Crossing…

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
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We currently have a 6’5 centre forward, and one who isn’t just tall for nothing - but is actually very strong in the air. It seems at the moment that we are playing two left-footed players on the right, and two right-footed players on the left. As a result, we’re not a team that is getting a good supply of early, quality crosses into the box.

Because of this, I think we are not maximising our weaponry in terms of getting headed opportunities for Sesko. Do you guys think this is something we need to look at? There’s been a lot of talk about how Semenyo would be a dream target to play LWB for us, but for me - the next signing there absolutely needs to be left-footed and able to cross a ball.
 
It had crossed my mind. I don't know if we don't cross because Amad and Mbeumo are far more effective just running at people, but Dorgu could definitely use Cunha as a decoy and whip a ball in every now and then. But it's only been a handful of games with Sesko in the team, and Dalot has played there the last 2. Maybe it's something we'll see down the line.

Part of me wonders if when Martinez comes back whether we might try Shaw there, as he can whip in a cross. But I think it might be asking a bit much of his fragile legs.
 
Sesko should in theory be scoring a lot of headed goals. But he's not really been dangerous so far on any of our corners. I feel he's getting used to the physicality that's allowed in the English game and at some point when he cracks the code he'll start attacking the ball from those dead ball situations. But as of now -- there's no evidence that he's any more dangerous than say Harry Maguire or De Ligt.

As far as crossing from open play I think Mbeumo has shown he can deliver a very good cross into the box. But he tends to cut inside now with Amad providing the run down the sideline to open a goal scoring opportunity. I think Amorim and the analytics team have determined the cross into the box for Sesko is a lower percentage conversion option. So the team seems to favor Mbeumo or Cunha shooting from just outside the box.With Sesko responsible for pulling defenders to the side with his clever movement.

I suspect if Sesko becomes more dominant from our corners and starts getting opportunities via his head that will prompt the wingbacks and inside 10's to look for him more on the crosses.

Right now Sesko is far more dangerous with his flick on's from long balls and short inter plays to release the 10's. He's not the focal point of our attacking given how raw his skills still are when it comes to playing striker in the premiere league.
 
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I don't know why we can't try Amad on the left. I think him and Cunha are made for each other.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
I don't know why we can't try Amad on the left. I think him and Cunha are made for each other.
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Genuinely why on earth would you want to change anything about the right hand side of our team, it's by far and away the best thing about our team.
 
Lash said:
Genuinely why on earth would you want to change anything about the right hand side of our team, it's by far and away the best thing about our team.
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Balance and to get more from Sesko.

I see your point, if it ain't broke and all that, but I am confused about why we have not really tried it since we bought Cunha.

We should give it a go before deciding which other players to bring in. I like the idea of overlapping wing backs crossing with their preferred foot for a quick six foot five basketball jumping centre forward who can score with his head.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Balance and to get more from Sesko.

I see your point, if it ain't broke and all that, but I am confused about why we have not really tried it since we bought Cunha.

We should give it a go before deciding which other players to bring in. I like the idea of overlapping wing backs crossing with their preferred foot for a quick six foot five basketball jumping centre forward who can score with his head.
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I think Sesko is doing OK though and I like that he's not the main focus of the attack as it takes the pressure of him, so he doesn't have to go the way of Hojlund. He'll continue to improve within the setup we currently have, I'm not sure changing our most effective area of the pitch is a wise move. It's a bit more of a case of if it ain't broke, it's more like why would change a good thing?

I think we should definitely get that on the left, but that has to be from Dorgu or the other left wing back options.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
I don't know why we can't try Amad on the left. I think him and Cunha are made for each other.
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Amad is really bad at crossing the ball and he's been very awkward whenever played on the left. We need to get Mbeumo crossing the ball more though, he's a very good crosser but has been used more tucking inside as a goal threat so far.

