better than Messi in 2021?
Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin
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No direct comparison this year for me as they were mainly shining in different league and different competitions (Serie A vs LL, Euro vs Copa). But both of them are still best in the business (in the competitions they are playing).
Messi had a great tournament and by winning a Copa America he's now closer to Cristiano as both have won titles for their countries.
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meanwhile, some bums he plays with and were heavily critized here while being labeled slow & spent won some trophy last night as well 
Chiesa and the 2 CBs were always highly regarded. It’s the midfield that’s always been the issue at Juve.meanwhile, some bums he plays with and were heavily critized here while being labeled slow & spent won some trophy last night as well
And Messi actually played in the final.
very flawed stats in fairness. The penalty goals inflated his match ratings.
And in a group containing France and Germany, plus a Hungary side that was comfortably the best 4th placed group side in the tournament. Impressive.
it was three penalties and a tap in mate
So goals?
Not really, considering in the match against Belgium he completed the most take-ons and created the most chances in the game. Ditto the same against Germany when he was the highest rated player on the pitch despite being on the losing side. Ironically, he wasn’t the highest rated
player in the two games he did score penalties. But I get it, it’s by default that everything Ronaldo does and achieves is down to penalties.
Ronaldo did play on the final though, and it had an impact of the game. Messi didn't have a particular outstanding game and going a bit off topic the quality of games in Copa America was poor, I was expecting more of the final but if you watched the game Messi and Neymar were kicked the shit out whenever they had the ball at their feet; the games are just horrendous and very chaotic. That being said both of them were the most influential players for their teams and had solid performances throughout their respective continental cups.
Playing badly in yet another final hardly helps.
Incidently, Ronaldo did play in the final.
He played what? 10 minutes?
25min officially, obvious about 10min of which was him limping around trying to carry on.
Yeah, i know. I was most messing with you guys in here.
A common reason to put Ronaldo over Messi was, that Ronaldo won a trophy with Portugal. In reality he helped them getting to a final and had no impact on the outcome.
All in all, it is ridiculous to compare players on their national team‘s success
He did, he played badly too in his final.
Did you watch that game? he did have an impact on the game in a very significant manner.
He played uninjured for about the first 10 to 15 minutes. The goal was scored in the 110 minute. What exactly was his impact?
Getting injured after 15min or so hardly qualifies as playing badly.
He was on the pitch for 1/4 of the regular 90 minutes and he didn't make any impression. Obviously its not a lot of time but it is time. Players who have seen less time have often contributed more even than the 15 minutes he wasn't injured. Its not a knock on him, he's had great finals and poor finals before and in that game before the injury he offered little.
Not aimed at you in particular but Messi contributed more to Argentina's final than CR7 did to Portugals, simply by being on the pitch, saying anything else is rubbish even if Messi was poor by his own standards. Trying to belittle Messi who did have a poor game on the basis of said poor game, then trying to say Ronnie contributed a lot to Portugal as cheer leader is ridiculous. Messi had a far bigger impact on the Copa final than Ronnie in the Euro final (and I'd argue nations league final too).
Juventus midfield is shit
Rabiot-Benatancur-McKenney
Ramsey and Arthur as perm injured ones
Messi was poor by any standards in that final, my first post that day was to congratulate him on finally winning something with his country, but let's not pretend his contributed much in the last 2 games of the competition.
Anyway, it's not about Messi, we can take it to that thread if you really want to argue who did less in their country winning the final.
To be fair, trying to belittle Messi for his final game and trying to belittle Ronaldo for not even having almost played the final, is just insane.
Truth is both were fundamental in their respective national team's conquest of an international tournament. The thing is, with these two guys, people expect them to bail their teams out every single game, or else it's a choke. The standard expectation is wildly off the roof. You can argue each of them could have benefitted from having a world class game in their finals, but I don't see how not having it could actually lower the player's overall tournament appreciation. In both these tournaments they each won, none of the teams would have even won it without their direct contribution. It's not one game that's gonna bulge what I saw during the whole tourney.
Truth is both were fundamental in their respective national team's conquest of an international tournament. The thing is, with these two guys, people expect them to bail their teams out every single game, or else it's a choke. The standard expectation is wildly off the roof. You can argue each of them could have benefitted from having a world class game in their finals, but I don't see how not having it could actually lower the player's overall tournament appreciation. In both these tournaments they each won, none of the teams would have even won it without their direct contribution. It's not one game that's gonna bulge what I saw during the whole tourney.
How on earth did Juve mismanage their midfield like that.
Messi assisted in the semi final and was pretty solid. Not so good in the final
If England has scored either 2 of the 3 missed penalties they would be winning the Euro mate.
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Tap in where he won defensive header in his own box and made a sprint full length of the pitch to lose his marker, yeah just a tap in.
