Damage done by previous regime

[anant]

Jones, Mata and Matic extended contract under Ole. Martial also.
He publicily said that he wanted Donny. Then he didn't play him, refused to loan him and again refused to play him.
He said to Lingard that he wanted him to stay (and even to sign new contract). Which was the reason why Lingard refused West Ham.

There are no words to describe how bad his man management was.

Jones was extended when Ole was 1 month into his interim tenure. Mata's extension was a mistake, however, I think, it was to keep him at the club as the club was lacking senior figures (remember ROnaldo wasn't in the picture and no one knew what Cavani wanted to do then), Matic's extension was in haste as well, but possibly because the club knew they cant replace him that window (Pogba was thinking of leaving as well that summer). As per most reports, Ole wanted Martial this summer, and Martial's contract was extended during Ole's interim period as well IIRC.

No manager in their right mind will diss their own player. I think 1 prominent manager apart, no one does that, and rightly so. If you're having a player, you'll always big him up, unless they express a desire to leave and the news has become public

 

[lloyd2wayne]

No, West Ham didn't really want him. They offered £10m for their best player but didn't want to pay it, instead spend £25m (what United were asking for) on Vlasic who doesnt play. If teams don't rate Lingard enough to pay

No Grant's role is to be 3rd keeper, incase two keepers are injured, nothing wrong in that really. Not like he is on 200k or something.

Oh really? so you are a mind reader? You knew that Donny and Martial were not in Ole's plans last season? Even though Martial was Ole's choice of 9. Maybe you need to follow the club.

No. West Ham really wanted him that they took him on loan and offered to buy him. Do you realize they offered 10 million because he only had one year on his contract? Common sense should tell you that no?

You really need to follow the club my man. We have DeGea, Henderson and Tom Heaton as the third or you forgot we signed him? That’s why extending Grants contract doesn’t make sense.

Unless you are thick as concrete you will know Donny and Martial were not in his plans. And CAVANI was preferred 9 not Martial. Does this even need explaining?

 

[Caesar2290]

No, West Ham didn't really want him. They offered £10m for their best player but didn't want to pay it, instead spend £25m (what United were asking for) on Vlasic who doesnt play. If teams don't rate Lingard enough to pay

Errm... Jesse Lingard: Ole Gunnar Solskjaer says Manchester United remain determined to keep him at Old Trafford

So goes for VDB, for Martial, Bailly and now Amad.

It's also a coincidence that all of the players mentioned above suddenly started getting loan moves 2 months after Ole was sacked, despite being deemed part of the first team.

Must be that damned Woodward again...

 

[Mr PG]

I do think Ole changed tactics and tried to attack more this season, which was disastrous. I think with Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo coming in convinced him he had what he needed to dominate the ball.

Also a few players he usually relied on were terribly off form and he didn’t change them. I will never for the life of me understand why he persisted with Shaw and Maguire at the expense of Bailly and Telles… even playing Maguire vs Leicester and watford when he wasn’t even fit… fittingly it got him the sack…

 

[Adnan]

Errm... Jesse Lingard: Ole Gunnar Solskjaer says Manchester United remain determined to keep him at Old Trafford

So goes for VDB, for Martial, Bailly and now Amad.

It's also a coincidence that all of the players mentioned above suddenly started getting loan moves 2 months after Ole was sacked, despite being deemed part of the first team.

Must be that damned Woodward again...

It was widely reported that Solskjaer wanted a big squad going into the new season, due to Covid concerns. Below is what Solskjaer said about having a big squad.

"We need a big squad," Solskjaer said. "The start is important, the whole season is important, but you need to arrive in April and May fresh and with enough options. Some [players] might go on loan until Christmas, some might go for a season but I don't want to be too light in any position"

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-united-solskjaer-rangnick-squad-22529289.amp

According to the Times via the Metro: "Solskjaer ignored his staff's concern over signing Ronaldo"


https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/22/man-...-over-cristiano-ronaldo-signing-15642172/amp/

Solskjaer in his own words didn't get involved in the coaching and left that to others. And it's well documented that Kieran McKenna was the prominent figure in our coaching setup, so should he be the one getting the credit for us finishing 3rd and 2nd? McKenna from the evidence of his coaching acumen was a proactive coach but when saddled with players like AWB and Maguire, it's very difficult to remain playing a proactive brand of football.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake Solskjaer made was to bring in Mike Phelan to assist him. Solskjaer went from talking high press, high lines to signing AWB and Maguire with Mike Phelan occupying a slot on the transfer committee. Phelan has made it clear he doesn't trust data analysis over his own eye sight, so why throw him in with the club's recruitment department who are big believers in data science to back up the work of the scouts? It's not a surprise we ended up signing Phelan's former player Maguire and AWB.

