Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin

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simonhch

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I’m not Ronaldo’s biggest fan but he’s obviously still performing at a high level. He’s one of the top 5 players of all time, and his achievements are incredible. I wouldn’t say he’s been sensational this year. He’s scored a decent amount of goals, despite having a lot of penalties, and obviously takes extra plaudits because he’s 35, and still doing it.

But of course, it warrants consideration that he’s doing it for the dominant team, winning their 9th title in a row, in a second tier league.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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I’m not Ronaldo’s biggest fan but he’s obviously still performing at a high level. He’s one of the top 5 players of all time, and his achievements are incredible. I wouldn’t say he’s been sensational this year. He’s scored a decent amount of goals, despite having a lot of penalties, and obviously takes extra plaudits because he’s 35, and still doing it.

But of course, it warrants consideration that he’s doing it for the dominant team, winning their 9th title in a row, in a second tier league.
Is the Serie A that much worse than the Prem, Bundesliga or La Liga this season to be considered a 2nd tier league? That seems a bit hyperbolic.

They have some good teams.
 

SportingCP96

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You may need to go back to the first post I replied to.

Ronaldo's teammates would probably feel a bit hard done by having won him penalties in double figures but have some people wondering how he scored so much in an apparently poor team. If this Juve team is as poor as we are being made to believe, then Ronaldo has scored 19 goals in a poor team, not 31.

A few players in Juve's team probably could have scored those penalties of which they did well to win. Then no one would be talking about him carrying a poor team.

How has Ronaldo scored so much in a team as poor as Juve? They won penalties in double figures, and let him take them. That's as good an answer as you'd get.
The correct answer is because GOATs do GOAT things. He is a 1 of 1 in the sport for a reason.

Additionally without Ronaldo there is No way in hell this Juve team win the league this season.
 

simonhch

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Is the Serie A that much worse than the Prem, Bundesliga or La Liga this season to be considered a 2nd tier league? That seems a bit hyperbolic.

They have some good teams.
Yes it’s much worse than the Prem and La Liga. Probably comparable to the Bundesliga, which itself is a one horse race.
 

SportingCP96

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Yes it’s much worse than the Prem and La Liga. Probably comparable to the Bundesliga, which itself is a one horse race.
Before this season Barcelona won 8 La Liga titles out of the last 11. 8 of the last 12 including this season.

Clearly it's not much worse considering La Liga has been a 1 horse race for the better part of 12 years.
 

InterFan1998

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Worst Juve team since 10/11 when they finished in 7th place. Attack has no substance or creativity either.

Shambolic team. I would love to know how the hell this man has managed to score as much as he has.

Will take a herculean performance to knock out Lyon because If they meet Man City they will get destroyed.
Few reasons.

1) He's a great player.
2) Handball rule. Applies to most penalty kick takers in Serie A as.die to the change in rule, there are many more penalties. Since the average number of penalties has gone up due to new rules, it means that penalty takers will generally have more goals. I dont know the numbers but Immobile definitely.has to have taken more penalties this year than last.
3) League is very weak, especially the "bottom" 10 teams. Take a look at Ibra. He's 39 and looks like a top 3 players in Serie A. He has contributed 14 goals in 17 matches.

Also, take a look at Quagliarella last season. Played in an awful team (much worse than Juve this year) and hit 26 goals. It's just how the league is nowadays. Icardi at Inter had a great scoring record despite being in a really one-dimensional terrible team.

Obviously this takes nothing away from Ronaldo, but Serie A has really fallen down, especially the bottom teams. Immobile is largely considered an average player and choker but he's killing it in Serie A. Even Luis Alberto looks like one of the best players in the league while he'd probably be in a midtable La Liga team if he was in Spain.

Lukaku has also hit 23 goals in his first season in Serie A.
 

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I've watched almost all the games, i don't need somebody else's opinion to tell me what's wrong. Yeah, the midfield is the worst that had in years, but Cristiano could be more involved in the build up of offense phases instead of focusing on finishing. Maybe he'd have 5 goals less but Juventus could have scored 10 more. The thing is, he can't do that anymore so most of the time he just looks for a shot, from any position, without much success (thus terminating the play). He could have tried to build a better synergy with Dybala but it never worked (also Sarri's fault obviously).

