Cristiano Ronaldo - 968/1000

[Fobal]

Who said that Ronaldo is not one of the greatest goalscorers ever? Nobody says that.

Did you read other poster's comments where he says Ronaldo is the greatest and most lethal striker ever because he has "the most goals"? Many people would disagree with that as it misses a huge part of the context.

The WC is a whole different arena, the pinnacle of world football, and Ronaldo's biggest nightmare. You would think CL knockout and European NT qualifiers king will do some damage in the World Cup knockout games. Well, he has 0 g&a in 8 World Cup knockout games. ECs are not that different, 3 goals in 11 knockout games. There's nothing wrong with underperforming in certain tournaments until someone calls him "the greatest goalscorer ever" because that's a major flaw when you have goalscorers with near-perfect resumes.

For me, the greatest goalscorer would be the one that has dominated every single tournament be it at the club level or NT level with strong numbers and clutch performances, you cannot be called the greatest goalscorer ever disappearing in certain tournaments.

Gerd Muller, Pele, Messi for.ex have all shined in every single type of tournament both at the club level and NT level, and they have amazing stats & records to support their case as the greatest goalscorers ever. While Muller was a poacher, Pele and Messi are more like attacking-focused playmakers which makes their case even more impressive.

Actually the whole WCs, CLs, KOs, etc it's entering a very grey area with lots of ingredients regarding roles, periods, teams and even the most important TIMING that plays a huge part and includes the prior mentioend ingredients.
Sometimes stuff around and within a player align, others everything/or vital aspects are fvcked up.

The real "issue" here was the "most lethal" and that it's up to debate, when it simply relates mostly to goals/ratio.
And I do not say it's plain wrong, because I do think that longevity and consistency sometimes when it prolongues as long as is the case with CR it gains "extra" points in my view, it's not easy at all to do that.

Other aspects regarding our own views of difficulty, roles, context, that's more in camp of who we think is a better footballer or not, but the whole discussion was more focused on mere stats and the tags and definitions related to them like "most lethal finisher"

 

[Oranges038]

Man, come on, do not act like the kind of Youtube fan that actually somehow helps to create the scenario where trolls feed to diminish CR's extraordinary talent.

It's pretty clear what I've meant, that's why I've used more productive, more prolific, instead of "lethal finisher" that like I've said it's more related to the games/goals ratio.

In any case instead of using most lethal, I do think that the best asset regarding his goalscoring ability is his extraordinary consistency through years and longevity, outstanding and like you've said, the man that scored most goals than anyone.
Yet if you fall in the "most lethal" finisher, we just need to think of Puskas, another Real Madrid Legend, with very similar carreers in terms of titles, longevity, better goal ratio but less goals in total.

Ronaldo is the most lethal finisher I've ever seen. Absolutely ruthless in front of goal. His anticipation and positioning are his best attributes and once that ball falls his way there is usually only 1 outcome.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Funny that people can claim to dislike him as a person and the rewriting of his achievements and performances for Utd in here are laughable.

He was a great player and he doesn't get enough credit for how he had to transform his game after his knee problems. To go from that skinny winger to the physical freak and lethal striker he ended up being is one hell of a turn around.

Why is that funny? He's clearly an absolute tool. Even ignoring the antics when he wanted out of United (twice!) anyone who pals up with pricks like Piers Morgan, Conor McGregor and Jordan fecking Peterson is very obviously a weapons grade gobshite.

 

[Vitro]

Ronaldo is the most lethal finisher I've ever seen. Absolutely ruthless in front of goal. His anticipation and positioning are his best attributes and once that ball falls his way there is usually only 1 outcome.

His relatively low conversion rate doesn’t support that?

 

[Oranges038]

His relatively low conversion rate doesn’t support that?

What conversion rate did guys like Muller and Di Stefano have?

 

[devaneios]

It's pretty clear what I've meant, that's why I've used more productive, more prolific, instead of "lethal finisher" that like I've said it's more related to the games/goals ratio..

That's not a good definition of lethal finisher either.

Lethal finisher is a technical trait and, like with all of them(at least in football), statistics only give you an unsophisticated notion.

 

[Gehrman]

What conversion rate did guys like Muller and Di Stefano have?

