[bakalhau]

One thing that I've been wondering for a while is why Ole insisting to play Ronaldo as a #9. It's obviously a bad decision. Zidane tried that for a few matches at Madrid and had to go straight back to Benzama as a #9 and Ronaldo as LW. Same with the decision to play him 90' every matches even after his international games given his age. Another obvious bad decision especially considering we have Cavani, Martial, Greenwood, Sancho all need to play too.

Bingo. I am also in the camp of, even before he played a match, and I posted it here, that it would be a mistake playing him as number 9. I also usually say exactly what you just said about Zidane.

But it's not his fault he gets put there! Putting Ronnie as a number 9 has two downsides, he's less involved in the game, easier to control, and he operates better in spaces, and works very well with another striker upfront occupying, and being centrally up front does not play to his advantages. So it's not good to get the most out of him.

And it's not good for the team either overall. He drifts left even as a central striker, which is so obvious, because he said publicly he'd rather not play there, even!, so if someone puts him there, he feels caged, and he likes space, so he drifts left or right. As Bebestation said, and very well, all his runs for through balls come from him being wider than in the central position. His best chance yesterday, the 2nd goal in his debut, are all through balls where he has space and his smartness allows him to get away easily from a defender on pace and timing.

Think it's about the 10th time I've said it, it's a complete waste having him as central striker.

 

[Bebestation]

I wonder what people like you say if we get a professional manager and it all suddenly looks so much better. I bet you hide in a corner and don’t say anything, it’s usually the drill. The team is not worse because Ronaldo is there, does the Maguire blunder happen because of Ronaldo? Wake up and analyze properly, you know nothing.

And again, the mistakes of players are ultimately their fault - no one can doubt that..

But the main question is why are Watford able to control the game vs Manchester United? Why is Leicester, Everton second half, Liverpool, Atalanta and City able to play football vs us with their eyes closed? Easily controlling the match.

Very simply question- why did our fans complain about our creative ability against low block teams last year as our main problem?

Where has these low block teams gone? Name me a couple of teams that played low block vs us this season? Name me these matches where we controlled the match whilst the opposition was sitting back to try and control it/block our attavks through a low block.

Bloody Watford were playing like a Pep team in that first half, we had absolutely no control.

It's because we allow them to control the match through their defensive line having all the time in the world to pick their passes to more deadlier players.

 

[RedDribble]

Let alone his work rate part, people need to admit even his strongest point "goal scoring" is also now just average level.
His performance yesterday was shockingly bad, he had three great chances and to call yourself a Man Utd Striker you need to put at least one of them.

And it's not just yesterday, he has 4 goals in the PL until now. That is bang average for a striker.

I stand firm on my opinion that unless he lower his ego and accept starting from the bench, resigning him was a mistake, and no not some other manager will come in and rejuvenate him not even Zidane. At Real Madrid he had not just Ronaldo but a bunch of great players able to cover his plays. Plus, Ronaldo was much younger and able to grab 50~60 goals a season.

 

[Pickle85]

Let alone his work rate part, people need to admit even his strongest point "goal scoring" is also now just average level.
His performance yesterday was shockingly bad, he had three great chances and to call yourself a Man Utd Striker you need to put at least one of them.

And it's not just yesterday, he has 4 goals in the PL until now. That is bang average for a striker.

I stand firm on my opinion that unless he lower his ego and accept starting from the bench, resigning him was a mistake, and no not some other manager will come in and rejuvenate him not even Zidane. At Real Madrid he had not just Ronaldo but a bunch of great players able to cover his plays. Plus, Ronaldo was much younger and able to grab 50~60 goals a season.

Yeah, he's a notch above Pukki and a notch below Bentekke. This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in some time. Kudos

 

[RedDribble]

Yeah, he's a notch above Pukki and a notch below Bentekke. This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in some time. Kudos

Instead of just mocking, why don't you give an argument why he is still a world class goal scorer?
I'll start why he is not, he has 4 goals in the PL right now and specially against Liverpool, City he made one chance that actually threaten them.
He had 3 chances yesterday, one of them being a clear 1v1 and missed all of them.

I'll give you the second Atlanta goal, Spurs goal, and the Villareal goal was class, but that's not enough to build a team around.
Salah put in much more difficult goals this season let alone more goals in number and still Liverpool does not build a team around him.