I'm not implying that Cristiano isn't a very good player, but this season he's just the best of a very bad bunch (even if Dybala had some really good games). He didn't do anything special, nor did Immobile. They just scored 30+ goals against the worst Serie A defenses i've seen in my lifetime with a lot of pens. The mere fact that Immobile could be best scorer ever in Serie A (considering the legendary players that used to play in Italy) is totally ludicrous.
He didn't do anything special

Any 35 years old can do so... oh... wait...
 

Oly Francis

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He didn't do anything special

Any 35 years old can do so... oh... wait...
You only read half of the debate, it all started because me and a couple of other members considered that what he did was amazing for a 35yo but pretty far from GOAT/amazing or ballon d'or level if you don't take his age into account.


As for the overall level in Serie A, a couple of teams have a very decent set of players on offense but defensively, its the worst i've seen in decades. It used to be the other way around, we're SO far from the catenaccio days.
 

11101

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Is the Serie A that much worse than the Prem, Bundesliga or La Liga this season to be considered a 2nd tier league? That seems a bit hyperbolic.

They have some good teams.

Yes. The top few teams are pretty good but the drop off after that to the rest of Serie A and beyond is very pronounced. By the time you get to the 3rd tier you are looking at borderline semi professional teams akin to the English 5th or 6th tiers.

Bundesliga and La Liga are equally one/two horse races but the average quality is much higher.


Still, what Ronaldo is doing there is pretty special. It's his 4th team as an adult and he's performed to the very top level in all of them. Whether he's better than Messi is debatable but Messi couldn't do what he is doing.
 

Black Adder

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The correct answer is because GOATs do GOAT things. He is a 1 of 1 in the sport for a reason.

Additionally without Ronaldo there is No way in hell this Juve team win the league this season.
Without him and his salary Juve would probably spend that money on some other player(s) who would in turn make them stronger than other teams, although with him or without him they're still best team in Italy. Cristiano was class this year, but Juve was winning league titles with lesser players against stronger teams so don't see why would they suddenly stop if it wasn't for him.

Also not having Cristiano didn't hurt Real in winning the league.
 

Sky1981

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You only read half of the debate, it all started because me and a couple of other members considered that what he did was amazing for a 35yo but pretty far from GOAT/amazing or ballon d'or level if you don't take his age into account.


As for the overall level in Serie A, a couple of teams have a very decent set of players on offense but defensively, its the worst i've seen in decades. It used to be the other way around, we're SO far from the catenaccio days.
You can't separate age though.

And even when you factored in he's 35 he is still perform even when compared to everyone else, it's not like "It's good enough he scores 10 goals in his 35". His age of 35 isn't being used as a detractors in any way. He was not given any handicapped at all.
 

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I find it how convenient it is for everyone to lay into the rest of the team for being crap but absolve him from any blame. He was supposed to take them to the next level but they look worse with him in the side. Not his fault. They knew the player they bought.
He also needs to make sacrifices for the team. I have watched them a few times this season. He has license to roam around the front three but the team cannot do any form of high pressure because he can't be expected to do it. So you've got this weak half press.
Sarri's hands are tied somewhat. Ronaldo needs a foul in the form of a striker to draw defenders out of the channel and he doesn't want to play CF.
I am not sure how they resolve it tactically. Their attack is very lethargic.
On the issue of goalscoring, I think it's silly to discount the penalties. Before Bruno we saw how lack of a decent taker cost us. 31 goals at 35 years of age is unbelievable at the highest level.
I just find the slaying of his teammates but he having no responsibility tiresome. I have watched some of their league games this season and imo, he bears some responsibility for their play.
Its similar to the barca fans that keep blaming everyone apart form Messi when things are not going well.
The thing with Juve is that I think they are actually stuck. You can't ask Ronnie to run around and you can't ask him to be a playmaker. Sarri has some thinking to do.
 
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Mr Smith

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Is the Serie A that much worse than the Prem, Bundesliga or La Liga this season to be considered a 2nd tier league? That seems a bit hyperbolic.