Doubt there are stats on that.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

Lewandowski is more lethal than Ronaldo in my opinion. His range of clinical finishes is very impressive.

 

[Fobal]

That's not a good definition of lethal finisher either.

Lethal finisher is a technical trait and, like with all of them(at least in football), statistics only give you an unsophisticated notion.

I think I get what you mean, but primarly for me lethal does not have to necessary translate to have a better technical approach regarding scoring, it's simpler, "lethal": scoring more than missing.
In such regard those with a better ratio per minutes, or matches, are the ones that are/were more lethal.

Yet I do think that can also be associated to the technical ability, resources of a player to score, but mainly as a secondary notion and knowing we are entering a very grey area.
I've read that you've implied Batistuta was a better finisher than CR, not really for me, Bati has his couple of great assets (specially his strike and power that were beyond extraordinary) but CR it's far from lame in such regard and manages way more resources.
On the other hand if we think in terms of for instance Romario, your idea of what implies "lethal" holds more water, because in Romario's case, his finesse and technical proficiency was vast, while also that technical ability was never in the way of not scoring with the simpliest/ quickest or unorthodox way if that was what the situation demanded. So at the end of the day Romario was indeed "lethal" in "both senses".

 

[Fobal]

Ronaldo is the most lethal finisher I've ever seen. Absolutely ruthless in front of goal. His anticipation and positioning are his best attributes and once that ball falls his way there is usually only 1 outcome.

Nope, CR it's not precisly a player that do not have his big share of miss chances, Suarez, Messi, Mbappe, from recent years too.
YET like I've said before his tenacity/ability makes him a constant threat creating lots of chances (not few times by himself). This doesn't mean that in some games he converts every chance he had, but his best asset is precisly to be a constant and relentless menace, shooting a lot of times per game/season. Some people absurdly thinks that this it's not an asset, while it is, a great palyer has to be constantly creating chances, scoring or not.

 

[Swoobs]

Nope, CR it's not precisly a player that do not have his big share of miss chances, Suarez, Messi, Mbappe, from recent years too.
YET like I've said before his tenacity/ability makes him a constant threat creating lots of chances (not few times by himself). This doesn't mean that in some games he converts every chance he had, but his best asset is precisly to be a constant and relentless menace, shooting a lot of times per game/season. Some people absurdly thinks that this it's not an asset, while it is, a great palyer has to be constantly creating chances, scoring or not.

Imo, and i think that is what you meant, CR7 has one of the, if not the best off the ball movement. He gets into position which allows him to get a chance to score much more often than other players.
He however also misses a lot of chances, so he is not the “most lethal”, he is however the best volume “big chance shooter” based on his off the ball movement and shot power (from distance)

 

[bakalhau]

The Ronaldo threads are littered with discussons of one camp or another where there is very little middle-ground. For one thing, he has been underwhelming for his national team,

I agree with the bit that Ronaldo, and Messi, threads have little to no middle ground in the discussions. There's no nuance, context, attention to detail, etc. It's one of the things that irk me the most in any internet discussion about them.

I disagree with Ronaldo being underwhelming for the NT. Obviously my post history does scream I think he's been a fantastic football player, but I'm also Portuguese and I can be both rational and neutral about something like our national team and its players. I really do believe Ronnie to have been our best player, comfortably, at least 10 years in a row.

He was a very good creative offensive player that added a lot the team even before he turned into the goal-seeking freak. I disagree with the notion that group games should be dismissed in rating one's national tournament, obviously a final has more impact, but there's no margin for error in group stages. Every game is extremely important. Ronnie has put some incredible performances for us in big stages. His game against Spain with the hattrick included in the WC 2018 is nothign short of incredible, his 2016 game against Hungary in the group stage he basically dug us out of the elimination 3 times in the same game, with a (very good) assist and 2 goals, he showed up big time on that game, did well against Wales in the semi-final and scored the opening goal, *but there's more*, and these are forgotten with time, in Euro 2012 in what was basically a "knockout" last group game game against Netherlands, he probably played one of his best games ever, turned the game around with 2 goals but his football was just soo good that game. Provided 3-4 on a silver platter "assists" that is teammates blew. Demolished their defense the entire game. And in the quarters against the Czech Rep his was unplayable all game and scored the late winner.