 

[romufc]

No. West Ham really wanted him that they took him on loan and offered to buy him. Do you realize they offered 10 million because he only had one year on his contract? Common sense should tell you that no?

You really need to follow the club my man. We have DeGea, Henderson and Tom Heaton as the third or you forgot we signed him? That’s why extending Grants contract doesn’t make sense.

Unless you are thick as concrete you will know Donny and Martial were not in his plans. And CAVANI was preferred 9 not Martial. Does this even need explaining?

Common sense tells you one year means less value? Hazard went to Madrid for 140m with one year left...

I don't care about Grant.. he was never going to play, he knows that.

I am thick as concrete? Martial was top scorer, ofcourse he was in Ole's plans.... you must be following a different team.

 

[romufc]

Errm... Jesse Lingard: Ole Gunnar Solskjaer says Manchester United remain determined to keep him at Old Trafford

So goes for VDB, for Martial, Bailly and now Amad.

It's also a coincidence that all of the players mentioned above suddenly started getting loan moves 2 months after Ole was sacked, despite being deemed part of the first team.

Must be that damned Woodward again...

Ole said alot of things.... did you believe everything he said? He also said he wanted to keep Sanchez... did he?

Amad was about to go on loan to Feynoord in the summer but got injured, ofcourse you'll forget that because it suits your narrative.

 

[United in sin]

It was widely reported that Solskjaer wanted a big squad going into the new season, due to Covid concerns. Below is what Solskjaer said about having a big squad.

"We need a big squad," Solskjaer said. "The start is important, the whole season is important, but you need to arrive in April and May fresh and with enough options. Some [players] might go on loan until Christmas, some might go for a season but I don't want to be too light in any position"

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-united-solskjaer-rangnick-squad-22529289.amp

According to the Times via the Metro: "Solskjaer ignored his staff's concern over signing Ronaldo"


https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/22/man-...-over-cristiano-ronaldo-signing-15642172/amp/

Solskjaer in his own words didn't get involved in the coaching and left that to others. And it's well documented that Kieran McKenna was the prominent figure in our coaching setup, so should he be the one getting the credit for us finishing 3rd and 2nd? McKenna from the evidence of his coaching acumen was a proactive coach but when saddled with players like AWB and Maguire, it's very difficult to remain playing a proactive brand of football.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake Solskjaer made was to bring in Mike Phelan to assist him. Solskjaer went from talking high press, high lines to signing AWB and Maguire with Mike Phelan occupying a slot on the transfer committee. Phelan has made it clear he doesn't trust data analysis over his own eye sight, so why throw him in with the club's recruitment department who are big believers in data science to back up the work of the scouts? It's not a surprise we ended up signing Phelan's former player Maguire and AWB.

Phelan is pretty big on sports science from my understanding. If my memory serves me right I remember reading how he once visited the New England Patriots (it could've been another NFL team) sports science department to experience their innovative methods first hand. Am I missing something here?

 

[Adnan]

Phelan is actually pretty big on sports science and data from my understanding. If my memory serves me right I remember reading how he once visited the New England Patriots (it could've been another NFL team) sports science department to experience their innovative methods first hand. Am I missing something here?

There was quotes attributed to Phelan about 2 weeks ago, where he quite clearly stated he trusted his eyes over computers, data etc, and also said he was a pen and paper guy, rather being into stats.

 

[Bestietom]

Also a few players he usually relied on were terribly off form and he didn’t change them. I will never for the life of me understand why he persisted with Shaw and Maguire at the expense of Bailly and Telles… even playing Maguire vs Leicester and watford when he wasn’t even fit… fittingly it got him the sack…

3 semi finals and a final he claimed. But no trophies to show for it.

 

[United in sin]

There was quotes attributed to Phelan about 2 weeks ago, where he quite clearly stated he trusted his eyes over computers, data etc, and also said he was a pen and paper guy, rather being into stats.

