Gaming Cyberpunk 2077 (PC, PS4, Xbox One, Stadia) | Coming back to PSN 21st June

Vidic_In_Moscow

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I'm glad they've been embarrassed in this way. Back in the days of PS1 and PS2 nobody would even consider releasing a game that hadn't been tested every which way. Companies have got way too comfortable being able to patch away their own sloppiness if they can even be bothered to. Hopefully it serves as a good warning to other companies. Fortunately it happened to this weird ass game for nerds and not something actually good.
 

One Night Only

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This game reminds me of Haze from PS3. Before the console came out it was hyped to be the next big thing. Pure floppage.
It was supposed to be the next Halo Killer and spiritual sequel to timesplitters. @esmufc07 fell for the hype.
I do remember the hype around Haze!
I remember quite enjoying Haze! Seems to get a lot of hate for not doing much wrong. I wouldn't say it was a game I followed / was hyped for iirc though. Just a random pickup.
 

Lord Megadrive

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Definitely. Maybe the developers wanted to but the publisher said no?
I think in this case they were damned if the do and damned if they don’t? I reckon a lot of the people moaning about performance issues were also the ones screaming on Twitter about it being delayed again. It’s a sad state of affairs really.
 

Bojan11

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I think in this case they were damned if the do and damned if they don’t? I reckon a lot of the people moaning about performance issues were also the ones screaming on Twitter about it being delayed again. It’s a sad state of affairs really.
They delayed it in November and they could have extended it to 2021 rather than December. Surely the management and developers knew 3 weeks wouldn’t be enough to get it ready?

Just a crazy situation. When they delayed it earlier in the year, I assumed they just had a few minor bugs and extra polishing to do.

I also doubt people would have moaned about the delays as much as the game they released. They delayed it three times previously and the hype didn’t go down.
 

Shane88

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They delayed it in November and they could have extended it to 2021 rather than December. Surely the management and developers knew 3 weeks wouldn’t be enough to get it ready?

Just a crazy situation. When they delayed it earlier in the year, I assumed they just had a few minor bugs and extra polishing to do.

I also doubt people would have moaned about the delays as much as the game they released. They delayed it three times previously and the hype didn’t go down.
They had the biggest open goal excuse for another delay with Covid. They could've just said "due to Covid restrictions we've had to delay the game until xx/xx/xxxx" and no-one would've said anything because Covid has halted the world, more or less.
 
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Lord Megadrive

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They delayed it in November and they could have extended it to 2021 rather than December. Surely the management and developers knew 3 weeks wouldn’t be enough to get it ready?

Just a crazy situation. When they delayed it earlier in the year, I assumed they just had a few minor bugs and extra polishing to do.

I also doubt people would have moaned about the delays as much as the game they released. They delayed it three times previously and the hype didn’t go down.
I don’t disagree with the fact that on the previous gen consoles it really needed a few months work. But there was idiots giving the devs deaththreats after the original September delay. And it wasn’t just a handful of I recall. I wonder what the reception for games like Skyrim, fallout 3 and Daikatana would be today?

again I believe the game should’ve been delayed further, but it is what it is, let’s see if CDprojectRed can do a Hello Games and really deliver the game we can all see there

(I really enjoyed it btw)
 

Redlambs

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I don’t disagree with the fact that on the previous gen consoles it really needed a few months work. But there was idiots giving the devs deaththreats after the original September delay. And it wasn’t just a handful of I recall. I wonder what the reception for games like Skyrim, fallout 3 and Daikatana would be today?

again I believe the game should’ve been delayed further, but it is what it is, let’s see if CDprojectRed can do a Hello Games and really deliver the game we can all see there

(I really enjoyed it btw)
Daikatana is closer to this than most. Long development time with huge budget, nothing but hype and promise of all sorts of grand genre defining features, then cobbled together for a release that wasn't as bad as some made out yet clearly unfinished and missing all sorts of features.

Actually, the AI in that was also it's worst feature too and probably as laughable for it's time as that in Cyberpunk :lol:
 

Lord Megadrive

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Daikatana is closer to this than most. Long development time with huge budget, nothing but hype and promise of all sorts of grand genre defining features, then cobbled together for a release that wasn't as bad as some made out yet clearly unfinished and missing all sorts of features.