They have some good teams.
I don't think Serie A is a second teir league at all. Perhaps it was not so long ago; the quality dropped dramatically between the late 2000's and early 2010's, but I think it's at a high level again now. Probably the 3rd strongest in Europe behind the Premier League and La Liga. Juve may have reclaimed the title, but their reign is under threat from more areas than it's ever been.
 

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What even is this logic?

If Juve didn't get any penalties... they'd obviously have more open play goals. As would Ronaldo.
Most of the pens in Serie A are the result of the shambolic interpretation of the handball rule by Italian officials. Serie A’s penalties per game ratio is simply ludicrous – 0,49, which is basically a penalty every other day (obviously more for better teams). It is by far the highest coefficient in all of Europe – say, in Bundesliga it’s 0,25...

Cristiano is amazing, but Immobile’s record-breaking stats really show how the numbers of Serie A top scorers don’t really correlate with reality. It is a great season by him, and it’s insane that he is still just as motivated at his age as he was in his 20’s... but the amount of penalties that he has taken is not a result of his performance, or the performance of Juve as a team, it’s, first and foremost, incompetent refereeing.
 

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I find it how convenient it is for everyone to lay into the rest of the team for being crap but absolve him from any blame. He was supposed to take them to the next level but they look worse with him in the side. Not his fault. They knew the player they bought.
He also needs to make sacrifices for the team. I have watched them a few times this season. He has license to roam around the front three but the team cannot do any form of high pressure because he can't be expected to do it. So you've got this weak half press.
Sarri's hands are tied somewhat. Ronaldo needs a foul in the form of a striker to draw defenders out of the channel and he doesn't want to play CF.
I am not sure how they resolve it tactically. Their attack is very lethargic.
On the issue of goalscoring, I think it's silly to discount the penalties. Before Bruno we saw how lack of a decent taker cost us. 31 goals at 35 years of age is unbelievable at the highest level.
I just find the slaying of his teammates but he having no responsibility tiresome. I have watched some of their league games this season and imo, he bears some responsibility for their play.
Its similar to the barca fans that keep blaming everyone apart form Messi when things are not going well.
The thing with Juve is that I think they are actually stuck. You can't ask Ronnie to run around and you can't ask him to be a playmaker. Sarri has some thinking to do.
This is Juventus' biggest problem. I cannot understand why they signed Sarri knowing they had Cristiano Ronaldo in their squad. You cannot implement an effective positional play with him in your side. Juve at the moment are playing a weird hybrid of Max Allegri's football and Sarri's positional system and doing neither of them well. Juventus would have been better off with keeping Allegri or getting a different manager. The problem now is that Sarri had very little time to implement his football last season and due to the pandemic and if Juventus get far into the European Cup, he will have no time once again to implement it. I have Juventino friends that want Max Allegri back and I agree with them. It will be interesting to see what they do going forward.
 

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Without him and his salary Juve would probably spend that money on some other player(s) who would in turn make them stronger than other teams, although with him or without him they're still best team in Italy. Cristiano was class this year, but Juve was winning league titles with lesser players against stronger teams so don't see why would they suddenly stop if it wasn't for him.

Also not having Cristiano didn't hurt Real in winning the league.
Real won the weakest la liga in the past 10 years.

Juve were horrid this year and have conceded the most goals since the 10/11 season when they finished in 7th place.
 

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Real won the weakest la liga in the past 10 years.

Juve were horrid this year and have conceded the most goals since the 10/11 season when they finished in 7th place.
Real won it no matter how strong/weak league is and Juventus won it last 8 years running, both of this things happened.

What you're doing is imaganing scenarios which could've happened and you cannot know if that exact scenario would realise.
 

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I have no idea how people can think that the player that scores 31 goals in 33 games and is directly involved in 48% of the goals of the team is the problem.
Should we remove him and then base the team on the average bad players? It makes no sense does it?

