Bateman is funny though.Portuguese Patrick Bateman at it again
HmmmmNever been his strongest trait
Tbh to him, not many come close in terms of "completeness". Speed, dribbling, poaching, long range shooting, free kicks, aerial strength, both footed, clutch gene. What's left?
There’s plenty of full games and footage that gives cause to rounded assessments of Pele. You definitely don’t need to have watched him first hand to judge, just as you don’t with any legend of the game with footage; if you watch a handful of Puskas games, for example, it’s easy to see that is one of the best left feet in history; if you watch a handful of Charlton games, you can see this is a player whose shooting is incontestable for all but a handful of players throughout history; you watch a few games of Best and it’s evident this guy is one of the best dribblers you will see. All the greats match their billing, otherwise they’d be discredited sharpish, especially so with how so many seem eager to denigrate the past or call it nostalgia.Out of interest how old are you?
Pele might be all of those things but unless you were alive to see him in his pomp and actually went along to a number of his games it is incredibly hard to make that statement with such certainty. There is not that much footage of Pele playing and what exists is of very limited quality making it next to impossible to judge him against contemporary players. I am not saying he was not great but this is an argument that has been going on amongst real scholars of the game for a while now, much of his legend is received wisdom rather than objective assessment, his acheievements were incredible but came in a far less professional era for the sport. To state with such certainty that he is essentially better at everything than Ronaldo is bizarre unless you have extensive first hand knowledge.
When did he play for Charlton?There’s plenty of full games and footage that gives cause to rounded assessments of Pele. You definitely don’t need to have watched him first hand to judge, just as you don’t with any legend of the game with footage; if you watch a handful of Puskas games, for example, it’s easy to see that is one of the best left feet in history; if you watch a handful of Charlton games, you can see this is a player whose shooting is incontestable for all but a handful of players throughout history; you watch a few games of Best and it’s evident this guy is one of the best dribblers you will see. All the greats match their billing, otherwise they’d be discredited sharpish, especially so with how so many seem eager to denigrate the past or call it nostalgia.
He said period. Debate over.
This is completely false. There's a website called Footballia which has 40+ full matches featuring Pele. Including games from the 58 World Cup, the 62 World Cup and all of the games from the 1970 world cup. Those are worth watching just to see a great team, rather than just Pele.Out of interest how old are you?
Pele might be all of those things but unless you were alive to see him in his pomp and actually went along to a number of his games it is incredibly hard to make that statement with such certainty. There is not that much footage of Pele playing and what exists is of very limited quality making it next to impossible to judge him against contemporary players. I am not saying he was not great but this is an argument that has been going on amongst real scholars of the game for a while now, much of his legend is received wisdom rather than objective assessment, his acheievements were incredible but came in a far less professional era for the sport. To state with such certainty that he is essentially better at everything than Ronaldo is bizarre unless you have extensive first hand knowledge.
There are a lot more games available for Pele than the World Cups. Human kinesiology has barely changed - they aren’t playing some vastly different game; the technical level on display is apparent. You don’t need anything but eyes to see that certain things are extraordinary, unless you can watch, say, a Maradona compilation (not even full games) and think ‘meh, couldn’t do that now’. Fitness levels, tactical variations and so forth have moved on, but only maybe three players since the 80’s are anywhere near as refined with their control and manipulation of the ball as the wee Argentine, and even that’s stretching it. Puskas, a player from the 50’s, no less, still easily has a claim to be the best striker of a ball the game has ever seen. These things can be judged in isolation; you don’t need to be of the here and now, or the supposed modern era, to see it. And that can be extrapolated to more aspects of a player or even the whole player - you don’t need to see much of a Best to know his way of moving and the acceleration that comes with it is timeless. As I say humans, as a species, have not moved on enough for it to not be so.When did he play for Charlton?
I jest, I do take your point but having said that you are mostly relying on a handful of World Cup games filmed very primitively to make an assessment of Pele and you are of course judging him against the players of his day. I did not express it well but my overall point was that people make statements about how great this player or that player is and often there is little objective analysis behind it. Once you venture into comparing one player against another, particularly from different eras, then you are really getting into the realms of personal preference and emotional attachment and we are all susceptible to conventional wisdom in the case of legends of the game.
I don't think Ronaldo is the best player ever by the way, that is clearly Gareth Bale.
I am Welsh, what did you think I would say?
Totally agree with the bolded to be fair, his mentality is possibly the most elite trait he has. I admire the way CR7 has been so single minded and sacrificed so much to remain in the physical shape he has for this long but I have never thought of him as being the most technically skillful player in any area. He is a case study in maximising everything you have.It's pretty clear from watching the footage that he was far superior to CR in many ways - CR is very talented, but doesn't have genius level footballing ability IMO - his strength is his athleticism and extreme focus and determination. Pele was a genius.
There are a lot more games available for Pele than the World Cups. Human kinesiology has barely changed - they aren’t playing some vastly different game; the technical level on display is apparent. You don’t need anything but eyes to see that certain things are extraordinary, unless you can watch, say, a Maradona compilation (not even full games) and think ‘meh, couldn’t do that now’. Fitness levels, tactical variations and so forth have moved on, but only maybe three players since the 80’s are anywhere near as refined with their control and manipulation of the ball as the wee Argentine, and even that’s stretching it. Puskas, a player from the 50’s, no less, still easily has a claim to be the best striker of a ball the game has ever seen. These things can be judged in isolation; you don’t need to be of the here and now, or the supposed modern era, to see it. And that can be extrapolated to more aspects of a player or even the whole player - you don’t need to see much of a Best to know his way of moving and the acceleration that comes with it is timeless. As I say humans, as a species, have not moved on enough for it to not be so.