Actually, the AI in that was also it's worst feature too and probably as laughable for it's time as that in Cyberpunk :lol:
I’m glad someone else remembers that John Romero misstep! I felt really old when typing that game :lol:
 

Redlambs

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I’m glad someone else remembers that John Romero misstep! I felt really old when typing that game :lol:
I know/knew a few of the guys who worked on it, funnily enough I ended up on something very similar for a brief time until I jumped ship :lol:

I actually didn't mind Daikatana as a game, it had some charm. It's much like Cyberpunk for me in that I really want to love it as the ideas and basis were brilliant, but development issues just ruining it all. As I said way back then and will always say, when the money men got involved and started making these games more like they make movies (producers, directors, bloated teams, outsourcing all sorts), that's when the visions became harder and harder to keep on track and development times even harder to manage. When you have people who have no tangible skills in development running the show, that's when you end up with these kinds of issues.

CDPR became about the investors long ago, and perhaps we should have seen this coming. Doesn't make it any less sad though, and hopefully the team are kept together long enough and allowed to at least attempt to bring the real game out.
 

Kaos

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I'm glad they've been embarrassed in this way. Back in the days of PS1 and PS2 nobody would even consider releasing a game that hadn't been tested every which way. Companies have got way too comfortable being able to patch away their own sloppiness if they can even be bothered to. Hopefully it serves as a good warning to other companies. Fortunately it happened to this weird ass game for nerds and not something actually good.
Actually its a shame its happened to this game, its not just a 'weird ass game for nerds' but one of the most hyped this generation.

Its more a shame it didn't happen to EA/Activision/Ubisoft who project us to the same repetitive turds every year or Bethesda who've given up making quality games.
 

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Anybody actually managing to play through this without issues? I have it on PC but not started it yet.. Want to know if it's decent as a game.
 

Redlambs

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Anybody actually managing to play through this without issues? I have it on PC but not started it yet.. Want to know if it's decent as a game.
I haven't had a single crash, seen a shitload of bugs but nothing too game breaking (apart from it unequipping weapons at times). However, the A.I is fecked (which CDPR are actually calling a bug...) so it can lead to various frustrating issues like out in the open/bigger warehouses, the AI can and will spawn on you and see you through walls.

It's playable, and definitely fun at times. You might even love it. I've stopped for now though, as I want a few more patches to fix it up.
 

Balljy

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Daikatana is closer to this than most. Long development time with huge budget, nothing but hype and promise of all sorts of grand genre defining features, then cobbled together for a release that wasn't as bad as some made out yet clearly unfinished and missing all sorts of features.

Actually, the AI in that was also it's worst feature too and probably as laughable for it's time as that in Cyberpunk :lol:
Yeah, I remember that!

There's a difference here though. I'm really enjoying it and there's a great game here rather than one that was delayed and was 5 years past its time. I agree about the AI, I don't normally notice it in this sort of game as I'm playing for the experience, but the enemy, car and crowd AI needs a major revision.

Having said that, this is a fantastic game on PC even now and I hope it gets fully finished eventually. If the likes of CDPR go under and we get left with only the likes of EA, MS & UbiSoft it'll be a shame. CDPR are still DRM free and historically have been known for fixing bugs for years.
 

Vidic_In_Moscow

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Actually its a shame its happened to this game, its not just a 'weird ass game for nerds' but one of the most hyped this generation.

Its more a shame it didn't happen to EA/Activision/Ubisoft who project us to the same repetitive turds every year or Bethesda who've given up making quality games.
Okay nerd
 

Lord Megadrive

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I know/knew a few of the guys who worked on it, funnily enough I ended up on something very similar for a brief time until I jumped ship :lol:

I actually didn't mind Daikatana as a game, it had some charm. It's much like Cyberpunk for me in that I really want to love it as the ideas and basis were brilliant, but development issues just ruining it all. As I said way back then and will always say, when the money men got involved and started making these games more like they make movies (producers, directors, bloated teams, outsourcing all sorts), that's when the visions became harder and harder to keep on track and development times even harder to manage. When you have people who have no tangible skills in development running the show, that's when you end up with these kinds of issues.