Agree with rozay that we need a proper left footed wing back who can focus on holding width and shipping crosses in. It's a huge part of the game that we don't look to do ever.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
I don't know why we can't try Amad on the left. I think him and Cunha are made for each other.
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Why? Amad and Mbeumo are developing a very good connection -- it makes no sense to disrupt that.

The aim should be to get Dorgu and Dalot to develop a similar thing with Cunha till such time we find a better long term starting left wing back.
 
I don't think left footed players on the right/right footed players on the left is an excuse for crossing the ball as little as we do. There is such thing an inswinging cross, plenty of goals are scored from them. We can also increase the instances where we roll the ball back to Bruno/Casemiro in the right channel and they deliver a first time outswinger.
 
My feeling is that Amorim doesn't like to attack via crosses and prefers the WBs or AMs dribble into the box and then pick out a teammate through a 5-10 yard pass.

I saw that when Amass was playing last year (who has a good cross on him), he would literally pause against his instincts and then play the ball back rather than trying to cross.
 
Pretty sure it's a deliberate strategy to not put too many crosses into the box. And statistically it's probably for a good reason. A vast majority of crosses end up with lost possession.
 
ifightdragons said:
Pretty sure it's a deliberate strategy to not put too many crosses into the box. And statistically it's probably for a good reason. A vast majority of crosses end up with lost possession.
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Other clubs tend to cross the ball and statistically don't end up with a negative goal difference season after season.
 
Rozay said:
We currently have a 6’5 centre forward, and one who isn’t just tall for nothing - but is actually very strong in the air. It seems at the moment that we are playing two left-footed players on the right, and two right-footed players on the left. As a result, we’re not a team that is getting a good supply of early, quality crosses into the box.

Because of this, I think we are not maximising our weaponry in terms of getting headed opportunities for Sesko. Do you guys think this is something we need to look at? There’s been a lot of talk about how Semenyo would be a dream target to play LWB for us, but for me - the next signing there absolutely needs to be left-footed and able to cross a ball.
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Yeah this bugs me.

I do wonder as above if it's intentional tactically, though I don't know the underlying reason or data as to why that would be. "Playing the percentages" as the phrase goes perhaps - whatever those percentages might be?...

Dorgu time and again turns down good opportunities to cross the ball in to the box, instead turning back and playing a short pass in-field.

Amad and Mbeumo are also not going to produce many crosses either. Even though Mbeumo is a decent crosser of the ball, even with in-swinging crosses as he showed with some assists for Wissa at Brentford, he's typically so central and high up the pitch at United that the opportunities aren't really there for someone in his role. The crossing chances typically fall to the wing-backs.
 
https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/leagues/47/stats/season/27110/teams/accurate_cross_team

We're 5th in the league for crosses attempted per game with a 32.9% completion rate (which is 2nd only to Leeds).

Crossing the ball hasn't been a reliable way of scoring a goal for the last 10 years - at least for teams aiming to score 70+ goals. Players just don't score that many headed goals, football fans are hung up on something that's been tactically redundant for years. Its a last resort for an attack that's been funnelled out wide or a way to mix things up, but 99% of PL defenders will back themselves to defend balls pumped into the box regardless of who's attacking them.
 
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greater wall said:
Other clubs tend to cross the ball and statistically don't end up with a negative goal difference season after season.
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This.

Their is actually just one team in the PL with more successfull crosses than Man Utd this season; Wolves. It is not a great strategy. It is difficult to execute with pression for attacking teams, and very easy to defend against for defending team.

Try finding a title winning team were a big share of their attack relied on crosses for a big striker to head.
 
Skills said:
https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/leagues/47/stats/season/27110/teams/accurate_cross_team

We're 5th in the league for crosses attempted per game with a 32.9% completion rate (which is 2nd only to Leeds).

