Damage done by previous regime

RedBanker

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It's more than evident now.
1. Players are not anywhere near as fit as required to press effectively for 60 let alone 90 mins.
2. Lack of discipline from some players, to adhere to tactics.
3. Recruitment done in defence the past years exposed horribly. AWB, maguire nowhere near the quality required. Which is why we are having to fall back on second string players.

Can something actually be coached into these players given they have been effectively on a holiday for the past 3 years or is it too much to ask from an interim manager?
 

V.O.

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Jesus Christ, he's gone. You can whinge about the current one now.
 

Dion

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Or... new manager employs radical new tactical organisation on players with less than a week to prepare, resulting in disjointed performance.
 

Goku1983

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Well we have Varane to come back in defense which will help along with Ralf teaching Maguire I agree with your post though damage has been done big time with regards to fitness and discipline.
 

spiriticon

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Are we really making excuses for Ralf already?

He'll not be sacked anytime soon, relax.
 

Idxomer

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The damage done is huge, this squad isn't really fit for purpose.
 

Van Piorsing

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Can something actually be coached into these players given they have been effectively on a holiday for the past 3 years or is it too much to ask from an interim manager?
Players like Donny or Sancho look like they're already coached for particular system, but it will take time for Ralf to develop everybody into it and he got literal months to do it in such huge football club.

So much depends for this summer's appointment. Key decision for United. If a right guy comes, it's possible to get out of this mess.
 

RedBanker

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Or... new manager employs radical new tactical organisation on players with less than a week to prepare, resulting in disjointed performance.
Agreed. But the fall from the Palace performance for a squad that was mostly rested since that game?
 

VanDeBank

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It's more than evident now.
1. Players are not anywhere near as fit as required to press effectively for 60 let alone 90 mins.
2. Lack of discipline from some players, to adhere to tactics.
3. Recruitment done in defence the past years exposed horribly. AWB, maguire nowhere near the quality required. Which is why we are having to fall back on second string players.

Can something actually be coached into these players given they have been effectively on a holiday for the past 3 years or is it too much to ask from an interim manager?
Maguire was decent these last 2 game (and I don't think he's good enough to be our starting CB either)
 

Born2Lose

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It's a sign of modern times that the players are completely blameless in all of this.

You don't need to be coached to press, and it's a disgrace that so many of the team can barely control or pass a ball at times.
 

RedBanker

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It's a sign of modern times that the players are completely blameless in all of this.

You don't need to be coached to press, and it's a disgrace that so many of the team can barely control or pass a ball at times.
Our players specifically.
 

mu4c_20le

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Always knew Ole's fatal mistake was letting ketchup stay in the cafeteria.
 

Greck

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Look closer guys. If you squint hard enough you can see the "strong" foundations Ole left for the next man. 3 years definitely not wasted.
 

The_Midfielder

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Players like Donny or Sancho look like they're already coached for particular system, but it will take time for Ralf to develop everybody into it and he got literal months to do it in such huge football club.

So much depends for this summer's appointment. Key decision for United. If a right guy comes, it's possible to get out of this mess.
Did you say 3 years ? we were pretty good last season
 

crossy1686

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It's a sign of modern times that the players are completely blameless in all of this.

You don't need to be coached to press, and it's a disgrace that so many of the team can barely control or pass a ball at times.
The players have to take responsibility for the lack of intensity and poor passing in general but pressing as a unit is something that has to be coached, otherwise it’s mindless chasing of a football like kids.
 

Dancfc

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You were never going to turn it round from the depths of the Ole meltdown period to what Rangnick wants overnight, there was too much to do.

Like with us after replacing Lampard with Tuchel you're getting better results because you have a much better manager who can manage the situations, but the flaws that saw you have this initial meltdown won't disappear overnight.
 

RedBanker

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The players have to take responsibility for the lack of intensity and poor passing in general but pressing as a unit is something that has to be coached, otherwise it’s mindless chasing of a football like kids.
This. And given that this has not happened in the recent past, it will take all the more time for the manager to get this going.
 

Tom Cato

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It's more than evident now.
1. Players are not anywhere near as fit as required to press effectively for 60 let alone 90 mins.
2. Lack of discipline from some players, to adhere to tactics.
3. Recruitment done in defence the past years exposed horribly. AWB, maguire nowhere near the quality required. Which is why we are having to fall back on second string players.

Can something actually be coached into these players given they have been effectively on a holiday for the past 3 years or is it too much to ask from an interim manager?
The last time we hired an interim manager at this stage of the season we won 8 in a row and 10 of 11 matches. We are not even halfway into the season, fatigue is not it.

AWB, Shaw and Maguire were significantly better footballers last season you'll have to ask them what the problem with doing the same thing they've always been doing is. I don't believe for a second that these players are not fit enough or can't play better than they are doing currently.
 

Delano

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I'd blame Ole for many things. But not today really.