And does anyone even remember his game against the Netherlands as well in the semi-final of the Euro 2004? Probably not, but he was playing well for us on important stages at 18 years old.

And in the middle of all these games I remember, there's an enormity of others ones where he was easily our best player.

Even after he turned into "only" scoring goals, he was basically solving a "lifelong" problem for us. We had our golden generation but the *striker*, oh man the striker... We always missed a world class striker since 1996. Everyone's discussion in here was around that. Great players every year, but the strikers mostly struggled to be just as good. Even with Ronaldo playing wide in 2010, the search for that striker was still alive. Then he went from like 20 goals to 125 in the space of 10 years and basically solved that issue for us. Even today at 38 he's bailing us out of games on a predictable basis.

That's how I view it, sincerely speaking

 

[devaneios]

The Ronaldo threads are littered with discussons of one camp or another where there is very little middle-ground. For one thing, he has been underwhelming for his national team, but perhaps it is worth noting that he still holds 128 national goals to his side in 205 matches. Muller has 68 goals in 62 matches, but then he didn't play 1/3 of the number of games that Ronaldo played, so a proper goal draught there and those stats might change significantly. There are many reasons why a player fails to deliver in certain aspects of the game. Messi's goal tally in the knock-out stages of the CL were not brilliant in his last season. I would be hard pressed to remove his legacy based on that metric alone.

To claim that he is THE greatest goalscorer of all time is difficult to justify, just as it is saying he's below the others. He's up there, and throughout his career he has shown an incredible talent for scoring pretty much all types of goals from 40 yard screamers og 60 yard dribbling raids to becoming more of a poacher. Claiming that he is one of the most complete finishers of all time may not be a stretch - it doesn't mean that he was the best, but his skillset is very complete.

Is his skillset that complete though?

How many goals dribbling or chipping the goalkeeper has he scored? How many different techniques does he use to hit the ball? I remember him using that powerful shot with his instep in any situation. How many volleys? I don't even think that his headers are that special; it's his jumps that are unbelievable and almost always guarantee he reaches the ball first than the defender.

I'm not even mentioning goals receiving the ball with his back to the goal, because he wasn't a CF for most of his career.

 

[Gehrman]

Is his skillset that complete though?

How many goals dribbling or chipping the goalkeeper has he scored? How many different techniques does he use to hit the ball? I remember him using that powerful shot with his instep in any situation. How many volleys? I don't even think that his headers are that special; it's his jumps that are unbelievable and almost always guarantee he reaches the ball first than the defender.

I'm not even mentioning goals receiving the ball with his back to the goal, because he wasn't a CF for most of his career.

It seems complete enough at the end of the day.

 

[Redplane]

Saudi league showing the MLS and Inter Miami are complete shite compared to them. Ronnie vindicated for playing in a league not quite as farmer level as Messi? Discuss!

 

[bakalhau]

They are getting stomped. I don't think it's a shocking statement the SL is better than the MLS, but looking through here and reddit, many people would argue so. I also think it's quite obvious Al Nassr has better players just looking at both squads.

It doesn't matter the slighest in any case, really. I also believe Inter also completely out of it physically, while Al Nassr played games until about one month ago, MLS has been on pause for longer than that.

In the end it's a fun friendly to watch regardless of result, and while my opinion is stated above, as I said, it's a comparison that doesn't matter much.

 

[Gehrman]

The best team in the Saudi league soundly beating the worst team in the MLS? Shocked.

 

[Joel Miller]

Saudi league showing the MLS and Inter Miami are complete shite compared to them. Ronnie vindicated for playing in a league not quite as farmer level as Messi? Discuss!

Inter Miami are literally one of the worst teams in the MLS though. If Atletico Madrid thump Luton Town does that prove La Liga is stronger than the Premier League?

Anyway look at the squad Ronaldo’s side have in comparison. Adding an over the hill 38 year old Suarez to that ain’t going to change that. Thought maybe the bigger talking point would be how that team (I can never remember their name) are able to win so easily without Ronaldo.