Crossing the ball hasn't been a reliable way of scoring a goal for the last 10 years - at least for teams aiming to score 70+ goals. Players just don't score that many headed goals, football fans are hung up on something that's been tactically redundant for years. Its a last resort for an attack that's been funnelled out wide or a way to mix things up, but 99% of PL defenders will back themselves to defend balls pumped into the box regardless of who's attacking them.
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We conceded against city from a cross and headed in by Foden. Maguire scored against Liverpool from a cross. It is a potent way of scoring. It doesn't just have to be a headed goal. Mount scored from an Mbeumo cross by controlling first and then shooting with the other foot.
 
andersj said:
This.

Their is actually just one team in the PL with more successfull crosses than Man Utd this season; Wolves. It is not a great strategy. It is difficult to execute with pression for attacking teams, and very easy to defend against for defending team.

Try finding a title winning team were a big share of their attack relied on crosses for a big striker to head.
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I’ve just watched Newcastle cross the ball for there 6’6 striker to head the ball in (not for the first time this season).

As always, we talk in extremes here. Nobody has suggested that the majority of our attacks should come from crosses. I am saying that we are not set up for this to be one of our weapons of note.

I don’t think it’s particularly controversial as such. Sesko is good in the air. He wins a lot of headers in various contexts in the game, so I think it’s fair that he will win some in the box if given the opportunity. The question is about doing it well. Crossing done poorly to strikers who do not thrive of them isn’t wise. A striker who does will of course benefit from a supply of good crosses. Chris Wood seems to enjoy them, for example. I think it would be wasteful to not give him some to attack.
 
When we put in actual crosses, they tend to be really poor. I come away from many of our games wondering how professional footballers can't cross a ball properly. Head scratcher.
 
ForeverRed1 said:
Where does mbuemo play?
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Where he is now but with a right footed right wing back playing where Amad is playing.

Its not radical to think that having your wide players crossing with their best foot might increase the likelihood they cross the ball and that those crosses might be better timed and more accurate. Might even improve the interplay between the wing backs and the number 10's and improve the service to the center forward.

I think its worth a try at some point in the future but others disagree.

That is football.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
I don't know why we can't try Amad on the left. I think him and Cunha are made for each other.
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Why not try Hazard on the right, Salah on the left, Bernado Silva on the left, Mata on the left, Saka on the left, Mahrez on the left? Because it wouldn't get the best out of them in the slightest.

Particularly players who are not physically gifted in terms of raw pace but have quick change of direction and close control are just much better dribbling and linking up play playing as inverted wide players. Asking Amad to knock the ball past the full back on the outside on the left wing and beat them for pace to get a cross in is just not his game.

The couple of games Amad was forced to play as a left 10 recently he looked completely out of place.
 
Dominos said:
Why not try Hazard on the right, Salah on the left, Bernado Silva on the left, Mata on the left, Saka on the left, Mahrez on the left? Because it wouldn't get the best out of them in the slightest.

Particularly players who are not physically gifted in terms of raw pace but have quick change of direction and close control are just much better dribbling and linking up play playing as inverted wide players. Asking Amad to knock the ball past the full back on the outside on the left wing and beat them for pace to get a cross in is just not his game.

The couple of games Amad was forced to play as a left 10 recently he looked completely out of place.
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Amad plays right wing back for us right now and apparently you are all for that continuing?

My suggestion is, given he is left footed, we should try him in exactly the same position but playing on the left side.

Somehow you have taken that to mean, Christ knows why, I have invented a time machine.

Why a left footed player can't play on the left side, like you know, most left footed players play without changing everything about how he plays I don't know.

If he was playing the right number 10 and cutting in or as a winger doing the same then I could see your point but he isn't, Mbeuno is playing that role as is Cunha in the other side.

I would also point out that because we play him on the right it means we play Dalot on the left, so there is a very good reason to at some point in the future try the very obvious switch.

It is not crazy idea.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Amad plays right wing back for us right now and apparently you are all for that continuing?

My suggestion is, given he is left footed, we should try him in exactly the same position but playing on the left side.

Somehow you have taken that to mean, Christ knows why, I have invented a time machine.

