily stacked on the left wing. He was signed for the right wing, with Greenwood being mentored under Cavani as a CF. That was clearly Ole's plan, however, the Ronaldo signing has complicated matters and thrown the plan out of the window.

Ronaldo is a 36 (soon 37) year old passenger waiting for tap ins. Passengers do not survive in a Guardiola/Klopp PL where hard work and pressing is demanded off everyone. Yes he has scored a few goals but the collective performance of the team is diabolical. There is only so many times the team can perform badly and get away with it with a Ronaldo tap in. We are starting to get found out. Goal scoring wasn't an issue last season, it was defending. Despite signing Varane, we still look exposed because a) we ignored signing a proper holding midfielder and went for a vanity signing instead and b) the team doesn't press up front because of Ronaldo.

My last remaining post available for me to post today so hope that clears things up.

No matter how many hard workers we sign our team wont be pressing like those sides. The only way to achieve that is to change the coach.

 

[jesperjaap]

Ronaldo would be a fantastic addition to our squad if used as a squad player. It’s the idea that a 36 year old can be a nailed on starter (and finisher) in our best XI that will probably see Ole sacked before the season’s out.

Disagree, people were saying the same about Cavani when we signed him. Not only are these two obviously world class strikers, they are world class proffesionals who do everything to take care of there bodies which is a big reason they are still both world class at there age.

WIth our formation and having bothm they get plenty of opportunities for rest or to replaced ij injured as we do have other options. The only downside for me personally with Ronaldo coming is it means we have to wait longer for Greenwood to convert to a striker now. peopl ecomplaining he was greedy at times today,w ell he is young and he is essentially a striker so its no bad thing for me, its a learnign experience for him.

Our problems have nothing to do with Ronaldo or Cavani as stikers. The only problem I see age wise with them is they are now not strikers to make something out of nothing like both were in there heyday especially Ronaldo. We are reliant on chances created for them and thats where our problems exist. People are lauding our attacking options but Pogba, Rashford, Lingard, Mata are all woefully inconsistant and dare I say it for all the game changing moments we rely on Fernandes to provide and the work he outs in, he shouldnt be immune from criticism becuase of that, let be honest 60% of what he does with the ball is actually poor....add that to the inconsitencies around him and we arent as an attacking threat at the moment on the same level as the other sides in the top four....let alone our shockingly average at best central midfield options.....that is where our main problems lie and its a joke to me we didnt sign a central midfielder when we actually needed two in the summer. Put a couple of quality midfielders that can actually shield the defence and move the ball between them and we would be challenging I feel, instead we are stuck with McFred, Pogba and the occasional average but lets give him a chance cause the rest are poor performances from VDB. Id argue Matic has actually been our best central midfielder so far this season which says it all....I want Hannibal to break through as no guarantee he makes a differnce but at least he brings something different and I want to see how he develops as we arent winning anythig nthis season anyway with those midfield options

 

[ti vu]

Ronaldo won’t play well for UTD in majority of the games, but he will score goals. These goals will paper over the cracks.

Fans who think he is going to be effective for the team better think again.

What makes it even harder is, Ole won’t have the balls to drop him or take him off.

For whom? For Ole or Ronaldo?

If you implied Ronaldo is done is a hinderance for the team more than his contribution, then you can't be more wrong.

Being relentless with that kind of explosiveness, rarely we find these kind of players, and rare having those that can maintain those qualities at the top of the game for so long. People get too used to that Ronaldo, and that Ronaldo is no more, people go to another extremity regarding how he is as a player today. He has become more as a pure forward in that he's not involved as much in other phase of play. That however is not playing bad for majority of the game. Many other current top forwards are having similar quiet games. Man City would have issue to get him in the team if Ronaldo chose to destroy his legacy with us.

Our issue is more about our coaching. This type of team performance is a common. The chemistry between players ain't there. Players play as if they're playing their first game together. One player can play brilliantly one game, then the next he looks like he had just ran a marathon to arrive at the stadium.