Critique this 11

[Oo0AahCantona]

https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/5f958343573afb0547a80e92

I look at that team or minor variants of it, ie Greenword for one of the forwards, you could slot in Mctomminay at the base, mata for dvb etc. Surely that is a very good side and we still have plenty of depth? i dont understand why our benches often look stronger than our first 11.

I actually think we have an excellent squad we just haven't found a way to actually use our best players together. you can also bring in an extra defensive midfielder very easily if you need to play more defensively.

 

[VorZakone]

I think plenty of people would be happy to try out a diamond midfield.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Might not fit with how ole wants to play is my main critique... It would just be a coincidence if it did

 

[JohnnyLaw]

The most common counter to the diamond formation I normally see is that we don’t have the fullbacks to make it work.

 

[Borys]

Big question mark over van de Beek. If he's an attacking midfielder by default (certainly looks like it), he'll struggle defensively in midfield. So if we play both him and Pogba ahead of Fred, opposition will cut through us easily.

If we think Telles is fit to hold his own as left back then why not give it a try. VdB will work just fine with Wan Bissaka I think.

Would rather play 3 at the back with Maguire stepping into midfield, and we can play more combinations in the middle.

 

[el3mel]

Seems like a forced formation just to put Pogba in somehow while keeping an actual midfield around.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

The most common counter to the diamond formation I normally see is that we don’t have the fullbacks to make it work.

I agree on the righthand side, but that left looks deadly. Telles/pogba/rashford

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

Seems like a forced formation just to put Pogba in somehow while keeping an actual midfield around.

Our midfield is the strongest area of our squad, should we not be exploiting that?

 

[Andersonson]

Seems like a forced formation just to put Pogba in somehow while keeping an actual midfield around.

Spot on. His weaknessess would be more visible even imo

 

[Berbasbullet]

Fred’s first touch gives me the heeby jeebys for that role.

 

[Stretender]

Seems like a forced formation just to put Pogba in somehow while keeping an actual midfield around.

The Pogba fan club is the funniest thing about the current Manchester United.

They have their biggest mouthpiece masquerading as a pundit on Skysports. Everytime his countryman is on the bench, he says some crazy nonsense about the team.

 

[Zen86]

Personally I think we would get destroyed with that formation, particularly down the wings. Our defence would be overrun, like in the first few games this season.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Far too attacking and we dont have the defence to play it. AWB is too average going forward and mcguire is too slow. Plus fred can't be the only DM.

We should just play 352 going forward as it generally works amd is the best fit for our players.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/5f958343573afb0547a80e92

Disappointed OP not posting the pic here.

Rashford --- Cavani/Martial
Bruno
Pogba --- DVB
Fred
Telles --- Lindelof --- Maguire --- AWB
De Gea​

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

Disappointed OP not posting the pic here.

Rashford --- Cavani/Martial
Bruno
Pogba --- DVB
Fred
Telles --- Lindelof --- Maguire --- AWB
De Gea​

Apologies I had a brain fart and didnt know how to directly link it.

 

[Bubz27]

Fred takes too many touches and that's costly as the deepest lying midfielder. I'd prefer an option here that can drop in as a CB and make Telles and AWB push on as wingbacks, which essentially turns it into a 3-5-2. But any good manager will say formations ebb and flow throughout a game anyway.

That CB pairing never fills me with confidence.

I'm not overly worried about the width. Rashford and Martial can and will split with Bruno pushing forward. VDB has the legs to drift wider too, and Pogba will like the space from the left too.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Seems like a forced formation just to put Pogba in somehow while keeping an actual midfield around.

Spot on. His weaknessess would be more visible even imo

Of that starting 11 your main worry is Pogba

Forget the fact AWB would be useless in attack, Maguire & Lindelof are so sh*te they need 2 DMs to shield them, DVdB has litterally played a fraction of this seasons minutes but that’s not shoehorning him , Fred is a runner but has no place as a solo DM. . .

This place is a full on witch-hunt when it comes to no.6; he certainly isn’t the answer long term but that 11 is full of holes & Pogba is far from the weak spot in it.

