I quote you here because the Cristiano thread makes more sense. In my opinion, you're comparing apples and oranges here. The most important aspect, for me, is that the squad situation is vastly different. Argentina's best players after Messi are probably Enzo, Alvarez and Lautaro. Good players, no doubt, and the rest of the squad is rock solid as well. But I doubt they'd funnel as much through Messi as they did if they had Vitinha, Joao Neves and Bruno Fernandes available. Those guys are among the best in the world. Moreover, Messi likes to drop deep and orchestrate the play while Cristiano at this stage of his career is - and frankly speaking, has been for at least 10 years - a target striker. Finding Messi around the box, in the half spaces or even in the middle of the pitch is much easier than creating chances for your striker.
Cristiano Ronaldo - 976/1000 | Football only
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I quote you here because the Cristiano thread makes more sense. In my opinion, you're comparing apples and oranges here. The most important aspect, for me, is that the squad situation is vastly different. Argentina's best players after Messi are probably Enzo, Alvarez and Lautaro. Good players, no doubt, and the rest of the squad is rock solid as well. But I doubt they'd funnel as much through Messi as they did if they had Vitinha, Joao Neves and Bruno Fernandes available. Those guys are among the best in the world. Moreover, Messi likes to drop deep and orchestrate the play while Cristiano at this stage of his career is - and frankly speaking, has been for at least 10 years - a target striker. Finding Messi around the box, in the half spaces or even in the middle of the pitch is much easier than creating chances for your striker.
How spain and previous barca and spain teams took opposition players out of the game with possession and pressing really highlights how excellent Ronaldo was to be able to score so many against those incredible barca sides. They were excellent defensively.
Yeah I can agree with much of your assessment. Although, I still do think things would run through Messi even if he had players like Vitinha and Bruno because that’s just his game. He needs to start and finish the build up. It’s very unlike any Messi team I’ve ever seen for things not to run through him. If he played with the aforementioned Portuguese players, their roles would probably be modified a great deal. It is apples and oranges like you said.
Messi played much farther up the pitch when he was trained by Guardiola. His dropping back was a result of his teams regressing in midfield so he had to get involved much earlier. It would be interesting to see if he'd still work as a false 9 these days. Vitinha and Joao Neves don't need any help at progressing the ball. Bruno could be difficult, though, since he shares a lot of similarities with this version of Messi.
Anyway, I think the dilemma for Portugal is that Cristiano might still be the biggest goal threat they have. You could theoretically play a hardworking striker there who helps more with possession and pressing but then you'd have to rely on the wide positions to score. But Leao hasn't hit double digits in the league in three years and the other options are no finishers. I'd probably still go with the Leao plan, though. Sometimes players who struggle a bit at club level still score like crazy for their international sides.
If longevity was the case I would have Cristiano above Messi.
Thats a ridiculous take after this summers WC. Ronaldo has been finished at the highest level since 2022 aged 37. Messi just bossed a World Cup at 39.
Ronaldo left United in summer 2022 ending any relevance to club football. Messi around the same age goes to Inter Miami, same thing. So we are now looking at their international careers as both are still scoring in sh*t leagues which IMO isn't much use to gauging longevity vs actual top level footballers.
Ronaldo:
His World Cup in 2022 yielded 1 goal, a penalty.
His Euro 24, 0 goals. 0 assists.
WC 2026 - 3 goals. 0 assists. 2 against absolute cannon fodder. Without him Portugal most likely a much better team according to most experts.
Messi:
Compare Messi from the same age, of 37, so Copa America 24 onwards:
2024 Copa America - 1 goal, 1 assist. But made Team of the Tournament.
2026 World Cup - 8 goals, 4 assists. Beaten to Golden Boot by 2 goals scored in a 3rd place exhibition game. Without him Argentina probably don't get past the QF, according to most experts.
Do people not consider facts, context and data when making points like this?
This is not a Ronaldo v Messi thread. Take it elsewhere
Stats are one thing, eye test another. The short guy was always on another level.
Nations League is set to take place in a few months.
One last ride? It's a glorified friendly but still counts
Jorge Jesus chats shit but we all know he'll do anything to get Ronaldo a trophy or two
One last ride? It's a glorified friendly but still counts
Jorge Jesus chats shit but we all know he'll do anything to get Ronaldo a trophy or two
He will be there, and i am sure he will be at the Euros if fit, at least on the bench. He needs trophies
Fixed
Congratulations to Ronaldo on once again making the Worst XI of the World Cup, two tournaments in a row now, another record to add to his impressive collection. Rumour has it that in 2030, he’ll be targeting an unprecedented third consecutive appearance in the World Cup’s Worst XI.
In between, he also managed to make the Worst XI of Euro 2024. That level of consistency and longevity is truly unheard of..
https://www.gazzetta.it/en/football...e-worst-performers/the-world-cups-worst.shtml
In between, he also managed to make the Worst XI of Euro 2024. That level of consistency and longevity is truly unheard of..
https://www.gazzetta.it/en/football...e-worst-performers/the-world-cups-worst.shtml
He needs to retire. It’s getting silly now. Hell, it’s been silly for a while now.
He should have retired in 2022.
Hmmmmmmm
Jorge Jesus has already made it clear that he is counting on them. This situation is becoming ridiculous.
Talking about this being his last year of football.
24 goal season incoming?
24 goal season incoming?
Messi's borderline-retirement has taken an infinite weight of his shoulders. He knows he's not being caught now.
Everyone knows he won’t stop until he scores 1000 goals.
Be interesting to see if he keeps scoring in retirement