Interesting. Any source?

 

[lloyd2wayne]

Common sense tells you one year means less value? Hazard went to Madrid for 140m with one year left...

I don't care about Grant.. he was never going to play, he knows that.

I am thick as concrete? Martial was top scorer, ofcourse he was in Ole's plans.... you must be following a different team.

One year on your contract don’t mean less value to the selling club in general? What the feck you on about? So if Grant was never going to play why extend his contract?

I’m done bye. Ole is the greatest manger of all time, we good now? Don’t bother replying.

 

[romufc]

I’m done bye. Ole is the greatest manger of all time, we good now? Don’t bother replying.

This is the most Black and White thinking Ever.

Yeah don't bother replying. Clearly you lack understanding.

Saying he didnt do as bad = Greatest manager of all time

 

[lloyd2wayne]

This is the most Black and White thinking Ever.

Yeah don't bother replying. Clearly you lack understanding.

Saying he didnt do as bad = Greatest manager of all time

What else you want us to debate about really? I’m just done going back and forth, I can’t do that? .

I just don’t want to use my daily post arguing with you. You didn’t even know we signed Heaton for third choice, talking about do I follow the club

 

[romufc]

What else you want us to debate about really? I’m just done going back and forth, I can’t do that? .

I just don’t want to use my daily post arguing with you. You didn’t even know we signed Heaton for third choice, talking about do I follow the club

Think you might be the only person in the fan base crying over a Grant extension.

 

[lloyd2wayne]

Think you might be the only person in the fan base crying over a Grant extension.

Not crying, just pointing out how clueless our old management were.

 

[roseguy64]

Interesting. Any source?

It was in The Athletic. But the journalist further explained it was more that he was focusing on that for Man Utd rather than he completely ignores the data. He uses the data but makes his final decision/advice on other stuff since he's got more experience in the game than the other staff so that's where his value is to the manager.

 

[Adnan]

Interesting. Any source?

The source is The Athletic but the quotes below are provided via The Metro.

Explaining his approach to recruitment, Phelan told The Athletic: ‘Technology brings a bit extra. I’ve got to that point in my career where my eyes don’t deceive me. As long as my eyesight is good, I can see what’s going on.

‘There are a lot of people now within the game, because the game can afford it, (for whom) analysis is big: iPads, computers, they all play their part. But a computer has never won a game of football.

‘It is useful but it doesn’t give you a feel for what’s actually going on. It’s easier to present those numbers to a player — kids today understand that world, they want to see how far they’ve run and everybody buys into that. A midfield player now in the Premier League has got to run 14 kilometres, 15 kilometres, which is enormous. But I’ve still got it in the back of my head — why? Why have you got to do that if you can play in a team? Does it get you the outcome you want? Not always.

'Stats can give you evidence. I prefer to see it. I’m still pen and paper. I’m not on a laptop, press a button and it all comes up to you. I can get somebody to do it.’


https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/08/mike...enager-now-worth-over-90million-15887837/amp/

When you have people like Phelan who are set in their ways, and you then give them a place on the transfer committee. It's not surprising the recruitment doesn't mesh with the modern game.

Phelan is also quoted as saying that he doesn't like working on player weaknesses but rather spends all his energy on focusing on their strengths.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

No. West Ham really wanted him that they took him on loan and offered to buy him. Do you realize they offered 10 million because he only had one year on his contract? Common sense should tell you that no?

You really need to follow the club my man. We have DeGea, Henderson and Tom Heaton as the third or you forgot we signed him? That’s why extending Grants contract doesn’t make sense.

Unless you are thick as concrete you will know Donny and Martial were not in his plans. And CAVANI was preferred 9 not Martial. Does this even need explaining?

It doesn't need explaining, because it is categorically wrong.

This time last year, Cavani had started 5 league games to Martial's 13. And Martial had been our top scorer only six months before that. In other words, clearly in the manager's plans.

 

[United in sin]

The source is The Athletic but the quotes below are provided via The Metro.

Explaining his approach to recruitment, Phelan told The Athletic: ‘Technology brings a bit extra. I’ve got to that point in my career where my eyes don’t deceive me. As long as my eyesight is good, I can see what’s going on.

‘There are a lot of people now within the game, because the game can afford it, (for whom) analysis is big: iPads, computers, they all play their part. But a computer has never won a game of football.