And I have not even started about his other lack of contribution in the game play.

 

[Ixion]

We have a win rate of under 50% since last boxing day, we've only won 2+ in a row once in 2021, and only kept 2 clean sheets in the past 24 games. Lots of that goes back beyond Ronaldo being here, there were plenty of problems before he arrived.

 

[Pickle85]

Instead of just mocking, why don't you give an argument why he is still a world class goal scorer?
I'll start why he is not, he has 4 goals in the PL right now and specially against Liverpool, City he made one chance that actually threaten them.
He had 3 chances yesterday, one of them being a clear 1v1 and missed all of them.

I'll give you the second Atlanta goal, Spurs goal, and the Villareal goal was class, but that's not enough to build a team around.
Salah put in much more difficult goals this season let alone more goals in number and still Liverpool does not build a team around him.

And I have not even started about his other lack of contribution in the game play.

He's scored 9 in 13 (including champions League, which you ignored for some reason) in a dysfunctional side. He's scored six in his last seven international games. He's obviously not the player he was but to say he's not an elite goal scorer still (ignoring other weaknesses in his game, of which there are certainly some) makes me think you just don't watch him often.

 

[RedDribble]

We have a win rate of under 50% since last boxing day, we've only won 2+ in a row once in 2021, and only kept 2 clean sheets in the past 24 games. Lots of that goes back beyond Ronaldo being here, there were plenty of problems before he arrived.

Just keep it clear I'm not talking about defense part right now. I'm talking about the offensive side.

He's scored 9 in 13 (including champions League, which you ignored for some reason) in a dysfunctional side. He's scored six in his last seven international games. He's obviously not the player he was but to say he's not an elite goal scorer still (ignoring other weaknesses in his game, of which there are certainly some) makes me think you just don't watch him often.

Wow... so much for a Manchester United main striker. 5 of them being Young boys, Villareal (12th in the league), and Atlanta (actually a good team).
Still 4 goals in the PL when playing most of them full time and being the main target man. Is that really enough for Manchester United to make him main man?
Specially when his contribution in other aspect of the game is almost zero?

There is already plenty of post here about his defensive (lack of) contribution. Let's talk about his ball progression, what does he add in terms of ball progression?
I maybe just dozy watching PL in the morning (US time) but I barely remember him dribble past some players. His passing vision isn't top notch either, Rooney lost his dribbling in his later years but he still had amazing vision in terms of passing.

About international, so eventually the team failed to progress to the world cup with a great opportunity (I know they still have a chance). So maybe he is not in the level to make teams step up to the next level? No? Don't tell me Portugal is a dysfunctional side.

World class players has a ability to make good sides into a world beater. Ronaldo had the magic until his Real Madrid years, Michael Jordan always had the magic during his career, Messi had it in his prime years (he kind of lost it too).

 

[Dan_F]

Instead of just mocking, why don't you give an argument why he is still a world class goal scorer?
I'll start why he is not, he has 4 goals in the PL right now and specially against Liverpool, City he made one chance that actually threaten them.
He had 3 chances yesterday, one of them being a clear 1v1 and missed all of them.

I'll give you the second Atlanta goal, Spurs goal, and the Villareal goal was class, but that's not enough to build a team around.
Salah put in much more difficult goals this season let alone more goals in number and still Liverpool does not build a team around him.

And I have not even started about his other lack of contribution in the game play.

Are you sure about that? Their team is set up very specifically to have two high wide players (no number 10 and a deeper striker).

 

[Pickle85]

Just keep it clear I'm not talking about defense part right now. I'm talking about the offensive side.



Wow... so much for a Manchester United main striker. 5 of them being Young boys, Villareal (12th in the league), and Atlanta (actually a good team).
Still 4 goals in the PL when playing most of them full time and being the main target man. Is that really enough for Manchester United to make him main man?
Specially when his contribution in other aspect of the game is almost zero?

There is already plenty of post here about his defensive (lack of) contribution. Let's talk about his ball progression, what does he add in terms of ball progression?
I maybe just dozy watching PL in the morning (US time) but I barely remember him dribble past some players. His passing vision isn't top notch either, Rooney lost his dribbling in his later years but he still had amazing vision in terms of passing.

