Gaming Cyberpunk 2077 (PC, PS4/5, Xbox One)

jungledrums

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I didn't breeze over anything, they don't come out because it's their job on the line. And they know it. Hell, most probably aren't even bothered about coming forward as it's just accepted. No doubt you'll see that as a good thing.

You mistake me for some outraged fool, or someone who believes the "media" or all the other bullshit you want to spout. Marching :lol:

The fact is you simply do not know what you are talking about. You don't know the industry nor do you understand the specific pressures. You don't get why this is even a big deal, why everyone should speak up about unfair working practices. You are complicent, good for you, but that doesn't mean we all should be.

Oh and you won't be getting a PM. You can look into it if you really want, that way you can't claim I'm just following media bias or whatever other out of touch nonsense you want to spout.

Final word, as a courtesy, you are on the same moral right and wrong side as my old mucker geks. That's a big red flag right there..
Though this ‘crunch’ problem in the gaming industry is significant, isn’t CDPR’s latest ‘version’ less an example of ‘crunch’, and more an example of typical overtime as seen in many other industries? I should acknowledge I’m not entirely clued in on this situation, or crunch more broadly, so it’s possible I have missed important context...

Personally, though, I’m getting destroyed at work currently and am required to stay back every day, including some weekends. Sure, you can’t look at this situation in a vacuum, but perhaps your opinion on this matter is clouded by poor practices occurring elsewhere in the industry? The pandemic has affected what was otherwise an achievable deadline. With regard to the specific conditions subjected to these workers (and disregarding for a moment the shit occurring elsewhere in the industry), is this really such a damaging situation?
 

Redlambs

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Though this ‘crunch’ problem in the gaming industry is significant, isn’t CDPR’s latest ‘version’ less an example of ‘crunch’, and more an example of typical overtime as seen in many other industries? I should acknowledge I’m not entirely clued in on this situation, or crunch more broadly, so it’s possible I have missed important context...

Personally, though, I’m getting destroyed at work currently and am required to stay back every day, including some weekends. Sure, you can’t look at this situation in a vacuum, but perhaps your opinion on this matter is clouded by poor practices occurring elsewhere in the industry? The pandemic has affected what was otherwise an achievable deadline. With regard to the specific conditions subjected to these workers (and disregarding for a moment the shit occurring elsewhere in the industry), is this really such a damaging situation?
That would all be true, if it wasn't a regular occurance on practically every game ever.

Covid isn't the reason here, let's get that straight, the game has been in development for a lot of years and missed many milestones going back years before covid. Crunch is merely accepted for whatever reason, and usually that reason is poor planning from high up and publisher pressure. In any industry if you rush things you get poor results, however in the game industry one of the big problems is that is not only accepted but demanded and they always know it will happen before hand. And they smear anyone who questions it, that's a fact. That's the problem here, not that it's what CDprojeckt are specifically doing, but that it takes what they have done to shine a spotlight.

And for reference, I now work in the construction industry with my own little company after quitting the game industry so I'm very well versed on how project management should be and the factors involved in multiple industries. And I can tell you, the game industry still treats people way worse over all. 2020 and covid are outliers, it should in no way change the fact that certain practices should be outed.
 

Siorac

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Delaying the game isn't always ideal, developers release games in certain windows for differing reasons.
The video keeps harping on about this, too, but is November 28 that much different to November 19? There are 7 Saturdays between now and the November 19 release date - so they could just delay it by another seven workdays, and get it out without any overtime. Doesn't seem like it's worth it, especially when there's no pressure from a publisher.
 

evil_geko

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Though this ‘crunch’ problem in the gaming industry is significant, isn’t CDPR’s latest ‘version’ less an example of ‘crunch’, and more an example of typical overtime as seen in many other industries?
It is, there is a real problem in gaming industry in US for example, but people can't seem to get for example "crunch" in US is on a whole other level compared to overtime in polish CDPR, you can't compare the two, but I guess you can because in todays society, we have to go with the herd mentality and constantly feel offended on the behalf of others, because we have to overreact about everything without doing actual research about it.
 

Redlambs

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It is, there is a real problem in gaming industry in US for example, but people can't seem to get for example "crunch" in US is on a whole other level compared to overtime in polish CDPR, you can't compare the two, but I guess you can because in todays society, we have to go with the herd mentality and constantly feel offended on the behalf of others, because we have to overreact about everything without doing actual research about it.
Says the guy offended about a game before it was even released based on what the herd was saying.

Do you even get how much of a caricature you are? :lol:
 

Bojan11

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Says the guy offended about a game before it was even released based on what the herd was saying.

Do you even get how much of a caricature you are? :lol:
Careful, he might link you to another right wing nut job who thinks talking fast makes him know it all.
 

Redlambs

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Couldn't be as much of a caricature as you are even if I tried hard enough. Bless ya. :lol:
As witty a retort as I ever expect from you my friend. How you holding up these days anyway? We haven't chatted in a bit, I genuinely hope all yours are well!