‘It is useful but it doesn’t give you a feel for what’s actually going on. It’s easier to present those numbers to a player — kids today understand that world, they want to see how far they’ve run and everybody buys into that. A midfield player now in the Premier League has got to run 14 kilometres, 15 kilometres, which is enormous. But I’ve still got it in the back of my head — why? Why have you got to do that if you can play in a team? Does it get you the outcome you want? Not always.

'Stats can give you evidence. I prefer to see it. I’m still pen and paper. I’m not on a laptop, press a button and it all comes up to you. I can get somebody to do it.’


https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/08/mike...enager-now-worth-over-90million-15887837/amp/

When you have people like Phelan who are set in their ways, and you then give them a place on the transfer committee. It's not surprising the recruitment doesn't mesh with the modern game.

Phelan is also quoted as saying that he doesn't like working on player weaknesses but rather spends all his energy on focusing on their strengths.

Thanks for sharing that. I mostly agree with your view here, but Phelan did mention having someone else mash the iPad buttons for him! The two ideologies can work in tandem I feel, but I understand your concern. The last part about focusing on player strengths is the most damning for me.

I honestly don't see too much wrong with Phelans approach to scouting as long as he's flexible enough to work with the scientific data at disposal (as well) and he appears to not have a problem with it entirely. He did strongly urge the club to sign Bellingham.

 

[VP89]

The source is The Athletic but the quotes below are provided via The Metro.

Explaining his approach to recruitment, Phelan told The Athletic: ‘Technology brings a bit extra. I’ve got to that point in my career where my eyes don’t deceive me. As long as my eyesight is good, I can see what’s going on.

‘There are a lot of people now within the game, because the game can afford it, (for whom) analysis is big: iPads, computers, they all play their part. But a computer has never won a game of football.

‘It is useful but it doesn’t give you a feel for what’s actually going on. It’s easier to present those numbers to a player — kids today understand that world, they want to see how far they’ve run and everybody buys into that. A midfield player now in the Premier League has got to run 14 kilometres, 15 kilometres, which is enormous. But I’ve still got it in the back of my head — why? Why have you got to do that if you can play in a team? Does it get you the outcome you want? Not always.

'Stats can give you evidence. I prefer to see it. I’m still pen and paper. I’m not on a laptop, press a button and it all comes up to you. I can get somebody to do it.’


https://metro.co.uk/2022/01/08/mike...enager-now-worth-over-90million-15887837/amp/

When you have people like Phelan who are set in their ways, and you then give them a place on the transfer committee. It's not surprising the recruitment doesn't mesh with the modern game.

Phelan is also quoted as saying that he doesn't like working on player weaknesses but rather spends all his energy on focusing on their strengths.

Good share Adnan, as always

 

[Greck]

It was widely reported that Solskjaer wanted a big squad going into the new season, due to Covid concerns. Below is what Solskjaer said about having a big squad.

"We need a big squad," Solskjaer said. "The start is important, the whole season is important, but you need to arrive in April and May fresh and with enough options. Some [players] might go on loan until Christmas, some might go for a season but I don't want to be too light in any position"

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-united-solskjaer-rangnick-squad-22529289.amp

According to the Times via the Metro: "Solskjaer ignored his staff's concern over signing Ronaldo"


https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/22/man-...-over-cristiano-ronaldo-signing-15642172/amp/

Solskjaer in his own words didn't get involved in the coaching and left that to others. And it's well documented that Kieran McKenna was the prominent figure in our coaching setup, so should he be the one getting the credit for us finishing 3rd and 2nd? McKenna from the evidence of his coaching acumen was a proactive coach but when saddled with players like AWB and Maguire, it's very difficult to remain playing a proactive brand of football.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake Solskjaer made was to bring in Mike Phelan to assist him. Solskjaer went from talking high press, high lines to signing AWB and Maguire with Mike Phelan occupying a slot on the transfer committee. Phelan has made it clear he doesn't trust data analysis over his own eye sight, so why throw him in with the club's recruitment department who are big believers in data science to back up the work of the scouts? It's not a surprise we ended up signing Phelan's former player Maguire and AWB.

