Cristiano Ronaldo - 976/1000 | Football only

Oranges038 said:
Like I said before up to the point where Messi and Ronaldo started to dominate the discussion about who is the best in the world. Cruyff was widely regarded as being one of the top players of all time, usually included in the 3 with Pele and Maradona.

I don't think Cruyff is the best player ever. Messi for me is probably the best player ever. But, Cruyff can be in the conversation, as these things are entirely subjective and down to personal choices. So, if someone were to say to me, "I think Cruyff is the best player ever". I wouldn't start introducing qualifiers like "he never scored or assisted in the knockout stages of the world cup" to try and remove him from consideration.
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I clearly remember the discussion and Cruyff was never in it. It was always, "who is the greatest, Pele or Maradona?" That's what it was before Messi v Ronaldo. No one ever seriously considered Cruyff to be the greatest (other than maybe some Dutch people and a few others, but i'm talking about common consensus), and part of the reason was the World Cup.

Ronaldo has the advantage of the Champions League growing so much in importance in the modern era, so he can kind of mask his World Cup failures (which are much worse than Cruyff's) in a way that Cruyff couldn't (Cruyff also 'threepeated' in the European Cup, but the European Cup didn't have the pull then that the CL has now, for various reasons).

But as time goes on, and Ronaldo's PR subsides, that gaping hole in his resume will only become more apparent to posterity.
 
Bubz27 said:
Well Pele and Messi haven't done what Ronaldo's done either, and that was the original post I replied to.
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Erm yes they have. What haven't they done? I mean, actual notable things, not holding this or that goalscoring record, because they all hold records that the others don't. That's not important. Plus Pele played mostly in totally different competitions.
 
Bubz27 said:
Disingenuous to narrow Ronaldo down to just a profilic goalscorer isn't it?

Unprecedented (that means no ones ever done it before) performances in the actual greatest football competition in the world (Champions League), breaking multiple records in that competition. Being the top scorer in his country's first ever tournament win.

I'm not in no Ronaldo or Messi camp, I find that argument boring. But there's some downplaying of Ronaldo thats unfair in my opinion. To just say loads of players have done what he's done is insane in my opinion.
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You're exaggerating. His only truly memorable performances (regardless of his goals) were:
Vs Roma home 06/07
Vs Arsenal away 08/09
Vs Juve 17/18
Vs Atletico 18/19
And even these weren't exactly "unprecedented"
For the most part in the UCL even in his prime, it was the goals. Nothing wrong with that but certainly nothing "unprecedented".

Plus Messi actually has a better goal to game ratio. He could have surpassed Ronaldo's total but he decided to leave Europe on history own terms instead of being rejected by everyone and their dog.
 
Wand of a right foot said:
You're exaggerating. His only truly memorable performances (regardless of his goals) were:
Vs Roma home 06/07
Vs Arsenal away 08/09
Vs Juve 17/18
Vs Atletico 18/19
And even these weren't exactly "unprecedented"
For the most part in the UCL even in his prime, it was the goals. Nothing wrong with that but certainly nothing "unprecedented".

Plus Messi actually has a better goal to game ratio. He could have surpassed Ronaldo's total but he decided to leave Europe on history own terms instead of being rejected by everyone and their dog.
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My entire point in one post. Forget about being THE player in the only team to win the CL back to back to back or holding the scoring record for the CL single season (both unprecedented, right?).

But that last sentence, a complete disrespect to a modern great. I doubt you'd ever disrespect Messi going to PSG when he did and performing how he did there.
 
Wand of a right foot said:
You're exaggerating. His only truly memorable performances (regardless of his goals) were:
Vs Roma home 06/07
Vs Arsenal away 08/09
Vs Juve 17/18
Vs Atletico 18/19
And even these weren't exactly "unprecedented"
For the most part in the UCL even in his prime, it was the goals. Nothing wrong with that but certainly nothing "unprecedented".

Plus Messi actually has a better goal to game ratio. He could have surpassed Ronaldo's total but he decided to leave Europe on history own terms instead of being rejected by everyone and their dog.
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Bayern? 17?
Mickey 23?
 
Stadjer said:
Im suprised to see that Ronaldo has more assists than Messi even if he played quite a few games more. I dont think Ronaldo was anywhere near Messi as a creater/creative player.
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Suarez has lots of asists too, this does not mean neither of him or CR played in the way/role/from the positions and against the usual squemes Messi did it, that it's quite a different enviroment.
 