About international, so eventually the team failed to progress to the world cup with a great opportunity (I know they still have a chance). So maybe he is not in the level to make teams step up to the next level? No? Don't tell me Portugal is a dysfunctional side.

World class players has a ability to make good sides into a world beater. Ronaldo had the magic until his Real Madrid years, Michael Jordan always had the magic during his career, Messi had it in his prime years (he kind of lost it too).

This is all completely missing the point. You said he was no longer an elite goalscorer. His numbers in a dysfunctional side beg to differ. You then strawmanned and moved the goalposts to start talking about passing vision and dribbling. Again, I don't disagree that he's not the player he was and that he has weaknesses in his game. He is, though, still an elite goalscorer.

 

[Gottabekiddingme]

Some people here are delusional. Ronaldo arrived to a team that hasn't won - and wasn't close to winning - anything significant in the last 8 years while he was winning 3 CLs in a row (Scoring at least 15 goals in each of those campaigns). I'm not saying he shouldn't get some of the blame but treating him like he's some Falcao is pushing it. He has 9 goals and 2 assists in 12 and a half games.

 

[Bebestation]

What I find funny is how people think Zidane is craving to manage a 37 year old Ronaldo.

Literally the manager who knows more than any fan on here that Ronaldo never could play as a striker by himself.

Is now going to come when Ronaldo is 37 and do exactly that? Damn.

Or he comes here and then builds a team that gets the best out of Ronaldo and then suddenly Sancho on the bench isn't looking like Ole's plan either. Rashford and Greenwood on the bench.

I have this slight feeling (pure guess) that he might actually use Martial as a striker partner for Ronaldo if he had any interest in managing him to the best of his ability - which won't be the case anyway.

 

[Pickle85]

What I find funny is how people think Zidane is craving to manage a 37 year old Ronaldo.

Literally the manager who knows more than any fan on here that Ronaldo never could play as a striker by himself.

Is now going to come when Ronaldo is 37 and do exactly that? Damn.

Or he comes here and then builds a team that gets the best out of Ronaldo and then suddenly Sancho on the bench isn't looking like Ole's plan either. Rashford and Greenwood on the bench.

I have this slight feeling (pure guess) that he might actually use Martial as a striker partner for Ronaldo if he had any interest in managing him to the best of his ability - which won't be the case anyway.

What, aside from Martial being French, would make you think that Zidane would fancy him above our other options?

 

[Bebestation]

Are you sure about that? Their team is set up very specifically to have two high wide players (no number 10 and a deeper striker).

And this is exactly why Ronaldo is horrible for us.

Inverted forwards like Salah and Mane get a deeper striker who can pass and press.

Our inverted forwards like Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood and Martial get a striker who was never a striker in his prime and has no ability for link up play or passing.

Glad you can see the difference between getting the best out of the players at Liverpool vs just adding a random player in to the middle of inverted forwards at United.

 

[Bebestation]

What, aside from Martial being French, would make you think that Zidane would fancy him above our other options?

Benzema's passing and hold up play.

It will be Cavani and Ronaldo, if not I have a feeling he will use Martial as a partner for Ronaldo.

Zidane knows Ronaldo can't play upfront by himself. Greenwood is more the finisher than the player who is holding the ball up and able to make a pass. Rashford isn't a good striker.
God knows what happens to Sancho.

It leaves Cavani and Martial the most likely to partner Ronaldo in a striker partnership - unless Zidane forces him to go back to playing LW; which apparently Ronaldo chose his positions when joining here, possibly to start games as a striker. A 37 year old LW.

A tactical problem, something Zidane knows the answer to already but wonder if he can be arsed to manage that again.

I don't see it.

 

[Pickle85]

Benzema's passing and hold up play.

It will be Cavani and Ronaldo, if not I have a feeling he will use Martial as a partner for Ronaldo.

Zidane knows Ronaldo can't play upfront by himself. Greenwood is more the finisher than the player who is holding the ball up and able to make a pass. Rashford isn't a good striker.
God knows what happens to Sancho.

It leaves Cavani and Martial the most likely to partner Ronaldo in a striker partnership - unless Zidane forces him to go back to playing LW; which apparently Ronaldo chose his positions when joining here, possibly to start games as a striker. A 37 year old LW.