Not Better, Just Arrogant=Phelan in a nutshell. No wonder Rangnick shaded him. Let's count shall we, doesn't attend trainings, not a tactical specialist, doesn't do analytic insight and speaks lowly of technological advancements. Is it a surprise we're a dinosaur club. I'm convinced that loyalty to this guy got Ole fired. He seems to think of himself as some godfather like figure in the background calling shots and making accurate moves on gut feeling. Remember he reportedly was pining for the DoF job when he first got here based on absolute feckall qualifications for the role. Goodness some of these Fergie cronies are pure poison. They emulate his swagger and none of the mentals, skill and expertise that justified it.

 

[Jippy]

No. West Ham really wanted him that they took him on loan and offered to buy him. Do you realize they offered 10 million because he only had one year on his contract? Common sense should tell you that no?

You really need to follow the club my man. We have DeGea, Henderson and Tom Heaton as the third or you forgot we signed him? That’s why extending Grants contract doesn’t make sense.

Unless you are thick as concrete you will know Donny and Martial were not in his plans. And CAVANI was preferred 9 not Martial. Does this even need explaining?

There were differing reports on the Lingard West Ham situation, with Moyes saying OGS blocked it, others saying Langar turned it down.
That insult isn't necessary either.

 

[devilish]

So its all Phelan fault now?

The reality is that despite all this restructuring, these new roles and all this new technology our transfer strategy had remained pretty much the same. We buy the wrong players, we give ridiculous salaries and fees, we keep giving contracts to players that shouldn't be here and we struggle to sell our own players. The difference between Ole's era and previous eras was that we went for safe signings such as EPL proven Maguire and AWB, Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo. We fecked up massively despite taking this very cautious and expensive route.

Which is down to one thing really. We keep promoting inexperienced people and people who had been through this mess from day 1 and expect different results. I wonder why technology didn't unearth the fact that Maguire is slow (and not worth 80m), that AWB can't cross a damn ball, that Varane is a bit injury prone, that VDB is a no 10 etc.

We should be hiring people who had already excelled in job they applied to. This must be done across the board from CEO to DOF, technical director right to managers and coaching staff. Once that happens then we can choose a philosophy and stick to it.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

So its all Phelan fault now?

The reality is that despite all this restructuring, these new roles and all this new technology our transfer strategy had remained pretty much the same. We buy the wrong players, we give ridiculous salaries and fees, we keep giving contracts to players that shouldn't be here and we struggle to sell our own players. The difference between Ole's era and previous eras was that we went for safe signings such as EPL proven Maguire and AWB, Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo. We fecked up massively despite taking this very cautious and expensive route.

Which is down to one thing really. We keep promoting inexperienced people and people who had been through this mess from day 1 and expect different results. I wonder why technology didn't unearth the fact that Maguire is slow (and not worth 80m), that AWB can't cross a damn ball, that Varane is a bit injury prone, that VDB is a no 10 etc.

The solution to this problem is simple really. It's down to hiring people who had already excelled in job they applied to. This must be done across the board from CEO to DOF, technical director right to managers and coaching staff.

Sums it up nicely.

 

[Greck]

So its all Phelan fault now?

The reality is that despite all this restructuring, these new roles and all this new technology our transfer strategy had remained pretty much the same. We buy the wrong players, we give ridiculous salaries and fees, we keep giving contracts to players that shouldn't be here and we struggle to sell our own players. The difference between Ole's era and previous eras was that we went for safe signings such as EPL proven Maguire and AWB, Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo. We fecked up massively despite taking this very cautious and expensive route.

Which is down to one thing really. We keep promoting inexperienced people and people who had been through this mess from day 1 and expect different results. I wonder why technology didn't unearth the fact that Maguire is slow (and not worth 80m), that AWB can't cross a damn ball, that Varane is a bit injury prone, that VDB is a no 10 etc.

We should be hiring people who had already excelled in job they applied to. This must be done across the board from CEO to DOF, technical director right to managers and coaching staff. Once that happens then we can choose a philosophy and stick to it.

Not sure how you came to the interpretation that "it's all phelan's fault". Talking about Phelan doesn't mean he's the only thing wrong at the club. It's a conversation highlighting on one problem at the club. This isn't the same as assigning symptom to cause. It's simply people talking about symptom at the club.

 

[devilish]

Sums it up nicely.