Careful, he might link you to another right wing nut job who thinks talking fast makes him know it all.
You know me Bojo, I'm a man of the people ;)
 

One Night Only

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The video keeps harping on about this, too, but is November 28 that much different to November 19? There are 7 Saturdays between now and the November 19 release date - so they could just delay it by another seven workdays, and get it out without any overtime. Doesn't seem like it's worth it, especially when there's no pressure from a publisher.
I'd expect the the extra week wouldn't allow for all the testing? The spread across would allow a larger testing window for the bits, whatever is being done on the Saturdays for example will get tested the next week? Not sure tbh.

It's a good point, but the release date coincides with a console release too?
 

One Night Only

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Meh maybe I'm being a bit harsh. My apologies @One Night Only

But it's a subject close to my heart and an industry I've experienced the highs and lows of.

The issue here isn't the paid overtime, it's the acceptance working practices. People shouldn't be afraid of speaking out, yet they are. I can talk about it as I left the industry over certain aspects I didn't agree with (and no, not crunch times. Us nerds didn't have lives anyway :lol:) so I walked the walk and although I left my dream career, I have never once regretted it and that says a lot. However I still have many friends still plugging away in it who have been fecked over time and again, and although stuff like this looks like media hyperbole, it covers a lot of shady shit that actually goes on.
No worries dude, i should probably apologise too because I look like Hitler wanting people to do OT. I just find this example weird due to it being the normal type of overtime in every other industry.

I accept my OT because I dgaf anyway, I'd just be getting pissed in a pub or something so earning money instead is a bonus, it's not ideal but I ain't gonna cry about it especially with others losing jobs.

I have never worked in gaming industry, it was an option at one point, I was coding websites / games when I was 15/16 (PHP , SQL). Not graphical games, text based browser games. I knew it wasn't for me pretty quickly as I realised sitting Infront of a computer and looking through code for where you fecked up was infuriating.

Don't think I'd even be able to hello world anymore tbh, that's how much I ended up disliking it.

I've mentioned this for a reason though, I think gamers going into that career go in with some wonderful expectations of it being a Google, with slides, pinball machines and arcade games. When in reality, it's a shitty office job at a desk with deadlines and tedious work. Reality hits and the jobs seems horrible. Just my impression though, as I said, I've never been lucky/Unlucky enough to work in the industry properly.

There would be nothing worse for me personally, than being on a team having to code/design/whatever a farming simulator game, however I could see that view changing if it was a game/genre I was passionate and excited about. Some of these guys could be working on a game they hate so I could see OT being a chore.

Nerds as you put it, aren't the most outspoken group in general when it comes face to face, probably why gaming companies get away with what they do.
 

Siorac

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I'd expect the the extra week wouldn't allow for all the testing? The spread across would allow a larger testing window for the bits, whatever is being done on the Saturdays for example will get tested the next week? Not sure tbh.

It's a good point, but the release date coincides with a console release too?
It does though that's almost certainly accidental - we knew Cyberpunk's release date long before Sony pulled its finger out and finally announced the PS5. And I can't imagine them secretly coordinating this from the background.

They might want to take advantage of people getting PS5s and wanting this to be their first game on it - dunno. The PS5 arriving will take some of the spotlight off this game and you'd think they'd want all the hype and attention they could get.
 

Berbasbullet

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It’s mad this isn’t a next gen game at release, what an open goal to miss.
 

Berbasbullet

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Don't think so, PS5 just came out, a lot of people will stick with PS4 until the games library increases. Not so stacked right now, not at least to convince me to get one.
Fair point, the way I look at it though is that November 19th I’m getting the PS5, and I want a next gen game to play on that date, if an upgraded Cyberpunk was available day 1 then I’d be absolutely buzzing to play it, but with it not being upgraded until next year I might give it a miss. You’re right though lots of people will buy it for ps4, and I am looking at it in a very egocentric way.
 

SuperiorXI

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Fair point, the way I look at it though is that November 19th I’m getting the PS5, and I want a next gen game to play on that date, if an upgraded Cyberpunk was available day 1 then I’d be absolutely buzzing to play it, but with it not being upgraded until next year I might give it a miss. You’re right though lots of people will buy it for ps4, and I am looking at it in a very egocentric way.
You not going to get it on the PS4? Would be a shame to miss out on a potentially great game
 

Berbasbullet

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You not going to get it on the PS4? Would be a shame to miss out on a potentially great game
Don’t think I can afford to get multiple games at the moment, and I want to get a PS5 game for the experience.
 

Coxy

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It’s mad this isn’t a next gen game at release, what an open goal to miss.
It might not be next gen but you CAN play it on your PS5 / Series X straight away

I'm buying it and will play on the X - yes it won't look as nice as it can do etc - but I'm eager to play.
 