And if you watch the games you can clearly see he is the best attacker Juventus has in in finishing, movement, quick combinations, objectiveness and decisions.
The only other players than can impact the Juve offensive game are Dybala with his dribbling and precise shot and Douglas Costa with his dribbling. Rabiot is also lately good at least making some runs from the midfield and giving some pace with ball (he didn't before).
Thing is, Dybala is irregular (still the second best Juventus attacker) and Costa takes a lot of bad decisions which makes his dribbles go nowhere.
There is no one else than can do a thing in attack. Watch the games, look how stale is Juventus attacking, no one moves, slow passes, no crossings, no dribbles, bad passes and mostly bad decisions.
They only score through set pieces or when Ronaldo/Dybala/Costa accelerate the game. A 35 year old Ronaldo is still the most dynamic player in the offensive process, that says something about the team.
 

Ronaldo's Mum Eh?

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At Age 35:⠀

• Zidane was retired⠀
• Ronaldo was retired
• Kaká was retired
• Ronaldinho had no team
• Xavi played for Al Sadd
• Henry played for New York RB
• Pelé played for NY Cosmos

• Cristiano ends the season with 31 goals in 33 games, 3rd top scorer in Europe.

GOAT
 

SilentStrike

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At Age 35:⠀

• Zidane was retired⠀
• Ronaldo was retired
• Kaká was retired
• Ronaldinho had no team
• Xavi played for Al Sadd
• Henry played for New York RB
• Pelé played for NY Cosmos

• Cristiano ends the season with 31 goals in 33 games, 3rd top scorer in Europe.

GOAT
Posts like these I expect to see on instagram, not here.
 

Mogget

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I find it how convenient it is for everyone to lay into the rest of the team for being crap but absolve him from any blame. He was supposed to take them to the next level but they look worse with him in the side. Not his fault. They knew the player they bought.
He also needs to make sacrifices for the team. I have watched them a few times this season. He has license to roam around the front three but the team cannot do any form of high pressure because he can't be expected to do it. So you've got this weak half press.
Sarri's hands are tied somewhat. Ronaldo needs a foul in the form of a striker to draw defenders out of the channel and he doesn't want to play CF.
I am not sure how they resolve it tactically. Their attack is very lethargic.
On the issue of goalscoring, I think it's silly to discount the penalties. Before Bruno we saw how lack of a decent taker cost us. 31 goals at 35 years of age is unbelievable at the highest level.
I just find the slaying of his teammates but he having no responsibility tiresome. I have watched some of their league games this season and imo, he bears some responsibility for their play.
Its similar to the barca fans that keep blaming everyone apart form Messi when things are not going well.
The thing with Juve is that I think they are actually stuck. You can't ask Ronnie to run around and you can't ask him to be a playmaker. Sarri has some thinking to do.
I remember @Peyroteo making some pretty detailed and lengthy posts about Barca being weaker with Messi in the team because they were effectively defending with one less player.

I wonder if he's going to go to the same effort in criticising Ronaldo, who has the same limitations, but offers even less creativity and build-up play.
 

Mogget

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At Age 35:⠀

• Zidane was retired⠀
• Ronaldo was retired
• Kaká was retired
• Ronaldinho had no team
• Xavi played for Al Sadd
• Henry played for New York RB
• Pelé played for NY Cosmos

• Cristiano ends the season with 31 goals in 33 games, 3rd top scorer in Europe.

GOAT
I like how the goalposts have moved yet again.

It used to be Ronaldo was the GOAT because he was the best goalscorer in the world. He's no longer the top goalscorer in the world, so now he's the GOAT because he's the best 35 year old in the world.
 

el3mel

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I like how the goalposts have moved yet again.

It used to be Ronaldo was the GOAT because he was the best goalscorer in the world. He's no longer the top goalscorer in the world, so now he's the GOAT because he's the best 35 year old in the world.
31 goals in 33 league games is a ridiculous record for a player that's not in his prime years any more.
 

Idxomer

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Ronaldo would kill to have a World Cup like Zidane with his impact just before his retirement at 34 and that includes the headbutt, perfect execution.

I'm also still waiting for the credit that Quagliarella, Luca Toni, and Di Natale deserve for what they did in their mid-30s at Seria A and they weren't even "physical specimens", we need more Italians here to celebrate them.
 