 

[BAMSOLA]

Mctominay still belongs in our best 11, not every player has to be an excellent progressive passer, so I'd prefer him at the base of that midfield instead of Fred. There is also the argument that on current form fred should be getting the starts that Pogba would normally get on form however as a best 11 it's not bad and I've been arguing that we are wasting our time with 1 striker formations when our best forwards are both suited to drifting into the channels so often.

We should be playing two striker formations with split strikers.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Right idea, but poor placements and need slight adjustments.

Good?
Fully make use of our strong midfield depth.

Bad?
1. Right width lacking.
2. Defensively most likely will be exposed.
3. Three or four placements of players are a bit off.

So how to make it better?
For me, if we're still using the same diamond system, it should be something like this.

Martial/MG/Cavani --- Rashford_______
Bruno
______Fred --- Pogba/DVB
Matic/McT
Telles --- Maguire --- Lindelof --- AWB
De Gea
​

Easy Fixes?
1A) Rashford on Rigth forward role will provide the right width which AWB couldn't. I always felt Rashford is far better on the right than his favored left wing position, honestly I don't think he's improving much anymore from the LW position, should play more on the RW now to expand his overall abilities.
1B) Pogba and VDB will play the "mezzala" role, half winger i.e. midfield + winger hybrid role. Either one of them will provide additional right width.

2A) Play both Fred and McT to stabilize our defense best and gain control in midfield. Fred especially on the left will support Telles defensively as does covering the spaces behind when he overlaps.
2B) AWB will be the more defensive FB to help defense, with Telles the more attacking FB. Importantly, especially if Pogba is playing RCM, AWB will cover his defensive weaknesses.

3A) Switch Mag and Lind around, so AWB can cover Lind's defensive frailties better.
3B) Rashford <-> Cavani/Martial. If Martial is playing, he can then freely drift to left wing at times. If Cavani playing, he'll stay more centrally waiting for crossings from Telles and our right width. If Greenwood is playing, he'll offer that shootings threats and left width crossings.
3C) The midfielders placements as shown above, each with specific roles.

• CAM - main playmaker, goals & assists.​
• RCM - right width, 2nd playmaker, build-up & mini atk/def supports.​
• LCM - defense, cover, build-up, ball winning, mini atk support & ball retention.​
• CDM - defense, cover, build-up, ball winning & ball retention.​

IMO that'll be the best balance for this system. It does need specific guidelines aka good coaching/instructions from the manager/coaches so the midfield won't get in each other's ways.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Apologies I had a brain fart and didnt know how to directly link it.

For buildlineup, I usually post it to imgur first, then link it and post it here.

Actually I tried that for your lineup but couldn't download nor "save as" the image.
I could just screenshot or "screen snip" it but feeling so lazy right now cheers mate.

 

[youmeletsfly]

The left side with Telles and Pogs will get murdered.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I remember Zidane's Madrid using this formation, and it worked very well. I do like the formation, and if we need to use a system that will allow us to fit Pogba and VdB in, then this is certainly one of the more suitable ones.

Based on the team you have posted, I'd say:

- Bruno and VdB. I'd change Bruno and VdB. Feel VdB is better suited to that false 9 role, if you like. He's more of a link player, whereas Bruno is more all-rounded and more suited to the 8 role, especially in a three.

- Our full-backs could potentially struggle. In such a narrow system, emphasis would be on our full-backs to provide width. Not just that, but provide quality, which our full-backs are not exactly renowned for their great attacking input. That being said, our side midfielders (in your case Pogba and VdB) could almost act like wingers and create overloads out wide, thus putting less attacking emphasis on our full backs.

We don't see it as much now, but in Pep's 433 system, their full backs used to tuck in, with the side midfielders almost playing as inside forwards, which allowed them to dominate and create overloads in those wide areas. This is certainly something we could do.

- Fred as a number 6. I found it interesting that Ole opted to put McTominay as the 6 against PSG when he went with a diamond, especially when he has previously opted for Fred there. Fred, more often than not, is assured on the ball and when he's in full flow, he's good at beating the press, but is prone to making some sloppy mistakes, which could be a problem in that position.