Berbasbullet

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It might not be next gen but you CAN play it on your PS5 / Series X straight away

I'm buying it and will play on the X - yes it won't look as nice as it can do etc - but I'm eager to play.
Yeah that’s fair enough! I think I’ll pick it up in the future.
 

evil_geko

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Looked at it and thought it looks tiny, but then sure they've said something about it being way bigger because it's a lot more vertical?
Yeah, for todays standards, map might look smaller, but I would rather have much smaller map that is packed with content than Ubisoft like huge map that is half empty.
 

Turnip

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I am so hyped for this game, been looking forward to it since its first teasers. Does anyone reckon the difference between the PS4 and PC version will be noticeable? I'm really on the fence about building a new PC for the upcoming generation and this game is kind of the catalyst, but its a lot of money when I could just get it on PS4.
 

Massive Spanner

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I am so hyped for this game, been looking forward to it since its first teasers. Does anyone reckon the difference between the PS4 and PC version will be noticeable? I'm really on the fence about building a new PC for the upcoming generation and this game is kind of the catalyst, but its a lot of money when I could just get it on PS4.
Of course there will - but obviously it depends on how powerful your PC is. If you can play it at max settings on high FPS then there is no comparison really.
 

Shane88

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Oh, what? People wanted to push on for a month and get paid extra? No way, really? It's not Vietnamese sweatshop conditions? No way, really? People hear the word the crunch and haven't a fecking clue what they're talking about and get outraged when it's actually regular overtime? No way, really?

Idiots.

 

pratyush_utd

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In semiconductor engineering, normal working hours just wouldn't work as most engineering problems are not straight forward and requires time and dedication. Some crunches are enforced while in some cases engineers do it to find solutions. Enforced or not it rarely is a pleasant experience but its not as bad as some journalist claim it is. Most engineers I have worked with , gets all worked up if they can't find a solution. This distinction is lost on journalist who can't wrap their head around this. Not a single tapeout i have done in my career without some amount of crunch. It's not as simple as writing an article. There are lot of unknown factors and sometimes it takes up way more time.

I was blown to shred by @Bojan11 :lol: because he thought I was defending Sony on this. But in reality not all crunches or overtime are same.

Jason is also not the ideal journalist because his story are based on his preformed opinions. Just to give you an example, when J.K Rowling controversy happened, he made a passing comment, on how developers must be feeling bad about working on Harry Potter game. And guess what in a week, a story appeared that Harry Potter game developers are disgusted working on that game.

Also before anyone bring compensation, the job I do, I am fortunate enough to earn good money but for the same job, people in western countries earn 5 times more. So I must have more reason to cry about it. But it's not the same for everyone as people are pointing it. Proper compensation and paid leave post a hectic period is what I think is the only solution. Because no company anywhere in the world is going to risk millions in delaying their product.
 

Bojan11

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In semiconductor engineering, normal working hours just wouldn't work as most engineering problems are not straight forward and requires time and dedication. Some crunches are enforced while in some cases engineers do it to find solutions. Enforced or not it rarely is a pleasant experience but its not as bad as some journalist claim it is. Most engineers I have worked with , gets all worked up if they can't find a solution. This distinction is lost on journalist who can't wrap their head around this. Not a single tapeout i have done in my career without some amount of crunch. It's not as simple as writing an article. There are lot of unknown factors and sometimes it takes up way more time.

I was blown to shred by @Bojan11 :lol: because he thought I was defending Sony on this. But in reality not all crunches or overtime are same.

Jason is also not the ideal journalist because his story are based on his preformed opinions. Just to give you an example, when J.K Rowling controversy happened, he made a passing comment, on how developers must be feeling bad about working on Harry Potter game. And guess what in a week, a story appeared that Harry Potter game developers are disgusted working on that game.

Also before anyone bring compensation, the job I do, I am fortunate enough to earn good money but for the same job, people in western countries earn 5 times more. So I must have more reason to cry about it. But it's not the same for everyone as people are pointing it. Proper compensation and paid leave post a hectic period is what I think is the only solution. Because no company anywhere in the world is going to risk millions in delaying their product.
Nah you clearly were. You would not have mentioned or brought up MS, which was weird. If they do it then feck them too.
 

AaronRedDevil

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Still debating which one to play/get first - this or AC: Valhalla. Guess it depends on the early reviews to inform me how buggy one or the other is.
Is that even a debate? You've played Assassins creed before probably. It's going to be the same thing again. Now cyberpunk? That's what you should get. I'm getting both wither way:lol:
 

b82REZ

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Oh, what? People wanted to push on for a month and get paid extra? No way, really? It's not Vietnamese sweatshop conditions? No way, really? People hear the word the crunch and haven't a fecking clue what they're talking about and get outraged when it's actually regular overtime? No way, really?

Idiots.

Let's double down on the stupid comment, aye?
 

Tiber

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I genuinely know nothing about this game, haven't even seen a trailer. Over the past month or so I have been playing Witcher 3 for the first time and it was one of the best gaming experiences of my life.

I ordered Cyberpunk because it's made by the same team. I want to go in totally blind just like Witcher 3 (had never played 1 or 2) and hope to be blown away again