Kwabs said:
I clearly remember the discussion and Cruyff was never in it. It was always, "who is the greatest, Pele or Maradona?" That's what it was before Messi v Ronaldo. No one ever seriously considered Cruyff to be the greatest (other than maybe some Dutch people and a few others, but i'm talking about common consensus), and part of the reason was the World Cup.

Ronaldo has the advantage of the Champions League growing so much in importance in the modern era, so he can kind of mask his World Cup failures (which are much worse than Cruyff's) in a way that Cruyff couldn't (Cruyff also 'threepeated' in the European Cup, but the European Cup didn't have the pull then that the CL has now, for various reasons).

But as time goes on, and Ronaldo's PR subsides, that gaping hole in his resume will only become more apparent to posterity.
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That's simply not true...(same with Di Stefano, his predecesor in loose terms of characteristics)...which doesn't mean that nowadays he might (sadly) be even forgotten

...and the reasons behind a certain consensus of considering someone the best ever, aren't normally strictly football realted as everything that happens in this game. Like the other poster said, there is no issue, or better said should have been no issue if someone preffers among evryone Cryuff as a player.

At the end of the day, no one would ever discuss the ammount of weight (and tons of romanticism) given to WCs and how this transforms the image and weight of a players carreer, yet man, just relax if someone does not thing that notion to be that important within his personal taste.
 
Bubz27 said:
My entire point in one post. Forget about being THE player in the only team to win the CL back to back to back or holding the scoring record for the CL single season (both unprecedented, right?).

But that last sentence, a complete disrespect to a modern great. I doubt you'd ever disrespect Messi going to PSG when he did and performing how he did there.
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I don't think you get the point here. Ronaldo, even at the height of his powers (2007 to 2014), was a goalscorer; even though his allround play during that time was at a good level, the goals were by far the most important thing he contributed on the pitch. He wasnt a great dribbler (around 2 to 2.5 completed per game is good, nothing great), he wasn't a great passer or playmaker and he contributed nothing defensively or interms of pressing. Therefore, whether you like it or not, Ronaldo will always be synonymous with goals rather than great allround play. There is nothing wrong with that and it certainly isnt an insult.

Also, what is fact is that by the time Real won those 3 title, Ronaldo had already transformed into an almost pure goalscorer (some might say poacher) given his general play had deteriorated significantly after he turned 30.

That Real was successful in the UCL was down to having a very strong team (Ronaldo had world class teammates in every position who played big roles as did Ronaldo) and their traditional luck/ win against the odds tendencies in the competition. Real were outplayed so many times only to get a last minute winner or a goal out of nothing; If it wasnt Ronaldo scoring, it was Benzema or Kroos or Modric or Ramos or Bale eg 2016 final, 2018 final etc Something they've repeated twice since then. One can claim that Ronaldo benefited from playing there probably more than they benefited from having him there. Benezema had an almost identical season to Ronaldo’s 16/17 season in the UCL. Last season, other players did what Ronaldo did in those 3 seasons; score crucial goals.

Messi went to PSG at age 34, struggled in the first season due to alot of factors (himself and his family weren't settled, he went there against his will, he had to adapt to a competely new environment/city/country/club), was arguably theirs best player in the first half of his second season (almost like preparing for the world cup) then stopped giving a f*** after the world cup. Simple as. PSG project was something Messi never really warmed up to. I have no issues if people say he was below par because he was apart from pre-world cup half season.
 
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Bubz27 said:
Of course it is. Of course it is.

I'm bowing out of this conversation because I'm not getting dragged into a Ronaldo v Messi type debate. That was never my original point, at no point have I really compared the two or others. All I said is Ronaldo is harshly judged nowadays. That's it.
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Again, calling him „not top 5 all time“ isn’t exactly judging him harshly. Being somewhere between 6 and 10 when millions have played the game is „quite good“.
 
I can't help but wonder, if he were playing in the MLS, would he still rack up those incredible numbers? I am surprised why no American club has offered him an insane salary to move to the US. He speaks English fluently, has the largest following on social media by far, and has global appeal. Imagine reigniting the Messi vs. Ronaldo rivalry in the US. It could skyrocket America's global football presence, especially with the 2026 World Cup just 1.5 year away. The timing couldn't be better. This is what America loves. Epic rivalries that captivate the world and leave a lasting legacy: Rocky vs. Drago, Jordan vs. Kobe, Ali vs Frazier, Brady vs Manning, and now, Messi vs Ronaldo rivalry reignited on American soil. It is the ultimate narrative - heroes, comebacks, and the battle for greatness.
 