Mogget

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31 goals in 33 league games is a ridiculous record for a player that's not in his prime years any more.
A 30 year old Immobile scored 36. Last year a 36 year old Quagliarella was top scorer.

I'd say Serie A as a league is closer to Ligue 1 in quality than it is to the other top 3 European leagues.
 

el3mel

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A 30 year old Immobile scored 36. Last year a 36 year old Quagliarella was top scorer.

I'd say Serie A as a league is closer to Ligue 1 in quality than it is to the other top 3 European leagues.
Immobile's record is also a ridiculous one, but Ronaldo is 5 years older. While Quagliarella did really great getting the top scorer in such age, he scored 26 goals, 5 less than Ronaldo's current season.

While I think Serie A is ahead of Bundasliga in my own view, Ronaldo is really past the point of proving himself in a top league. If Ronaldo didn't score a single goal from now till he's retired, it won't affect his statue really.
 

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First and foremost this idea that Cristiano is a GOAT because he has proven himself in 3 different leagues is total bollocks.

He played for United, the best team in England during his time as demonstrated by the fact that United won the league several times after he left as long as Fergie was here.

He played for Real Madrid, one of the 3 best teams in Spain yet despite all the investment in top quality players along with Cristiano, they won the league only twice. They won the league without him too. The champions league argument on the surface of it looks good but Real rode ALOT of luck in winning those; typical when it comes to knock out competitions.

He now plays for Juventus, by far the most dominant team in Italy yet for the second season running he is outscored despite a ton of penalties.

Add to this, it is also absolute bollocks that he is now a goal poacher because he is slowing down; yes he is a goal poacher but he always has been for the majority of his career. Just watch all his goals at Madrid. How many were the typical tap in and penalties?. In addition, the quality of his allround play simply has not been to the level of players that he is compared to (just because of his stats).
 

Oly Francis

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Immobile's record is also a ridiculous one, but Ronaldo is 5 years older. While Quagliarella did really great getting the top scorer in such age, he scored 26 goals, 5 less than Ronaldo's current season.

While I think Serie A is ahead of Bundasliga in my own view, Ronaldo is really past the point of proving himself in a top league. If Ronaldo didn't score a single goal from now till he's retired, it won't affect his statue really.
The fact that Immobile is now the co-record owner in serie A while being an average to good player should tip you off...
 

Snow

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First and foremost this idea that Cristiano is a GOAT because he has proven himself in 3 different leagues is total bollocks.

He played for United, the best team in England during his time as demonstrated by the fact that United won the league several times after he left as long as Fergie was here.

He played for Real Madrid, one of the 3 best teams in Spain yet despite all the investment in top quality players along with Cristiano, they won the league only twice. They won the league without him too. The champions league argument on the surface of it looks good but Real rode ALOT of luck in winning those; typical when it comes to knock out competitions.

He now plays for Juventus, by far the most dominant team in Italy yet for the second season running he is outscored despite a ton of penalties.

Add to this, it is also absolute bollocks that he is now a goal poacher because he is slowing down; yes he is a goal poacher but he always has been for the majority of his career. Just watch all his goals at Madrid. How many were the typical tap in and penalties?. In addition, the quality of his allround play simply has not been to the level of players that he is compared to (just because of his stats).
I mean, I'd argue United were the best team in England because of him. In his first 3 seasons (when he was 18-21) United did not win the league and were not the best team in England. In his other 3 seasons they were. He also scored 63 goals in those seasons which was a huge step up from his total tally of 18 goals in the first 3 seasons.

I was not familiar with him being compared to other players than Messi. Who are these other players?
 

Bebestation

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First and foremost this idea that Cristiano is a GOAT because he has proven himself in 3 different leagues is total bollocks.

He played for United, the best team in England during his time as demonstrated by the fact that United won the league several times after he left as long as Fergie was here.

He played for Real Madrid, one of the 3 best teams in Spain yet despite all the investment in top quality players along with Cristiano, they won the league only twice. They won the league without him too. The champions league argument on the surface of it looks good but Real rode ALOT of luck in winning those; typical when it comes to knock out competitions.

He now plays for Juventus, by far the most dominant team in Italy yet for the second season running he is outscored despite a ton of penalties.