- The front two. Effectively, this is a 433 with a false 9. It's basically what Liverpool have used over the last few years, and what Jose has gone with of late, with Kane as a false 9 and Son and Moura/Bale/Bergwijn as wide forwards. Because of this, you'd probably want a left-footed player on the right, allowing them to tuck in and shoot. Greenwood would be a great option.

Other than that, and that's me being really pedantic, I feel it would work really well. Possibly put McTominay in for Vdb for the so-called 'tougher' games, but I'd like to see Ole go for it.

 

[Amadaeus]

No MMM no party.
Plus, I m not sure about telles at lb. haven’t seen enough of him there. Fred as well in cdm.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Same as against PSG. No point in hiding that we rely on individual moments to create and score, and having Bruno, Rashford, Martial and Telles would be enough to create chances, while having 2 of Fred/McT/Matic and 3 centrebacks + AWB would be enough to stay solid defensively, even when countered against. It ain't pretty but it will work.

Putting more numbers in attack would increase our likelyhood to score, but not more than the increased likelyhood of conceeding.
For variations we could replace either Rashford or Martial for VDB/Pogba.

 

[MZX7]

Right idea, but poor placements and need slight adjustments.

Good?
Fully make use of our strong midfield depth.

Bad?
1. Right width lacking.
2. Defensively most likely will be exposed.
3. Three or four placements of players are a bit off.

So how to make it better?
For me, if we're still using the same diamond system, it should be something like this.

Martial/MG/Cavani --- Rashford_______
Bruno
______Fred --- Pogba/DVB
Matic/McT
Telles --- Maguire --- Lindelof --- AWB
De Gea
​

Easy Fixes?
1A) Rashford on Rigth forward role will provide the right width which AWB couldn't. I always felt Rashford is far better on the right than his favored left wing position, honestly I don't think he's improving much anymore from the LW position, should play more on the RW now to expand his overall abilities.
1B) Pogba and VDB will play the "mezzala" role, half winger i.e. midfield + winger hybrid role. Either one of them will provide additional right width.

2A) Play both Fred and McT to stabilize our defense best and gain control in midfield. Fred especially on the left will support Telles defensively as does covering the spaces behind when he overlaps.
2B) AWB will be the more defensive FB to help defense, with Telles the more attacking FB. Importantly, especially if Pogba is playing RCM, AWB will cover his defensive weaknesses.

3A) Switch Mag and Lind around, so AWB can cover Lind's defensive frailties better.
3B) Rashford <-> Cavani/Martial. If Martial is playing, he can then freely drift to left wing at times. If Cavani playing, he'll stay more centrally waiting for crossings from Telles and our right width. If Greenwood is playing, he'll offer that shootings threats and left width crossings.
3C) The midfielders placements as shown above, each with specific roles.

• CAM - main playmaker, goals & assists.​
• RCM - right width, 2nd playmaker, build-up & mini atk/def supports.​
• LCM - defense, cover, build-up, ball winning, mini atk support & ball retention.​
• CDM - defense, cover, build-up, ball winning & ball retention.​

IMO that'll be the best balance for this system. It does need specific guidelines aka good coaching/instructions from the manager/coaches so the midfield won't get in each other's ways.

So, Telles attacks while Maguire is left on his own to cover the left side of our defense? Maguire? Alone? All the goals will be coming in from the left side then.

Agree with the rest of it.

 

[Bwuk]

Fred can’t play #6. Hes a box to box player.

 

[lysglimt]

The strange thing is - I have a problem creating our strongest 11 because there are so many good options now - when was that last a problem ?

 

[golden_blunder]

“Shite”

 

[Ekeke]

Weak in the air and not enough midfield cover to help Lindelof. You could drop DVB back and ask him to play as the 2nd DM though

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/5f958343573afb0547a80e92

I look at that team or minor variants of it, ie Greenword for one of the forwards, you could slot in Mctomminay at the base, mata for dvb etc. Surely that is a very good side and we still have plenty of depth? i dont understand why our benches often look stronger than our first 11.

I actually think we have an excellent squad we just haven't found a way to actually use our best players together. you can also bring in an extra defensive midfielder very easily if you need to play more defensively.