Nole said:
I can't help but wonder, if he were playing in the MLS, would he still rack up those incredible numbers? I am surprised why no American club has offered him an insane salary to move to the US. He speaks English fluently, has the largest following on social media by far, and has global appeal. Imagine reigniting the Messi vs. Ronaldo rivalry in the US. It could skyrocket America's global football presence, especially with the 2026 World Cup just 1.5 year away. The timing couldn't be better. This is what America loves. Epic rivalries that captivate the world and leave a lasting legacy: Rocky vs. Drago, Jordan vs. Kobe, Ali vs Frazier, Brady vs Manning, and now, Messi vs Ronaldo rivalry reignited on American soil. It is the ultimate narrative - heroes, comebacks, and the battle for greatness.
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They did. Sporting Kansas City came very close, but the Saudi offer was somewhat bigger.

 
Nole said:
I can't help but wonder, if he were playing in the MLS, would he still rack up those incredible numbers? I am surprised why no American club has offered him an insane salary to move to the US. He speaks English fluently, has the largest following on social media by far, and has global appeal. Imagine reigniting the Messi vs. Ronaldo rivalry in the US. It could skyrocket America's global football presence, especially with the 2026 World Cup just 1.5 year away. The timing couldn't be better. This is what America loves. Epic rivalries that captivate the world and leave a lasting legacy: Rocky vs. Drago, Jordan vs. Kobe, Ali vs Frazier, Brady vs Manning, and now, Messi vs Ronaldo rivalry reignited on American soil. It is the ultimate narrative - heroes, comebacks, and the battle for greatness.
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Pretty sure it's not in Ronaldo's interest to go to America for legal reasons relating to a previous incident.
 
Nole said:
I can't help but wonder, if he were playing in the MLS, would he still rack up those incredible numbers? I am surprised why no American club has offered him an insane salary to move to the US. He speaks English fluently, has the largest following on social media by far, and has global appeal. Imagine reigniting the Messi vs. Ronaldo rivalry in the US. It could skyrocket America's global football presence, especially with the 2026 World Cup just 1.5 year away. The timing couldn't be better. This is what America loves. Epic rivalries that captivate the world and leave a lasting legacy: Rocky vs. Drago, Jordan vs. Kobe, Ali vs Frazier, Brady vs Manning, and now, Messi vs Ronaldo rivalry reignited on American soil. It is the ultimate narrative - heroes, comebacks, and the battle for greatness.
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He would, because he's a goalhanger/penalty-box dweller, and his approach to goalscoring is basically 'throw as much mud at the wall as possible and see what sticks.' It's a 'volume of attempts' strategy. It's why the other guy scoring almost as many goals as him is a minor miracle, because he's done it on a thousand less shots.

Also, let's be frank. The MLS is not of the highest quality.
 
Kwabs said:
He would, because he's a goalhanger/penalty-box dweller, and his approach to goalscoring is basically 'throw as much mud at the wall as possible and see what sticks.' It's a 'volume of attempts' strategy. It's why the other guy scoring almost as many goals as him is a minor miracle, because he's done it on a thousand less shots.

Also, let's be frank. The MLS is not of the highest quality.
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Add to the 1000 less shots, a much higher level of general play (dribbling, playmaking, teamwork) and a higher quality of goals on average.
 
Kwabs said:
He would, because he's a goalhanger/penalty-box dweller, and his approach to goalscoring is basically 'throw as much mud at the wall as possible and see what sticks.' It's a 'volume of attempts' strategy. It's why the other guy scoring almost as many goals as him is a minor miracle, because he's done it on a thousand less shots.

Also, let's be frank. The MLS is not of the highest quality.
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Every great striker must be active and try to shoot as much as they can. It's extremely desirable for any team (even if sometimes involves some dumb play).

Come on, I'm far from CR biggest fan but why on hell coming time and again to his thread with some snide comment on the dude.

The lad even at almost 40 still has it and that's an achievement on itself, I preffer other players above him (which BTW doesn't mean that those had a better carreer or even are clearly better, just my taste). He has some annoying attitudes when he opens his mouth, but leaving lots of stuff surrounding him, he is a pehnom of a player to treat him almost like a mere "volume of attemps strategy".
 
Trainwreck of a thread, not sure where to post this. I fear that in the coming decades, a lot of really biased people will try and tarnish his legacy.

Here you go.



Not a real CR7 fan, have always been bitter about him leaving us and becoming even better at Real Madrid. Maybe could and should have done more at World Cups, but Messi and he are even above Zidane, Ronaldinho, R9 and Cruyff.

We have been lucky to witness them and I doubt we'll see players as good as them, any time soon.