CDPR became about the investors long ago, and perhaps we should have seen this coming. Doesn't make it any less sad though, and hopefully the team are kept together long enough and allowed to at least attempt to bring the real game out.
Couldn’t agree more, and I think it’s summed up perfectly with how Activision has changed over the years. It started as company with programmers getting away from Atari, with ideals of making fun games with the appropriate credit (iirc Atari at the time didn’t believe in putting the devs names on games) to the multi billion behemoth that wants to monetise the loading screen.
 

Redlambs

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Yeah, I remember that!

There's a difference here though. I'm really enjoying it and there's a great game here rather than one that was delayed and was 5 years past its time. I agree about the AI, I don't normally notice it in this sort of game as I'm playing for the experience, but the car and crowd AI needs a major revision.

Having said that, this is a fantastic game on PC even now and I hope it gets fully finished eventually. If the likes of CDPR go under and we get left with only the likes of EA, MS & UbiSoft it'll be a shame. CDPR are still DRM free and historically have been known for fixing bugs for years.
I'm glad you like it mate. I tried to like it as much, but I'm waiting for patches so I can enjoy it more (mostly as I don't have the time for multiple playthroughs).

But for me, the major gameplay elements all have way too many issues right now for me to really enjoy. The combat, stealth, hacking, skills, levelling all need serious work imo, and though functional for now, I still have hope that even improving the AI (which they've said they are aiming too) would help with a lot of that, so I'm going to wait.

But yeah even in it's current state, it's certainly not terrible and has a lot going for it.
 

Redlambs

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Couldn’t agree more, and I think it’s summed up perfectly with how Activision has changed over the years. It started as company with programmers getting away from Atari, with ideals of making fun games with the appropriate credit (iirc Atari at the time didn’t believe in putting the devs names on games) to the multi billion behemoth that wants to monetise the loading screen.
It really does suck and every single time those people walk into a development studio, I guarantee you the morale drops.
 

Balljy

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I'm glad you like it mate. I tried to like it as much, but I'm waiting for patches so I can enjoy it more (mostly as I don't have the time for multiple playthroughs).

But for me, the major gameplay elements all have way too many issues right now for me to really enjoy. The combat, stealth, hacking, skills, levelling all need serious work imo, and though functional for now, I still have hope that even improving the AI (which they've said they are aiming too) would help with a lot of that, so I'm going to wait.

But yeah even in it's current state, it's certainly not terrible and has a lot going for it.
Is something like AI modular in the code so you could dramatically change it via patching and without a major rewrite (i.e something that would never be undertaken)?

The story is seeing me through for my first play through, but I realise it's nowhere near perfect. What's scary is what we're seeing is nothing to do with it being removed from sale / refunds. They will have to focus dev resource on the last-gen consoles first if they can.
 

Redlambs

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Is something like AI modular in the code so you could dramatically change it via patching and without a major rewrite (i.e something that would never be undertaken)?

The story is seeing me through for my first play through, but I realise it's nowhere near perfect. What's scary is what we're seeing is nothing to do with it being removed from sale / refunds. They will have to focus dev resource on the last-gen consoles first if they can.
It all depends on how they've integrated it, but yes in general it can be worked on easily as a separate entity in most terms without changing the actual game, as it affects all the NPCs and not directly the player. I haven't actually looked at what they've used, but if it's an existing A.I engine then it's even easier.

I suspect the actual issue isn't the code as it is, it's the time needed to properly set up and balance the behaviour. Take the cops as an example, the reason they are spawning in so close as depending on how they've set the world up, (and considering it was aimed at the last gen of consoles and their hdds) they'd have to set up spawn points (once upon a time that would even be manually done!) all around the map then have it use the most relevant ones near the player but also still out of sight. They've quite clearly not done that yet, or are at the beginning of the AI plotting those points.. Also simple pathfinding is fecked for the A.I too, from Civilians to Enemies, which again suggests it's in it's most basic state.