A tactical problem, something Zidane knows the answer to already but wonder if he can be arsed to manage that again.

I don't see it.

Fair play. I just can't see Zidane getting on board with someone as lackadaisical and plain disinterested as Martial. Unless he can convince him to work for him, I guess. Also, Tony has gone backwards in the last few years imo. He's not great with his back to goal imo and his distribution is poor. He's a millionth of the player Benz is (I know you're not comparing them).

 

[RedDribble]

This is all completely missing the point. You said he was no longer an elite goalscorer. His numbers in a dysfunctional side beg to differ. You then strawmanned and moved the goalposts to start talking about passing vision and dribbling. Again, I don't disagree that he's not the player he was and that he has weaknesses in his game. He is, though, still an elite goalscorer.

Which I'm saying he is no longer an elite goalscorer. 4 in the PL with 9 games playing 8 of them full time (am I right?) is not an elite goalscorer.
It's not like he didn't even have a chance, like I said he lost 3 chances yesterday which and elite goalscorer would as least put one of them. Lewandowski would put all three of them to be honest, prime Ronaldo too.


He is in the same level as Jamie Vardy (actually I think vardy is better at the moment) and even that team doesn't build a team around him

This is my last post I can do today, if you have another argument I'll reply later.

 

[shamans]

Let alone his work rate part, people need to admit even his strongest point "goal scoring" is also now just average level.
His performance yesterday was shockingly bad, he had three great chances and to call yourself a Man Utd Striker you need to put at least one of them.

And it's not just yesterday, he has 4 goals in the PL until now. That is bang average for a striker.

I stand firm on my opinion that unless he lower his ego and accept starting from the bench, resigning him was a mistake, and no not some other manager will come in and rejuvenate him not even Zidane. At Real Madrid he had not just Ronaldo but a bunch of great players able to cover his plays. Plus, Ronaldo was much younger and able to grab 50~60 goals a season.

Completely ignore the amount of total possession we've had, or goal scoring chances. Ridiculous.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I wonder what people like you say if we get a professional manager and it all suddenly looks so much better. I bet you hide in a corner and don’t say anything, it’s usually the drill. The team is not worse because Ronaldo is there, does the Maguire blunder happen because of Ronaldo? Wake up and analyze properly, you know nothing.

Like the professional managers of Sarri and Allegri that also got sacked after he arrived at Juventus?

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...chester-united-manager?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

There is a lot of truth in this, for example.

 

[Pickle85]

Which I'm saying he is no longer an elite goalscorer. 4 in the PL with 9 games playing 8 of them full time (am I right?) is not an elite goalscorer.
It's not like he didn't even have a chance, like I said he lost 3 chances yesterday which and elite goalscorer would as least put one of them. Lewandowski would put all three of them to be honest, prime Ronaldo too.


He is in the same level as Jamie Vardy (actually I think vardy is better at the moment) and even that team doesn't build a team around him

This is my last post I can do today, if you have another argument I'll reply later.

You keep trotting out this four in nine stat, whilst completely ignoring both the champions League, his national team, and the fact that he's playing in an entirely dysfunctional team. You don't like him as a player, that's fine, but I think you'd be pretty hard pushed to find many that would prefer Vardy to him.

 

[bakalhau]

You keep trotting out this four in nine stat, whilst completely ignoring both the champions League, his national team, and the fact that he's playing in an entirely dysfunctional team. You don't like him as a player, that's fine, but I think you'd be pretty hard pushed to find many that would prefer Vardy to him.

I find funny what some people talk about here (I do respect their views). Gasperini and Ranieri were both asked about Ronaldo being a problem and both answered in a way they find it ridiculous anyone would think he actually is, Ranieri even going all out saying he'd take him in a heartbeat. Meanwhile we're discussing here whether he's an elite goalscorer or not........

Some people don't actually know what they've got until it's gone. (ask RM, ask Juventus who is currently 7th in the league).

 

[VanDeBank]

Bingo. I am also in the camp of, even before he played a match, and I posted it here, that it would be a mistake playing him as number 9. I also usually say exactly what you just said about Zidane.

But it's not his fault he gets put there! Putting Ronnie as a number 9 has two downsides, he's less involved in the game, easier to control, and he operates better in spaces, and works very well with another striker upfront occupying, and being centrally up front does not play to his advantages. So it's not good to get the most out of him.