The way some people reduce him to being a poacher, is just completely insane. So agenda driven.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Trainwreck of a thread, not sure where to post this. I fear that in the coming decades, a lot of really biased people will try and tarnish his legacy.

Here you go.



Not a real CR7 fan, have always been bitter about him leaving us and becoming even better at Real Madrid. Maybe could and should have done more at World Cups, but Messi and he are even above Zidane, Ronaldinho, R9 and Cruyff.

We have been lucky to witness them and I doubt we'll see players as good as them, any time soon.

The way some people reduce him to being a poacher, is just completely insane. So agenda driven.
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The problem with these videos is that they eliminate context and only show what the fanboy wants you to see.

Obviously, he had good to very good general play from 2006 to around 2014 or 15. He wasnt a poacher at the time but my stand is that his general play wasn't at the highest of levels that other greats reached AND of all the thing he did on the football pitch, it was the goals that were by far the most impressive. Without the goals, he would not get nearly as much recognition. Keep in my mind that he hardly defended at all.

I won't compare him to Messi because the later also scored as many (while being levels up interms of general play) but rather to someone like Ronaldinho who did not score as much but whose general play from 2003 to 2006 was on another level to anything Cristiano did.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Trainwreck of a thread, not sure where to post this. I fear that in the coming decades, a lot of really biased people will try and tarnish his legacy.

Here you go.



Not a real CR7 fan, have always been bitter about him leaving us and becoming even better at Real Madrid. Maybe could and should have done more at World Cups, but Messi and he are even above Zidane, Ronaldinho, R9 and Cruyff.

We have been lucky to witness them and I doubt we'll see players as good as them, any time soon.

The way some people reduce him to being a poacher, is just completely insane. So agenda driven.
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Even early in his career as a winger he had a knack for being in the right place in and around the box.

Doesn't get enough credit for adapting his game and the change from winger to out and out goalscorer.
 
Reading some of these crazy posts in here makes being a 50 goal season 'poacher' sound so easy
 
I dont really think there is that many in here who reduce him to a glorified poacher and tap-in merchant. At least i dont see many. There is probably some recency bias at play due to his longevity where he's streamlined his game around goalscoring so he's spent more seasons playing like that than when he was a traditional winger.
 
2mufc0 said:
Reading some of these crazy posts in here makes being a 50 goal season 'poacher' sound so easy
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Yea the comments in here are just plain laughable. My favorite is the guy criticizing a highlight video saying it only shows you what the fanboy wants you to see. Hilarious takes on his evolvement in the teams when he “just” scored goals.
 
RedDevil [NC] said:
Yea the comments in here are just plain laughable. My favorite is the guy criticizing a highlight video saying it only shows you what the fanboy wants you to see. Hilarious takes on his evolvement in the teams when he “just” scored goals.
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You're taking the first paragraph of my entire post in isolation. Ive clearly stated in the subsequent paragraphs what my opinion of his general play in from 2006 to 2014 is. I can summarise for you:

1. 2003 - 2006: just poor decision making on the pitch, running into blind alleys, over elaboration instead of focusing on winning. Infuriating, at times exciting in his first season.

2. 2006 - 2014: Very good to good all-around play, just not at the highest of levels that some others reached. A goalscoring machine though with pace and power.

3. 2014 onwards: Mainly a goalscorer. His other contributions deteriorated significantly.
 
2mufc0 said:
Reading some of these crazy posts in here makes being a 50 goal season 'poacher' sound so easy
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Probably the same geniuses who were adamant that 1 goal Weigy was better for the team than Ronaldo with his goal output.
 
antsmithmk said:
Means we can sign him on a pre contract right? Better than Zirkzee and Hojland.
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With Ronaldo, the problem is always that he won't accept being on the bench.

He will likely stay where he is because he is guaranteed the playing time he feels he deserves.

I find it weird however, that in this current transfer window no clubs have approached him over a transfer. He is still a marketing dream for any club.
 
Luke1995 said:
I find it weird however, that in this current transfer window no clubs have approached him over a transfer. He is still a marketing dream for any club.
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He may offer a deluge of publicity at first but the sentiment of any story would be its an insane move for a football club.

No sensible club would offer him anything he's complete poison for the team, nevermind he hasn't got the quality for any top league. After 6 weeks you'd be praying for him to leave.
 
Terrific Tangerine said:
He may offer a deluge of publicity at first but the sentiment is always going to be its an insane move for any club.

No sensible club would offer him anything he's complete poison for any team, nevermind he hasn't got the quality for any top league. After 6 weeks you'd be praying for him to leave.
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This.

He's nearly 41 years old. No top club with half a brain would go anywhere near him, and rightly so.
 
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