Whether it's Ralf or Ole, you can't legislate for your teams "best" players giving the ball away 30% of the time.

We got in good positions today, but the final ball was awful. The thing I'd blame Ole for was our unorganised press, but that was poor today as well.
 

MadDogg

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It's a sign of modern times that the players are completely blameless in all of this.

You don't need to be coached to press, and it's a disgrace that so many of the team can barely control or pass a ball at times.
Seriously?

There's a hell of a lot more to pressing than just running a lot. Every player needs to be moving and covering the right positions at the right times, having the same triggers for when everyone really pours the pressure on. A good pressing system is probably one of the most key things that need to be coached in the modern game.

While the players certainly do have to take some blame, the lack of training and the lack of confidence throughout the team will always have a significant detrimental impact on pretty much every aspect of the team.
 

MrSingh2002

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The coaching team is now huge.

Would like McKenna gone to be honest as I doubt we need him. He was a part of the failed coaching staff and Ralf now has his own coaches in.

For this to work you'd want clarity from the coaching staff and people like McKenna aren't going to truly know what Ragnick wants.
 

IrishRedDevil

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3.5 years with no coach would leave any team in ruin.

We are going through a transition after the clowns left, it’ll take time.
 

RedBanker

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The coaching team is now huge.

Would like McKenna gone to be honest as I doubt we need him. He was a part of the failed coaching staff and Ralf now has his own coaches in.

For this to work you'd want clarity from the coaching staff and people like McKenna aren't going to truly know what Ragnick wants.
Yes. Seeing the performance today I couldn't help think that anything other a clean slate in training is going to work out.
 

JJ12

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It's more than evident now.
1. Players are not anywhere near as fit as required to press effectively for 60 let alone 90 mins.
2. Lack of discipline from some players, to adhere to tactics.
3. Recruitment done in defence the past years exposed horribly. AWB, maguire nowhere near the quality required. Which is why we are having to fall back on second string players.

Can something actually be coached into these players given they have been effectively on a holiday for the past 3 years or is it too much to ask from an interim manager?
Which regime? All since SAF
 

RUCK4444

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Feckin OP :lol:

Press for 60 mins? Wtf? We didn’t press for 60 seconds. And that is no exaggeration.

I’m fully backing Ralf but that performance was abysmal, the team were rested in Europe and had nothing to do but prepare for Norwich and the players served up a sickeningly bad performance.

The stats for the game are embarrassing and I hate the use of that word on this forum but it’s the only word for it. I’m inclined to blame the players at this stage.
 

Abraxas

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I don't think it's about damage done. Let's say RR sorts them out then does it suddenly mean the previous regime laid an amazing groundwork?

The situation is quite clear, we are a failing, spluttering machine and we're now trying to implement a complete sea change of mentality in and out of possession mid season and we're asking people to be quicker in thought and ability on the ball. So now we're seeing some serious teething problems in the consistency of what they can reproduce.

It's time to move on from blaming Ole, or Jose or whoever else and simply accept the situation for what it is. It's already abundantly clear we are in a mess hence the manager sacked mid season with no plan. The players have responsibility to improve, particularly the controllables like fitness and attitude. RR has to earn his salary and show some improvement, although we have to have some realism about what can be expected.
 

Ralph1386

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The coaching team is now huge.

Would like McKenna gone to be honest as I doubt we need him. He was a part of the failed coaching staff and Ralf now has his own coaches in.

For this to work you'd want clarity from the coaching staff and people like McKenna aren't going to truly know what Ragnick wants.
Exactly what I was talking about in the matchday thread. I fear that Mckenna could be clouding some of Ragnick’s judgment.
 

JPRouve

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To me the most problematic issue is tergiversation(that one is for you @Sassy Colin).

For some reason most of our players refuse to take even mild risk which generally leads to slow build up intead of fast, incisive attacking movements and other times leads to mistakes after the ball carrier put himself under more pressure than needed, the terrible back pass from Telles was an example, he had a pass in a tigh window early but rejected it and found himself forced to make an awkward pass to Maguire that he didn't weight properly. During this game we also saw Bruno and Sancho choose to immediately pass the ball backwards instead of taking the information early and play forward, it's also worth pointing out that their teammates don't make enough forward runs, there is a lack of anticipation when we attack.

Rangnick has a lot of basic tactical work and confidence building to do.
 

DizeeGorilla20

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We have a lazy and unfit squad of players. We get outworked and outrun by every team we play. It's pathetic. Especially our attackers who just phone it in every week both offensively and defensively.

Not even 2 games in and they've just decided they can't be arsed to commit to the press.
 

MrSingh2002

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Exactly what I was talking about in the matchday thread. I fear that Mckenna could be clouding some of Ragnick’s judgment.
Yeh I hate it when I see him whispering shit to Ragnick.

What could he possibly feel confident enough about to try and influence the managers ideas.