And it's not good for the team either overall. He drifts left even as a central striker, which is so obvious, because he said publicly he'd rather not play there, even!, so if someone puts him there, he feels caged, and he likes space, so he drifts left or right. As Bebestation said, and very well, all his runs for through balls come from him being wider than in the central position. His best chance yesterday, the 2nd goal in his debut, are all through balls where he has space and his smartness allows him to get away easily from a defender on pace and timing.

Think it's about the 10th time I've said it, it's a complete waste having him as central striker.

I have the complete opposite view of Ronnie. I think he's deadly and super effective up top centrally as close to the goal as possible. I feel like he just drifts away from that position out of boredom and looks very average. I only recall one strong moment from him like that this season which was that dribble into assist to Cavani. Meanwhile he's had multiple Ruud-esque tap ins. He's such a Godly header, he makes Fellaini look like a midget. I think it's a waste not to play him CF.

He needs to stay there. He has this uncanny ability to score out of nowhere and turn half chances in full blown chances like that volley vs City.

 

[bakalhau]

I have the complete opposite view of Ronnie. I think he's deadly and super effective up top centrally as close to the goal as possible. I feel like he just drifts away from that position out of boredom and looks very average. I only recall one strong moment from him like that this season which was that dribble into assist to Cavani. Meanwhile he's had multiple Ruud-esque tap ins. He's such a Godly header, he makes Fellaini look like a midget. I think it's a waste not to play him CF.

He needs to stay there. He has this uncanny ability to score out of nowhere and turn half chances in full blown chances like that volley vs City.

Oh, I agree, he is, but he can not be there, and in a flash be there (remember that goal against Roma?). He doesn't need to be static in the box, he can roam, he always knows when a ball comes in and by the time the ball is there he can be there, too. I think if he's more static, he's easier to control by the 2 central defenders. I'm not saying he couldn't be good as a 9, in fact, in offensive terms, I think he's showing just that right now, but he could be doing even more if he was central but with another striker partner with him (so, 4-4-2).

And, if you watch him closely (have no idea how many games you watched throughout the career, maybe you watched a lot), he plays a lot in the shadows. Always in offside, always trying to drop back a bit so defenders cannot mark him since they can't ruin the shape of the team, so he can then run through them. He usually is always watching for bad positioning from defenders. The ball VdB put to him yesterday, Ronaldo's vision is great, clearly spots a gap, runs through it, and when you take notice of it, he's already alone. He can do more of that if he's not a static player waiting for a ball in the area.

So I do agree with you he's insane on those aspects, but overall, I'd stick still to that he could do even better in a different position. Truth is, offensively speaking, as long as he's in a decent attacking team, he'll make it happen no matter where he is on the field. But, your analysis in my opinion is very fair. Agree with some points, and he can score a lot as a 9, I just think he could score even more in another position.

 

[Pickle85]

I find funny what some people talk about here (I do respect their views). Gasperini and Ranieri were both asked about Ronaldo being a problem and both answered in a way they find it ridiculous anyone would think he actually is, Ranieri even going all out saying he'd take him in a heartbeat. Meanwhile we're discussing here whether he's an elite goalscorer or not........

Some people don't actually know what they've got until it's gone. (ask RM, ask Juventus who is currently 7th in the league).

Agreed entirely.

 

[ExoduS]

Bringing him on was a massive, massive mistake. Brought individual brilliancy with scoring some wonderful goals but because of him Fernandes is not a player he was and Greenwood/Sancho/Rashford/Cavani are confused about their roles. Massive mistake. Props to Pep for recognizing that he would shatter existing system and not contribute.

 

[shamans]

Bringing him on was a massive, massive mistake. Brought individual brilliancy with scoring some wonderful goals but because of him Fernandes is not a player he was and Greenwood/Sancho/Rashford/Cavani are confused about their roles. Massive mistake. Props to Pep for recognizing that he would shatter existing system and not contribute.

quoting this one for a good laugh when he scores next time

 

[steffyr2]

quoting this one for a good laugh when he scores next time

Hopefully the new manager to get Bruno to play whatever position he's supposed to be playing.
Greenwood has been awful I agree; it does seem like he doesn't understand much about playing on the wing. When he played centrally, he didn't seem to understand that position either. Can't help but think that the constant changing of mgmt at Utd has been bad for him.
Rashford has been injured, which wasn't Ronaldo's fault iirc.
Cavani seems to be constantly coming back from South America, also not Ronaldo's fault.