 

[Redplane]

Sorry guys I was just purposely fanning the flames a bit bc it got a bit boring in here.

I don't disagree this is a relatively poor measure of the quality between the two leagues and am aware Inter Miami is anything but MLS' shining beacon. Still funny to see them get pummeled regardless.

 

[bakalhau]

Inter Miami are literally one of the worst teams in the MLS though. If Atletico Madrid thump Luton Town does that prove La Liga is stronger than the Premier League?

Anyway look at the squad Ronaldo’s side have in comparison. Adding an over the hill 38 year old Suarez to that ain’t going to change that. Thought maybe the bigger talking point would be how that team (I can never remember their name) are able to win so easily without Ronaldo.

38 year old Suarez probably dumps on most of the MLS strikers still, I'd say? Inter has a fun team now for those wanting to watch a small core of Barcelona players having fun as their last dance. I'm quite curious to see the numbers Suarez pulls off at his age there.

Al Nassr plays well with or without Ronaldo. Honestly, and I expect this from Cristiano obviously, but the player commitment from all the players at Al Nassr is really cool to see.I never expected this kind of commitment from all the players that joined in the summer, but it's great to see.

 

[Joel Miller]

38 year old Suarez probably dumps on most of the MLS strikers still, I'd say? Inter has a fun team now for those wanting to watch a small core of Barcelona players having fun as their last dance. I'm quite curious to see the numbers Suarez pulls off at his age there.

Al Nassr plays well with or without Ronaldo. Honestly, and I expect this from Cristiano obviously, but the player commitment from all the players at Al Nassr is really cool to see.I never expected this kind of commitment from all the players that joined in the summer, but it's great to see.

I’m not sure man, we’ll find out but I think Suarez looks significantly slower each year. And for some reason Miami haven’t really sorted their calamitous defence which is always going to cost them. Even Messi will surely regress quite a bit each year now, so maybe he won’t be able to pull them through the same way he did when he’d just arrived there!

 

[bakalhau]

I’m not sure man, we’ll find out but I think Suarez looks significantly slower each year. And for some reason Miami haven’t really sorted their calamitous defence which is always going to cost them. Even Messi will surely regress quite a bit each year now, so maybe he won’t be able to pull them through the same way he did when he’d just arrived there!

Al Nassr's defense is similar, very leaky. Al Nassr just wins games by heavily outscoring to compensate the defensive mistakes, and I'd say that's the way for Inter as well. Concede quite a few goals, but take advantage of the offensive players and score even more.

 

[MrEleson]

The best team in the Saudi league soundly beating the worst team in the MLS? Shocked.

AlNassar arent the best team in the Saudi league.

also, I genuinely think they would annihilate the other MLS teams the same. I guess we’ll likely never find out though.

 

[MrEleson]

Is his skillset that complete though?

How many goals dribbling or chipping the goalkeeper has he scored? How many different techniques does he use to hit the ball? I remember him using that powerful shot with his instep in any situation. How many volleys? I don't even think that his headers are that special; it's his jumps that are unbelievable and almost always guarantee he reaches the ball first than the defender.

I'm not even mentioning goals receiving the ball with his back to the goal, because he wasn't a CF for most of his career.

Not sure which Ronaldo you’ve been watching but he’s literally done everything you’ve questioned here.

 

[SirAF]

AlNassar arent the best team in the Saudi league.

also, I genuinely think they would annihilate the other MLS teams the same. I guess we’ll likely never find out though.

I think so too, but the only way we would properly find out is if they met in the Club World Cup

 

[Gehrman]

AlNassar arent the best team in the Saudi league.

also, I genuinely think they would annihilate the other MLS teams the same. I guess we’ll likely never find out though.

Well 2nd best then and Inter Miami were the worst untill recently and have only made marginal progress. Maybe the best teams in the Saudi pro league are stronger than the top teams in the MLS, but I dont think the average team or player is better. Opta keeps ranking the Saudi league behind the MLS and there is probably a reason for that since they understand this better than I do, but Im sure with the investment from Saudi Arabia they will become a decent league if the investment continues.

 

[Real Name]

I just hope nobody is using last night game as some kind of proof one player is better than the other.