Time and time again United had been caught doing the same amateur mistakes. Take Ole's signings as an example. We spent silly money on the concept that we'll be a counter attack team. Maguire and AWB are decent in a deep line defence. Then we suddenly decided to switch to a high line which made 130m worth of talent basically useless. We had issues with having 3 EPL level goalkeepers when Romero was here. So what does this club does? They get rid of Romero, they give a contract to grant and they also sign Heaton. Guess what? We're having issues again. Meanwhile last summer most expensive signing and the most expensive signing of the year before are rotting on the bench and we refuse to get some money on a player who will be leaving for free in a couple of months time. How silly is that?

As said, we keep promoting inexperience and failure while expecting a different result

 

[devilish]

Not sure how you came to the interpretation that "it's all phelan's fault". Talking about Phelan doesn't mean he's the only thing wrong at the club. It's a conversation highlighting on one problem at the club. This isn't the same as assigning symptom to cause. It's simply people talking about symptom.

Phelan was rotting in Australia. Who brought him back here? Why did we give Fletcher three promotions in 6 months? Why have we hired Jon Murtough as DOF when we know that he had no experience in the job and had been involved in this crap since Moyes time? What experience does Judge have in handling football contracts? Why have we hired someone as manager whose only experience in the EPL was to get a club relegated?

These are the people the club had trusted to spend an eye watering 415m to build the squad. Was the rebuild successful and if not then why are most of these people still in a job?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Time and time again United had been caught doing the same amateur mistakes. Take Ole's signings as an example. We spent silly money on the concept that we'll be a counter attack team. Maguire and AWB are decent in a deep line defence. Then we suddenly decided to switch to a high line which made 130m worth of talent basically useless. We had issues with having 3 EPL level goalkeepers when Romero was here. So what does this club does? They get rid of Romero, they give a contract to grant and they also sign Heaton. Guess what? We're having issues again. Meanwhile last summer most expensive signing and the most expensive signing of the year before are rotting on the bench and we refuse to get some money on a player who will be leaving for free in a couple of months time. How silly is that?

As said, we keep promoting inexperience and failure while expecting a different result

Again. I can’t disagree.

The mismanagement has been astounding. You get what you pay for in life & we have businessmen running our football operations.

 

[Greck]

Phelan was rotting in Australia. Who brought him back here? Why did we give Fletcher three promotions in 6 months? Why have we hired Jon Murtough as DOF when we know that he had no experience in the job and had been involved in this crap since Moyes time? What experience does Judge have in handling football contracts? Why have we hired someone as manager whose only experience in the EPL was to get a club relegated?

These are the people the club had trusted to spend an eye watering 415m to build the squad. Was the rebuild successful and if not then why are most of these people still in a job?

so are you agreeing with me or just misreading something in that post?

 

[Adnan]

If someone can provide evidence of John Murtough being influential when it comes to recruitment at first team level, pre being made DoF in 2021, then please provide it. What we do know is that Murtough was working with the youth at the club (head of youth development), along with creating the structures/mechanisms to modernise the club before he was made the head of football in 2021. What we also know about him via the media, is that he also led the recruitment department when it came to youth signings. Hannibal Mejbri and Willy Kambwala (just to name two) were signed after he engaged directly with the clubs in question, along with the parents and super agent Jorge Mendes.

I don't know if Murtough will be succesful in the mid to long-term but from what i've read, he had nothing to do with recruitment at first team level since Fergie retired. If you want to refute that, then provide your evidence to implicate our then head of youth development, because that's what he was at the time, along with being a sports scientist. There's so much i'd like to share from my perspective on how I feel things should be from a structural stand point, but unfortunately I end up correcting people who imo are misled by a particular YouTube channel run by a Nottingham Forest fan. And it's on that channel, where we see the Forest fan making claims which are easily refuted. But unfortunately those claims are then parroted on here.

Was Michael Edward's the most experienced DoF Liverpool could hire?

Was Brian Marwood the most experienced head of football City could hire in 2009?

Was Salihamidzic the most experienced DoF Bayern could hire in Germany?

What DoF experience did Petr Cech and Marina have before they joined Chelsea?

When you set up a transfer committee and throw in Dinosaurs like Mike Phelan, who are set in their ways and are also allowed their own personal scout. Then it's not a surprise to see him end up signing his former player Maguire, because it's a easy sell to the board due to him working with the player in the past at Hull.