 

[ExoduS]

quoting this one for a good laugh when he scores next time

He is amazing scorer. He will keep scoring but the balance of the team has been ruined. Before his first game we all thought that he will make everyone better but everyone got worse! Yeah Ole failed to integrate him properly but there is more to it.

 

[shamans]

He is amazing scorer. He will keep scoring but the balance of the team has been ruined. Before his first game we all thought that he will make everyone better but everyone got worse! Yeah Ole failed to integrate him properly but there is more to it.

Right. We were a cohesive unit pre Ronaldo and never looked mismanaged.

 

[ExoduS]

Right. We were a cohesive unit pre Ronaldo and never looked mismanaged.

I don't think we were firing on all cylinders before Rolando's arrival, however Ronaldo was supposed to make us better, instead we got worse and continued to get even more worse by each game we played except that game against Spurs cause they were in a free fall just like us.

The effect of Ronaldo was that Fernandes, Cavani, Greenwood got far worse than they were last season. I mean, I would have taken Ronaldo, off course I would, however so far he has some blame for what is happening.

Unfortunately with Carrick in charge we can't evaluate if Ole was the problem or not. If things get better, then it will be that sobering "effect" when a manager gets sacked, but if we get worse, we will say that Carrick and rest of the coaches are the part of the problem so it is unreasonable to expect anything.

My opinion is that Ronaldo brought more unbalance to already unbalanced team and instead of bringing him we should have focused on a young CMF / DMF. We thought that Ronaldo would help us turn those 0:0 results into wins, but we ended up conceding every damn game.

 

[JebelSherif]

Why is he playing 90 minutes for international and club football at 36?

Well, I don't know about Portugal, but for Utd. it's 'cos Sir Alex Ferguson decreed it (after the Everton game, if I recall).

He didn't state it specifically, but obliquely.

I don't believe the conspiracy theory that it is written into his contract though.

 

[shamans]

I don't think we were firing on all cylinders before Rolando's arrival, however Ronaldo was supposed to make us better, instead we got worse and continued to get even more worse by each game we played except that game against Spurs cause they were in a free fall just like us.

The effect of Ronaldo was that Fernandes, Cavani, Greenwood got far worse than they were last season. I mean, I would have taken Ronaldo, off course I would, however so far he has some blame for what is happening.

Unfortunately with Carrick in charge we can't evaluate if Ole was the problem or not. If things get better, then it will be that sobering "effect" when a manager gets sacked, but if we get worse, we will say that Carrick and rest of the coaches are the part of the problem so it is unreasonable to expect anything.

My opinion is that Ronaldo brought more unbalance to already unbalanced team and instead of bringing him we should have focused on a young CMF / DMF. We thought that Ronaldo would help us turn those 0:0 results into wins, but we ended up conceding every damn game.

Ronaldo has improved us. You're just ignoring the complete debacle in the middle of the part and the good fortune we had last season. First of all, we were out of the champions league last season and would have been this year if Ronaldo wasn't playing.

Secondly, forget Ronaldo and replace him with whoever you think is the worlds best number 9. Analyze our performances and tell me how exactly the worlds best number 9 would avoid some of the absolutely comical goals we have conceded.

It's easy to just blame it all on Ronaldo as he must be past it and all but as much folks want say it, Ronaldo not pressing from the front does not lead to AWB losing his marker and not knowing how to control the ball. It does not lead to Greenwood running into dead ends. It does not lead to Bruno Fernandes taking 40 yard punts hoping it goes in and it doesn't lead to like for Fred and McTominay leaving acres of space in behind.

This Saturday Ronaldo was actually average, especially his finishing. However, when him Van Der Beek and Sancho linked up, you could instantaneously see what quality players can do.

Speaking of Sancho, that's another player who has been lukewarm. Don't forget his price tag and how highly he has been rated. Are you going to blame Sancho as well now? Or maybe if quality players like Sancho, Ronaldo etc are suffering the rot is somewhere else.