One can’t compare a group stage penalty to a shootout in the final. But then this thread is nothing but comparisons.
In general (not directed to you specifically), it’s a tiresome partisan debate. If one falls on the side of relative impartiality it gets a little easier. I don’t particularly like Ronaldo the personality but respect his footballing ability. Until recently I was indifferent to Messi the personality, until his obscene contract and effective host aging of a bankrupt Barca came to light. Not that I have much sympathy for Barca in general.
What always struck me is that there are the two obvious camps of die hard Ronaldo and Messi fans, who will go to their graves saying their boy is the best. But outside of them, the opinion I nearly always hear from the impartial general public is that Messi is a level above. And it’s something I happen to agree with. Nearly all their statistics and accomplishments are parallel, one more than the other here or there. But nothing to set one apart.
The rest is subjective, and all around I - like most largely impartial people - just consider Messi to be a better all around footballer, more of a magician. I mean they are both so good, it really doesn’t matter, but if you had to make a call - and following most mass surveys, as well as the opinion of those in the game, Messi takes it hands down.
With all that said, Ronaldo certainly has that clinical instinct that so few players have ever had to that extent.
I think the deciding factor for me was that while Ronaldo has made a career out of doing what we’ve seen lots of other players do, just doing it better, preposterously consistently, and for a really long time, Messi made a career out of doing things others couldn’t do - as well as doing what they could, and again with preposterous consistency. It’s that fine line between ruthless efficiency and a relentless dedication to self improvement, and genius.
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Ok hold on a minute, I don’t know why you quote me here to bring up all this, maybe you have misquote my post? Not that I would agree or disagree with your opinion, but the fact that my original post you refer to didn’t even mention Messi once, as this is a Ronaldo thread, really puzzle me here with your long response in comparing the two players.
What I am simply saying is, scoring penalty could be very decisive in major tournament and should be taken more seriously, as opposed to those who regard penalty as nothing. Mbappe missed and France is out, Rashford/Sancho/Saka missed and England continue to go trophyless for over half century. If Ronaldo didn’t score those, Portugal wouldn’t even qualify from group stage. They are all crucial and not many players have what it takes to always converted those on crucial moment in major tournament.
There has been a very high missed rate of penalty in this tournament too. Out of 16 penalties awarded, only 9 of them are scored. Thats only 56% success rate there.
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I'm not sure if you watched the game or not but to answer your question I think his injury is what broke France rhythm, they were relentless on the first minutes and it seemed inevitable they were going to score as Portugal was being overwhelmed. Ronaldo did try to do the right thing by trying to hold the ball and slow down the pace of the game but when he got the opportunity to receive the ball and do that he was fouled and injured.
It's probably not the answer you wanted to hear but him being injured did had a great impact on the game, after being injured until he came out the mood in the stadium changed dramatically. The game was stopped for several minutes and you could tell everyone in the stadium was upset about what happened to him. So I think all of this played into Portugal's favor as this interruption of the game is what broke France rhythm, they were able to catch a break and better accommodate defensively. To be honest it's very likely had Ronaldo not being injured France would have gotten ahead in the score quite early on. I also think him being injured and visible devastated inspired the team and he also was very vocal while being on the bench.
I mean I'm not going to say he had a good game as he barely played as he was injured but he clearly had an impact on that game, Renato's goal and him being injured is probably what everyone will remember from that game so it isn't like his presence was inconsequential and that Portugal was going to win anyway if he didn't exist.
I quite literally said “In general not specifically to you”. To you directly I only talked about the penalty issue. Be nice to read the actual words before responding.
I know what you’ve said, but it is still a wrong post under wrong thread to a wrong poster.
You have to admit it's very funny that after 5 years of Messi's fans criticizing Ronaldo for his Portugal win, he goes and wins the Copa America with two relatively ineffectual performances in the last two games.
Ewing Theory?
To be fair to Ronaldo, he was heavily let down by some of the Portugal players, especially Bernardo Silva, Jota and Bruno, can't say about Felix as he didn't play much.
That front 3/4 is supposed to be creating chances for fun, Silva was too passive and Jota too selfish.
That front 3/4 is supposed to be creating chances for fun, Silva was too passive and Jota too selfish.
Ronaldo has been good for Portugal in the Euros. The end result of that is he won a trophy with Portugal. That it wasn't in his best season isn't too surprising; these things happen if you're good for long enough.
Ronaldo was already past his peak when he won it with Portugal. He was past his peak when he won the 3 CLs with RM too.
Portugal really need a change of manager. The current incumbent is like southgate and too defensive, conservative and scared to let his attacking talent off the leash. Portugal like England have some fantastic attacking players, let them off the leash and Ronaldo will score more goals.
This. I’d love for them to have a new coach for 22 and give it a real go.
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