Add to this, it is also absolute bollocks that he is now a goal poacher because he is slowing down; yes he is a goal poacher but he always has been for the majority of his career. Just watch all his goals at Madrid. How many were the typical tap in and penalties?. In addition, the quality of his allround play simply has not been to the level of players that he is compared to (just because of his stats).
And so what? Messi only ever did stuff for Barcelona, arguably playing with the best players ever like Iniesta, busquets and Xavi, best managers ever like Pep, players like Suarez, Neymar, Puyol, David Villa, pique, Alves, Alba..

The guy literally needed cheap hormone injection to be good enough for professional football and then took the easy way out because of 'loyalty'. Atleast iniest and xavi dominated at every chance they got including euros and world cups but Messi? Absolute Nada and the guy is looking less useful at being the main man the further he gets away from xavi/Iniesta's era.

The guy is constantly hyped for being this 'magical player' which I agree that he is - but as much as that has been shown in the UCL it has been over hyped due to playing in one of the most lopsided leagues in world football. People lose there testosterone due to his goal vs getafe - like who?

Ronaldo was a magical player who ditched the magic early on like dribbling and skills to be a more solo minded player and the more he succeeded the more he wanted to try himself in different leagues who play at different tempos, different tactics, different environments, different physiques, different attacking or defensive mindset, different languages and so much more.

Why should C Ronaldo join Newcastle United to be valued as one of the best footballers in the world when Messi ends up doing the same repetitive crap for the same repetitive team against the same repetitive poor defenses only for people to go nuts when he takes on 3 defenders no one has heard about that would be lucky enough to be in the PL or even the physical defenders of Serie A. It dont matter - some people just need to see the magic & that's okay even if he looks like he isnt got the ability to be 'that player who is there when you need it the most' the more he plays away from the Xavi and iniesta era ( vs liverpool cl? Shocking).
 

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The fact that Immobile is now the co-record owner in serie A while being an average to good player should tip you off...
Again, Ronaldo is past the point of proving he can score crazy number of goals in a top league.
 

Oly Francis

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Again, Ronaldo is past the point of proving he can score crazy number of goals in a top league.
What the point of bringing up what he did in the past when assessing this season? We could also add that Immobile had 9 assists when Ronaldo only had 5. Also, he shot 25% less often. The truth is, i've never seen defenses in Serie A that bad in my lifetime + the insane amount of pens. So yeah, it's impressive for a 35yo, that's pretty much it.
 
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el3mel

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What the point of bringing up what he did in the past when assessing this season? We could also add that Immobile had 9 assists when Ronaldo only had 5. Also, he shot 25% less often. The truth is, i've never seen defenses in Serie A that bad in my lifetime + the insane amount of pens. So yeah, it's impressive for a 35yo, that's pretty much it.
The point is I don't get downplaying Serie A when we mention how scoring 31 in 33 is a great record for a 35 years old attacker. Ronaldo put similar number in England and Spain. Not like he's putting these now just because Serie A is terrible ( and it's not but let's get past this point ). Only 2 years ago when he was 33 he banged 44 in 44 matches and 26 in 27 league games for Real Madrid. That was his last season with them, only 2 years ago. These numbers are normal for Ronaldo.
 

bakalhau

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Ronaldo's 31 goals at 35 years old are on his lower end of his annual league goals throughout his career. It's like a lowish season for him.

For pretty much all other players but one, those same 31 goals tally would be one of that player's best seasons ever.

That sums up the difference between him and everyone else.
 

InterFan1998

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And so what? Messi only ever did stuff for Barcelona, arguably playing with the best players ever like Iniesta, busquets and Xavi, best managers ever like Pep, players like Suarez, Neymar, Puyol, David Villa, pique, Alves, Alba..

The guy literally needed cheap hormone injection to be good enough for professional football and then took the easy way out because of 'loyalty'. Atleast iniest and xavi dominated at every chance they got including euros and world cups but Messi? Absolute Nada and the guy is looking less useful at being the main man the further he gets away from xavi/Iniesta's era.