The transfer committee is made up of people with contrasting views, and it's easy to see why it hasn't functioned, because you've got two teams who are polar opposite in their thinking. And the team that was calling the shots and setting the football blueprint, was the team with the first team Manager. I've said this time and time again for several years, that unless we align recruitment and have everyone on the same page, we will carry on having problems.

 

[Greck]

If someone can provide evidence of John Murtough being influential when it comes to recruitment at first team level, pre being made DoF in 2021, then please provide it. What we do know is that Murtough was working with the youth at the club (head of youthl development), along with creating the structures/mechanisms to modernise the club before he was made the head of football in 2021. What we also know about him via the media, is that he also led the recruitment department when it came to youth signings. Hannibal Mejbri and Willy Kambwala (just to name two) were signed after he engaged directly with the clubs in question, along with the parents and super agent Jorge Mendes.

I don't know if Murtough will be succesful in the mid to long-term but from what i've read, he had nothing to with recruitment at first team level since Fergie retired. If you want to refute that, then provide your evidence to implicate our then head of youth development, because that's what he was at the time, along with being a sports scientist. There's so much i'd like to share from my perspective on how I feel things should be from a structural stand point, but unfortunately I end up correcting people who imo are misled by a particular YouTube channel run by a Nottingham Forest fan. And it's on that channel, where we see the Forest fan making claims which are easily refuted. But unfortunately those claims are then parroted on here.

Was Michael Edward's the most experienced DoF Liverpool could hire?

Was Brian Marwood the most experienced head of football City could hire in 2009?

Was Salihamidzic the most experienced DoF Bayern could hire in Germany?

What DoF experience did Petr Cech and Marina have before they joined Chelsea?

When you set up a transfer committee and throw in Dinosaurs like Mike Phelan, who are set in their ways and are also allowed their own personal scout. Then it's not a surprise to see him end up signing his former player Maguire, because it's a easy sell to the board due to him working with the player in the past at Hull.

The transfer committee is made up of people with contrasting views, and it's easy to see why it hasn't functioned, because you've got two teams who are polar opposite in their thinking. And the team that was calling the shots and setting the football blueprint, was the team with the first team Manager. I've said this time and time again for several years, that unless we align recruitment and have everyone on the same page, we will carry on having problems.

I agree he needs to go but I also agree that they are all complicit and have no place at United. Not just by lack of prior experience but by solid sample of incompetence in their time here. Murtough renewed the contracts of Phelan and co this season while we were smack in the middle of the torrid form that would get Ole sacked weeks later. If I didn't know better I'd say he was giving golden parachutes to the boys. Best case scenario is he says "I wasn't corrupt I was just bad at my job". Don't forget the arrogance of defending those renewals by saying he had a holistic view of the long term and wasn't worried about form. Look how well that played out. Murtough, Phelan and Woodward are the 3 musketeers of football management incompetence. Fletcher will probably soon join them to be the 4 horsemen. Phelan (in conjunction with ole) was reportedly the mastermind of the bigbrained strategy of buying overpriced british talent. They've all proven themselves to be part of the rot.

Then you'll hear the likes of Neville talking about something being rotten at the club while sparing his old boys from criticism. This whole club is being eaten alive by Woodward and a nepotic host of cronies.

 

[Adnan]

I agree he needs to go but I also agree that they are all complicit and have no place at United. Not just by lack of prior experience but by solid sample of incompetence in their time here. Murtough renewed the contracts of Phelan and co this season while we were smack in the middle of the torrid form that would get Ole sacked weeks later. If I didn't know better I'd say he was giving golden parachutes to the boys. Best case scenario is he says "I wasn't corrupt I was just bad at my job". Don't forget the arrogance of defending those renewals by saying he had a holistic view of the long term and wasn't worried about form. Look how well that played out. Murtough, Phelan and Woodward are the 3 musketeers of football management incompetence. Fletcher will probably soon join them to be the 4 horsemen. Phelan (in conjunction with ole) was reportedly the mastermind of the bigbrained strategy of buying overpriced british talent. They've all proven themselves to be part of the rot.

Then you'll hear the likes of Neville talking about something being rotten at the club while sparing his old boys from criticism. This whole club is being eaten alive by Woodward and a nepotic host of cronies.

Murtough wasn't in a position to hand out contracts when Solskjaer was at the helm. The contracts are dealt with by Matt Judge and not by Murtough according to numerous reports.