Why a left footed player can't play on the left side, like you know, most left footed players play without changing everything about how he plays I don't know.

If he was playing the right number 10 and cutting in or as a winger doing the same then I could see your point but he isn't, Mbeuno is playing that role as is Cunha in the other side.

I would also point out that because we play him on the right it means we play Dalot on the left, so there is a very good reason to at some point in the future try the very obvious switch.

It is not crazy idea.
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You didn't address the most salient point he made which was that Amad played two games at left 10 while Cunha was out (Chelsea and City) and looked absolutely horrible. His entire skillset is built around cutting inside. He's a poor crosser on the few occasions he does put them in. There is no way we should take him out of a position where he's thriving just to beef up the left side.
 
I think with Amad doing what he does on the right, we should definitely have an overlapping leftie on the left side who can keep width and cross the ball. If nothing else, it helps is to vary our attacks. Playing with players on either side that want to come inside and play the same sort of game isn’t giving opposition different problems to worry about.

A powerful vertical player on the left would be great. Basically Dorgu, but with footballing ability. I’m sure he’s being paid a fortune in Turkey - but Leroy Sané would be great for the role. Even as a winger, he plays better on the left anyway. I think Dwight McNeil could be a good option too, he has a great cross on him and can run the line.
 
ValenciasDrilledCrosses said:
You didn't address the most salient point he made which was that Amad played two games at left 10 while Cunha was out (Chelsea and City) and looked absolutely horrible. His entire skillset is built around cutting inside. He's a poor crosser on the few occasions he does put them in. There is no way we should take him out of a position where he's thriving just to beef up the left side.
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I am not suggesting we try him at left 10 so its irrelevant, and also a small sample size and were those games even with Cunha playing and Seko as 9 ?

If you can explain why in principle he can be immoveable good at right wing back with a right 10 who is left footed but so predictably bad at left wing back with a left 10 who is right footed, then I am all ears. So obvious. it isn't worth even trying him there given the left wing back is a wrong footed Dalot? Sorry I don't buy it.

I am saying that whatever he is doing on right wing as a right wing back he could be as good if not better for the team on the left wing as a left wing back given he is left footed.

I might be wrong but I think we should try it before bringing in even more left wing backs.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Amad plays right wing back for us right now and apparently you are all for that continuing?

My suggestion is, given he is left footed, we should try him in exactly the same position but playing on the left side.

Somehow you have taken that to mean, Christ knows why, I have invented a time machine.

Why a left footed player can't play on the left side, like you know, most left footed players play without changing everything about how he plays I don't know.

If he was playing the right number 10 and cutting in or as a winger doing the same then I could see your point but he isn't, Mbeuno is playing that role as is Cunha in the other side.

I would also point out that because we play him on the right it means we play Dalot on the left, so there is a very good reason to at some point in the future try the very obvious switch.

It is not crazy idea.
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I don't like the system we play at all (despite the 3 game win streak). Amad is a right winger in a 4231/433, but we don't play that, and we've shafted him really by signing Mbeumo who's a better player right now who plays his position.

If we're playing Amad in this system, it should be RWB or right sided 10. The fact he's playing wing back and not "winger" doesn't change the fact he's just much more effective on the right than the left. Whether it's wing back or winger, his job is still essentially to receive the ball wide and run at the opposition full back, and link play. He'll do that better at RWB/RW than he will do at LWB/LW.

It's also not a crazy idea to stick with him at RWB. If Dorgu isn't good enough, we need to sign a better player at LWB.
 
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If Amad or Mbuemo had to switch to the left I feel Mbuemo is far more suited to it. Which would allow Amad on the right. Obviously happy with that's happening now but if Cunha was out of the team, it's an option.

Even though Dorgu isn't great, I'd still rather him than Dalot because I think Dalot is very poor, Dorgu is quick/left footed, could provide better crosses and gives more balance to the side.
 
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