The guy is constantly hyped for being this 'magical player' which I agree that he is - but as much as that has been shown in the UCL it has been over hyped due to playing in one of the most lopsided leagues in world football. People lose there testosterone due to his goal vs getafe - like who?

Ronaldo was a magical player who ditched the magic early on like dribbling and skills to be a more solo minded player and the more he succeeded the more he wanted to try himself in different leagues who play at different tempos, different tactics, different environments, different physiques, different attacking or defensive mindset, different languages and so much more.

Why should C Ronaldo join Newcastle United to be valued as one of the best footballers in the world when Messi ends up doing the same repetitive crap for the same repetitive team against the same repetitive poor defenses only for people to go nuts when he takes on 3 defenders no one has heard about that would be lucky enough to be in the PL or even the physical defenders of Serie A. It dont matter - some people just need to see the magic & that's okay even if he looks like he isnt got the ability to be 'that player who is there when you need it the most' the more he plays away from the Xavi and iniesta era ( vs liverpool cl? Shocking).
Not sure I agree with the logic. I actually don't compare Messi to Ronaldo as they are different players, but I'm curious, what is your opinion on Paulo Maldini? Never left his comfort zone of Milan and he didnt win a World Cup (or Euro) with Italy and has always played alongside great defenders (Nesta, Baresi, Stam, etc.)

Do you think he's overrated because he never performed at the national stage as he did in the CL or Serie A? He also never left the comfort of the Italian league.
 

Morty_

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First and foremost this idea that Cristiano is a GOAT because he has proven himself in 3 different leagues is total bollocks.

He played for United, the best team in England during his time as demonstrated by the fact that United won the league several times after he left as long as Fergie was here.

He played for Real Madrid, one of the 3 best teams in Spain yet despite all the investment in top quality players along with Cristiano, they won the league only twice. They won the league without him too. The champions league argument on the surface of it looks good but Real rode ALOT of luck in winning those; typical when it comes to knock out competitions.

He now plays for Juventus, by far the most dominant team in Italy yet for the second season running he is outscored despite a ton of penalties.

Add to this, it is also absolute bollocks that he is now a goal poacher because he is slowing down; yes he is a goal poacher but he always has been for the majority of his career. Just watch all his goals at Madrid. How many were the typical tap in and penalties?. In addition, the quality of his allround play simply has not been to the level of players that he is compared to (just because of his stats).
I dont actually think that Ronaldo is the GOAT in terms of being a complete player, and i agree that playing for some of the best teams around isnt that much of a challenge, but i cant stand it when folks like you bring up context when it suits you, but ignore you when it dont.
"Only two league titles, and lots of luck in the cl lul" is not the full picture of the story, and you know it.
Well, if you want to look at points total average in the last decade, you will find RM very high up there, they should consider themselves unlucky to not have a couple more league titles at least, because against in a "normal" world, their domestic record is actually solid, world class even, they`ve just come up against one of the greatest teams of all time.
But you`d rather focus on all the "Luck" they got in the CL, of course.
 
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Bebestation

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Not sure I agree with the logic. I actually don't compare Messi to Ronaldo as they are different players, but I'm curious, what is your opinion on Paulo Maldini? Never left his comfort zone of Milan and he didnt win a World Cup (or Euro) with Italy and has always played alongside great defenders (Nesta, Baresi, Stam, etc.)

Do you think he's overrated because he never performed at the national stage as he did in the CL or Serie A? He also never left the comfort of the Italian league.
Maldini is one of my favourite players and he arguably played in the toughest period of football I saw which included the best defenders and the best attackers all in one league even if the serie A turned out to be a bit of a dodgy place later on. I've got no issues with loyalty & it doesnt make Messi lower down than the second best attacker I've seen in terms of ability - but for someone who values mental ability as much or even more than physical ability - Ronaldo is just on a different level in that category and is a wonder to study than just the skill of a player.

The fact that he went to arguably the three most famous leagues to try himself out is amazing. Ronaldo couldn't change time and be born early for the 80's or 90s Serie A - Even if the league wasnt competitive as it once was, Ronaldo went to all 3 to try and make a statement.

I dont say a legend needs to move to different leagues to be a legend - but if they did then that's a further positive in their already wonderful career.
 
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