He does seem like someone who wants to be like Zlatan and actually has more to back the claims up. But while Zlatan has some charisma when he tries to make everyone vomit, Ronaldo does sound like some misunderstood Tate-type of incel, especially when he tells his jokes about how he "teases" his kids back by saying daddy is the best of all time. Though I do appreciate that he does talk up some other players, like most recently he did for Vini and Mbappe.The Adam Tate of Football.
Not really straying as Cron has opened the floor to all-time discussion. There are plenty of threads on here that delve into the subject if you’re interested. There’s also the objective reasoning that you literally could not press as a unit on the pitches of those times, in those heavy cotton kits and so forth. I’d also argue that the emphasis on fitness and athleticism has come at a cost: ball manipulation and training is suffering and progression is proving to be far from linear.Much of that I agree with, there is actually a good case to be made that considering the weight of the ball in previous eras, standard of pitches and other impediments that contrary to popular opinion it is modern players who would struggle in an earlier era and not the other way around. It is a fascinating debate and much better in the pub but I don't want to derail this particular thread any further as I fear I am straying way off topic.
He's always been an unlikeable twat. It's just that his ability on the patch no longer matches his ego, so people are noticing his character defects even more.I'm starting to think the dislike of Ronaldo's character has impacted the ability to judge him as a player.
Those are good points and talents were also terrific before. Maybe it's the current generation of tactics also, but nowadays lower than impeccable fitness does seem to lead to snowing under currently, though. But if Pele would play today, he'd probably be more fit, too. Just as many players would be more adjusted to those older balls, too. Perhaps back then charisma and star power were more important, as well, where now not even Messi could win (strings of) games on his own after 2015/16 or so. Even though back then 25 goals a season was star power, it was often enough to lead the rest on to perform to greater heights, in support of the star player, but also of the total number of goals.Much of that I agree with, there is actually a good case to be made that considering the weight of the ball in previous eras, standard of pitches and other impediments that contrary to popular opinion it is modern players who would struggle in an earlier era and not the other way around. It is a fascinating debate and much better in the pub but I don't want to derail this particular thread any further as I fear I am straying way off topic.
Him saying he's the most complete player in history is the most embarrassing thing I've read anywhere. Just accept you lived in an era where there was someone better than you mate, why is that so hard to accept (not even talking about Maradona and Pele here). The guy is probably among the best 5 players of all time and somehow that's not enough for him. What a sad mentality.
Username checks outMost of the all time great athletes are egomaniacs, it’s part of what gets them there. Most hide it well, Ronaldo not so much.
Username checks out
He's always been an unlikeable twat. It's just that his ability on the patch no longer matches his ego, so people are noticing his character defects even more.
I'm starting to think the dislike of Ronaldo's character has impacted the ability to judge him as a player.
Why do you guys care so much? He’s in the elite of the elite and an all time great, it’s not like it’s someone like Ivan Toney claiming he’s the greatest player ever. He can claim to be the best, some will agree, many won’t but he’s in the mixer.The more he says stuff like that more he reeks of insecurity. The best don’t need to tell people they’re the best, it clearly eats away at him that he’s not considered the best of his own generation let alone all time. For a guy about to hit 40 he’s a serious man child.
Absolutely, and this is why he's a hero to so many people. He sets goals and he attacks them, and a lot of people find inspiration in this.Totally agree with the bolded to be fair, his mentality is possibly the most elite trait he has. I admire the way CR7 has been so single minded and sacrificed so much to remain in the physical shape he has for this long but I have never thought of him as being the most technically skillful player in any area. He is a case study in maximising everything you have.
Thanks for the response by the way, I was curious as I so often hear people throw out the name of Pele or even our own George Best when they were not even born in the last century and in many cases they have not watched them.
The more he says stuff like that more he reeks of insecurity. The best don’t need to tell people they’re the best, it clearly eats away at him that he’s not considered the best of his own generation let alone all time. For a guy about to hit 40 he’s a serious man child.
Because we’re football fans and like to talk about football? Do we need to ask your permission or something?Why do you guys care so much? He’s in the elite of the elite and an all time great, it’s not like it’s someone like Ivan Toney claiming he’s the greatest player ever. He can claim to be the best, some will agree, many won’t but he’s in the mixer.
Messi scored a couple of goals in training, and Ronaldo got insecure.Did something trigger his comments recently like adding to his cl tally with a brace against Al Wasl or does he just feel need to say it all the time?
Why would your answer be so defensive? It was a genuine question - it seems very strange if you think he’s the second best player of his generation that you have such an issue with him believing he’s the best. It’s not that crazy a leap as said.Because we’re football fans and like to talk about football? Do we need to ask your permission or something?
Anyway he’s a bell end who’s clearly insecure about the fact the overwhelming majority consider him to be the 2nd best of his generation. Most people would be delighted with that, but it seems to cause him a lot of distress.
The way he refers to himself in the third person will never not be funny.![]()
Was my first thought as wellGeorge Remus likes this.