 

[Gehrman]

I just hope nobody is using last night game as some kind of proof one player is better than the other.

Messi couldnt overturn being behind 6-0 because Ronaldo´s mental superpowers were preventing him when Messi was subbed with 7 minutes to go.

 

[RedRonaldo]

MLS teams are just hopeless. If its not for Messi they wouldn't even be invited on exhibition tours.

 

[Gehrman]

MLS teams are just hopeless. If its not for Messi they wouldn't even be invited on exhibition tours.

Beckham played a friendly against Chelsea for his team when he joined the MLS. Point being nobody who follows European football cares about any of these teams, they just get some pr when they have landed a big name who's past it

 

[Real Name]

Unlike those brilliant Saudi teams.

 

[Gehrman]

Unlike those brilliant Saudi teams.

I kind of took it as a given that i included Saudi teams in that.

 

[Real Name]

I kind of took it as a given that i included Saudi teams in that.

It was a response to a post above yours, until I wrote it your post was already posted.

 

[Zehner]

AlNassar arent the best team in the Saudi league.

also, I genuinely think they would annihilate the other MLS teams the same. I guess we’ll likely never find out though.

Al Ahli lost with a 4 goal difference to Heidenheim and Al Nassr 5:0 to Celta and 4:1 to Benfica in preseason matches. I don't think winning a friendly 6:0 to the worst team in the MLS that didn't play a competitive match since October suddenly makes them an all conquering force. It is only a question which league is worse.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

Saudi teams suck. 95% of the league is still Saudi players and 5% washed up European league players who don't care except Ronaldo.

Saudi national team knocked out early in the Asian cup as always. If you don't national good national / local players. You're not going to have a good league.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Beckham played a friendly against Chelsea for his team when he joined the MLS. Point being nobody who follows European football cares about any of these teams, they just get some pr when they have landed a big name who's past it

Yeh that’s the whole point, they only come to watch the most popular footballer on the planet.

 

[Gehrman]

Yeh that’s the whole point, they only come to watch the most popular footballer on the planet.

But you do that agree applies to the Saudi teams as well? Id honestly never thought about Saudi Arabia playing football untill the 2022 WC and couldnt name a single team in the Saudi League untill recently where I can remember Al Nassr and Al Hilal.

Pelé, Cryuff, Messi, George Best, Zlatan, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Henry etc. I dont keep a list, but the mls is a league thats very often been the destination after great footballers are past their best.

 

[swooshboy]

Is his skillset that complete though?

How many goals dribbling or chipping the goalkeeper has he scored? How many different techniques does he use to hit the ball? I remember him using that powerful shot with his instep in any situation. How many volleys? I don't even think that his headers are that special; it's his jumps that are unbelievable and almost always guarantee he reaches the ball first than the defender.

I'm not even mentioning goals receiving the ball with his back to the goal, because he wasn't a CF for most of his career.

So you’re saying Ronaldo is not a great header of the ball, but just a great jumper.

Seems odd to try and separate the elements of heading just so you can try and diminish his ability.

 

[devaneios]

So you’re saying Ronaldo is not a great header of the ball, but just a great jumper.

Seems odd to try and separate the elements of heading just so you can try and diminish his ability.

Yeah, it's exactly what I'm saying and there's nothing odd about separating different things. It's like saying a player is good at off ball movement and positioning, but not a great finisher(shooting the ball into the net). Is this idea so bizarre?

I think he's very good at headers though, just not elite. He can put a lot of power in them, but he is not that great at directing the ball using his head.

Anyway, this has become a very stupid discussion at this point. The other poster phrased it bad when he said "most lethal finisher" and I took it too serious.

 

[Zen86]

Yeah, it's exactly what I'm saying and there's nothing odd about separating different things. It's like saying a player is good at off ball movement and positioning, but not a great finisher(shooting the ball into the net). Is this idea so bizarre?

I think he's very good at headers though, just not elite. He can put a lot of power in them, but he is not that great at directing the ball using his head.

Anyway, this has become a very stupid discussion at this point. The other poster phrased it bad when he said "most lethal finisher" and I took it too serious.

He’s not a particularly good jumper either, just good at bending his knees and springing himself upwards.