To me it's more a case of things not being scaled/balanced properly. Now they weren't exactly brilliant at that in the Witcher 3 (the levelling and difficulties were the most fecked on that), but in this you can clearly see a lot of the mechanics are place holders. The gunplay is another example, I earlier in the thread talked about the lack of bullet impact, well that's not strictly true as it is in there in some generic capacity but waaaaaaay too toned down and not balanced per gun/per bullet. It's again placeholder, that's why the enemies generally run straight at you through bullets at times, but very occasionally, they flinch.


The good thing is none of it is particularly hard to fix, unless they've been spectacularly amateur in how they've made the individual systems (which I highly doubt, we aren't talking about idiots here), but it is about time. Are they going to get that time? That depends how much of the gameplay staff they have engaged in bug fixing I suppose and how dedicated they are to doing anything but bug fixing. I suspect that the actual focus is almost entirely on the bugs to try to stop that share price slide. But as I said before, since the issues in the gameplay aren't as drastic as they could be, I do have hope we'll get a content patch sometime next year (possibly around the time of the next gen update) which addresses some of this. Then we'll see it closer to their vision.
 

caid

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I haven't had a single crash, seen a shitload of bugs but nothing too game breaking (apart from it unequipping weapons at times). However, the A.I is fecked (which CDPR are actually calling a bug...) so it can lead to various frustrating issues like out in the open/bigger warehouses, the AI can and will spawn on you and see you through walls.

It's playable, and definitely fun at times. You might even love it. I've stopped for now though, as I want a few more patches to fix it up.
Sometimes the AI bugs out and gets stuck on a box, or stuck in an animation (or sees you through walls apparently). Its a problem in itself separate to the ai being fairly basic when it is working. If what was there worked consistently i dont think people would comment on it (in combat at least, it drops further with driving or just wandering about).
Sorting out the bugs is probably a good first step.
 

Balljy

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It all depends on how they've integrated it, but yes in general it can be worked on easily as a separate entity in most terms without changing the actual game, as it affects all the NPCs and not directly the player. I haven't actually looked at what they've used, but if it's an existing A.I engine then it's even easier.

I suspect the actual issue isn't the code as it is, it's the time needed to properly set up and balance the behaviour. Take the cops as an example, the reason they are spawning in so close as depending on how they've set the world up, (and considering it was aimed at the last gen of consoles and their hdds) they'd have to set up spawn points (once upon a time that would even be manually done!) all around the map then have it use the most relevant ones near the player but also still out of sight. They've quite clearly not done that yet, or are at the beginning of the AI plotting those points.. Also simple pathfinding is fecked for the A.I too, from Civilians to Enemies, which again suggests it's in it's most basic state.

To me it's more a case of things not being scaled/balanced properly. Now they weren't exactly brilliant at that in the Witcher 3 (the levelling and difficulties were the most fecked on that), but in this you can clearly see a lot of the mechanics are place holders. The gunplay is another example, I earlier in the thread talked about the lack of bullet impact, well that's not strictly true as it is in there in some generic capacity but waaaaaaay too toned down and not balanced per gun/per bullet. It's again placeholder, that's why the enemies generally run straight at you through bullets at times, but very occasionally, they flinch.


The good thing is none of it is particularly hard to fix, unless they've been spectacularly amateur in how they've made the individual systems (which I highly doubt, we aren't talking about idiots here), but it is about time. Are they going to get that time? That depends how much of the gameplay staff they have engaged in bug fixing I suppose and how dedicated they are to doing anything but bug fixing. I suspect that the actual focus is almost entirely on the bugs to try to stop that share price slide. But as I said before, since the issues in the gameplay aren't as drastic as they could be, I do have hope we'll get a content patch sometime next year (possibly around the time of the next gen update) which addresses some of this. Then we'll see it closer to their vision.
Thanks, I'm an ex-coder (not in games) who has moved into something you'd hate now! What you've said means given the time they could fix the game (because on PC it's essentially only the AI that's a major issue). I think they will fix it as their reputation is at stake here and more so because their history says they've done it before. It took 18 months until Witcher 3 was the game you see now.

The only thing I'd disagree on is where you said about Witcher 3 "The levelling and difficulties were most fecked on that". For the type of player I am, it felt really well done as I was overpowered at the end but that's how a Witcher at his prime should be?