 

[RedSky]

I do think bringing Ronaldo brought its own issues, changing our plans to accommodate him for example, despite playing the entire pre season without him in mind. It's a big shift in strategy, personal and influence in the dressing room.

That being said, our teams individual errors is nothing to do with Ronaldo, the issues come all across the pitch, from our passing, our tackling, our pressing and unforced errors everywhere. We're a soft touch right now, we get bullied way too easily and teams know that if they win the ball off us (this happens a lot) they can run through the middle of our pitch unchallenged. We have no match control, that's been evident for a long, long time.

 

[Oly Francis]

Ronaldo has improved us. You're just ignoring the complete debacle in the middle of the part and the good fortune we had last season. First of all, we were out of the champions league last season and would have been this year if Ronaldo wasn't playing.

Secondly, forget Ronaldo and replace him with whoever you think is the worlds best number 9. Analyze our performances and tell me how exactly the worlds best number 9 would avoid some of the absolutely comical goals we have conceded.

That's a VERY narrow way to analyse things. It's not only about replacing X by Y and see who scores goals, it's also about changing the way the team plays to accomodate Ronaldo, it's about some players not getting more playtime, it's about trying to rebalance a team that was already pretty unbalanced because Ronaldo is Ronaldo and you need to give him the ball in the right area so he does what he does best.

 

[shamans]

That's a VERY narrow way to analyse things. It's not only about replacing X by Y and see who scores goals, it's also about changing the way the team plays to accomodate Ronaldo, it's about some players not getting more playtime, it's about trying to rebalance a team that was already pretty unbalanced because Ronaldo is Ronaldo and you need to give him the ball in the right area so he does what he does best.

What you're saying is poor tactics and organization, not Ronaldo. Or are you saying this situation is unique to Ronaldo? That is why I said -- replace Ronaldo with whoever you think is the worlds best #9 and tell me how we would have been in a different position?

 

[Oly Francis]

What you're saying is poor tactics and organization, not Ronaldo. Or are you saying this situation is unique to Ronaldo? That is why I said -- replace Ronaldo with whoever you think is the worlds best #9 and tell me how we would have been in a different position?

It's both, because the team had to be reshaped to accomodate Ronaldo. It's not because of Ronaldo as a player, it's because of who Ronaldo is and you can't make him "just" a cog in the team. It would have been a smart move in 2012, it's not anymore. Players like Bruno will constantly look for him no matter where he is on the pitch and Ronaldo will constantly ask for the ball but that doesn't mean he should get the pass. He'll bail the team out on occasions but most of the time it cripples the (weak) team cohesion United tried to have. 37yo Ronaldo needs to be treated like a very good player but not like a player that can make magic happen outside of the box. He can't carry a team anymore, he just needs good chances and he'll score, he's not capable of anything else now (he's still a great player but far less versatile). Also, him being a striker that cannot play in a striker's position is another problem, he reduces the width of the attack.

 

[captaincantona]

Right. We were a cohesive unit pre Ronaldo and never looked mismanaged.

No but we were not in any way as fragile. We were limited but somewhat balanced and never got torn apart...now...we are completely open...Let’s see...quote me in few years...Ronaldo fuked up Brunos positioning which exposed the limitations in our two defensive midfielders.

 

[BlueHaze]

This entire thread has gone from performances discussion to solely arguing about wether he was a mistake or not. Give it a rest. He will be done by next season anyway. How do you find the energy for these constant debates. Just try and enjoy the time we have left with him.

 

[Oly Francis]

This entire thread has gone from performances discussion to solely arguing about wether he was a mistake or not. Give it a rest. He will be done by next season anyway. How do you find the energy for these constant debates. Just try and enjoy the time we have left with him.

There's nothing to enjoy when your team gets ridiculed week in and week out. May it be Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Mbappé, you name the player, nobody can enjoy a few flicks when you're down 5-0 against Liverpool at home.

 

[BlueHaze]

There's nothing to enjoy when your team gets ridiculed week in and week out. May it be Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Mbappé, you name the player, nobody can enjoy a few flicks when you're down 5-0 against Liverpool at home.

The season is not over yet and there's plenty more time for epic Ronaldo moments. I do agree with what you mean but I'd rather enjoy the last days of his career here than bitch and moan.