Yeah I mean that’s basically the lineup I would like to see. Although Martial should be the automatic starter not Rashford.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Weak in the air and not enough midfield cover to help Lindelof. You could drop DVB back and ask him to play as the 2nd DM though

The point is you would have 3 midfielders all asked to do defensive work. And being weak in the air isn’t really true?

 

[Ekeke]

The point is you would have 3 midfielders all asked to do defensive work. And being weak in the air isn’t really true?

You have Fred as the deepest midfielder in front of Lindelof. McTominay is the one who helps out of the two in the air, or Matic when he plays. Fred cannot and does not do that. So only Maguire would be good at dealing with the ball in the air and set pieces.

 

[pocco]

Fred can't cover the defence on his own and I suspect runners from midfield would cause us problems.

Fullbacks will be exposed to 2 v 1s.

With such little cover from midfield, I'd prefer more pace and mobility at CB. I can see our problems defensively being exasperated with this system.

I don't think Wan Bissaka can provide enough threat down the right to balance that attack. Their fullback will be encouraged to come forward too because of this.

Cavani isn't flexible enough to provide width in certain phases of play. I think you need that from your forwards now and then if you play this sort of midfield.

I actually don't think a diamond will work and I'd hate to sacrifice the width we do have. The midfield isn't that balanced, it's just got our 3 big name attacking midfield players in there plus Fred. Compare it to Juve, who once had Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio and Pogba. That's a far more balanced midfield, as an example.

 

[Bebestation]

Rashford ----'Greenwood
Martial(VDB)
Pogba(VDB) ---- Bruno(Fred)
Mctomminay(Fred)
Shaw(Telles)-Maguire- Lindelof-Wan Bissaka
De Gea
​

In my opinion we should be playing this as a diamond because it allows us to have a false 9 at the top of the diamond in either Martial or VDB whilst having a 'False CB' on the bottom of the diamond.

This allows us to be flexible with what we do and play a 352,

Maguire- Mctomminay- Lindelof
​

Or play a 433,

Rashford -Martial -Greenwood
Pogba - Bruno
Mctomminay
​

Or play a 4222

Rashford - Greenwood
VDB - Bruno
Pogba - Mctomminay
​

Or a 4231,

Martial
Rashford-Bruno-Greenwood
Pogba - Mctomminay
​

This isnt me addressing whether players fit the formation best (like Pogba in a 4231 would have to be subbed for Fred); but what it shows is how having a player in the system that can play as a CDM and drop in to a back 3 or having a ST that can drop in to CAM roles and vice versa allows us to be flexible with our tactical changes during a match.

​

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

Our midfield is the strongest area of our squad, should we not be exploiting that?

I think you have a bias towards attacking players, rather than balance. More attacking, or being a better dribbler doesn't mean the player is better.

I like two striker systems, so I'd be happy to see us playind a diamond 4-4-2 or a variation of 3-5-2.

These centerbacks are slow, if they stay deep you'll have a big space between midfieldand defense that Fred won't be able to cover alone, and if they push up they will get caught out on the counter.

 

[Denis79]

Our defence won't hold without 2 midfielders working their ass off to help defend.

 

[archiebald]

If we get a proper holding midfielder for the #6 role then maybe this works.

 

[P-Nut]

352/41212 with McTominay as the deepest midfielder. He plays at the back for Scotland and it would make our formation flow depending on the game.

 

[bond19821982]

Poor Fred.

If we are playing a diamond, we obviously need 2 defensive minded midfielders else diamond wouldn't work. Take any succesful diamond formations and you would see that.

Bring in Scot or Matic for DVB and it would work. Also Williams for AWB.

 

[Charlie Foley]

https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/5f958343573afb0547a80e92

I look at that team or minor variants of it, ie Greenword for one of the forwards, you could slot in Mctomminay at the base, mata for dvb etc. Surely that is a very good side and we still have plenty of depth? i dont understand why our benches often look stronger than our first 11.

I actually think we have an excellent squad we just haven't found a way to actually use our best players together. you can also bring in an extra defensive midfielder very easily if you need to play more defensively.

Not sure I want Fred at the base of midfield by himself, also Cavani/Martial are 2 very different players, so I’m not sure how you want the player in that role to play in this formation