 

[Greck]

Murtough wasn't in a position to hand out contracts when Solskjaer was at the helm. The contracts are dealt with by Matt Judge and not by Murtough according to numerous reports.

Matt Judge- Chief negotiator
Murtough- Football Director.

So Chief negotiator was acting independently of the football director and made the decision to renew the contracts of various staff members independent of the football director? Come on man, it doesn't even sound believable. What's even the point of holding anyone accountable if we're just going to spare the various names we like?

 

[Adnan]

Matt Judge- Chief negotiator
Murtough- Football Director.

So Chief negotiator was acting independently of the football director and made the decision to renew the contracts of various staff members independent of the football director? Come on man, it doesn't even sound believable. What's even the point of holding anyone accountable if we're just going to spare the various names we like?

It's well documented that Matt Judge is the club's director of football negotiations, and he deals with contract extensions and transfer negotiations. A simple google search will tell you that.

 

[AneRu]

So its all Phelan fault now?

The reality is that despite all this restructuring, these new roles and all this new technology our transfer strategy had remained pretty much the same. We buy the wrong players, we give ridiculous salaries and fees, we keep giving contracts to players that shouldn't be here and we struggle to sell our own players. The difference between Ole's era and previous eras was that we went for safe signings such as EPL proven Maguire and AWB, Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo. We fecked up massively despite taking this very cautious and expensive route.

Which is down to one thing really. We keep promoting inexperienced people and people who had been through this mess from day 1 and expect different results. I wonder why technology didn't unearth the fact that Maguire is slow (and not worth 80m), that AWB can't cross a damn ball, that Varane is a bit injury prone, that VDB is a no 10 etc.

We should be hiring people who had already excelled in job they applied to. This must be done across the board from CEO to DOF, technical director right to managers and coaching staff. Once that happens then we can choose a philosophy and stick to it.

Agree with this, the club is insular and notoriously resistant to getting in new people particularly if they are foreign. We have kept far too many people beyond their sell-by date and have promoted novices to positions of authority presumably because they wouldn't challenge the status quo so we haven't really changed but we are just making mistakes under the cover of the new structure.

We appointed Murtough but made him a lame duck because we were tiptoeing around the manager, afraid to offend him and then proceeded to let him and his cronies walk us into the latest series of expensive mistakes. Right now we have the guy who superintendent the RB build, who has been responsible for a few great scouting finds and we won't even part with £10m to give him a chance to compete hiding behind the excuse of keeping all the money and big decisions for a new manager.

The United decline is self inflicted and I don't doubt the fact that they got Ralf in but have no intention of following anything he is going to prescribe.

 

[Greck]

It's well documented that Matt Judge is the club's director of football negotiations, and he deals with contract extensions and transfer negotiations. A simple google search will tell you that.

Director of negotiations is the chief negotiator at Man United which was the first line of the post so I'm not sure what point you think you made there or how you think that is fact checking my post. Furthermore chief financial officers in organisations don't act on their own. I think you're seeing the word "director" and thinking it's some independent higher ranking role to the others dealing with the main business. He can't decide who we want to retain, sell or sack on his own. He will make it with the other directors or by committee or independently by a chief director or chief executive. Depends on the organisation structure however a finance director rarely ever takes company wide decisions alone as they overlap with matters out of their control and in the next director's field.

 

[Adnan]

Director of negotiations is the chief negotiator which was the first line of the post so I'm not sure what point you think you made there or how you think that is fact checking my post. Furthermore chief financial officers in organisations don't act on their own. I think you're seeing the word "director" and thinking it's some independent higher ranking role to the others dealing with the main business. He can't decide who we want to retain, sell or sack on his own.

No he can't decide on his own and requires clearance from the owners.

'Director of Football negotiations' is the official title of Matt Judge. His remit is to renew contracts/ negotiate transfers. A simple google search will tell you this.

 

[lysglimt]

Not crying, just pointing out how clueless our old management were.

Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it is pointless.

 

[AneRu]

Matt Judge- Chief negotiator
Murtough- Football Director.

So Chief negotiator was acting independently of the football director and made the decision to renew the contracts of various staff members independent of the football director? Come on man, it doesn't even sound believable. What's even the point of holding anyone accountable if we're just going to spare the various names we like?

You have to remember that Judge is Woodward's mate from Uni so its possible for him and Woodward to have direct communication and make decisions without Murtough. I think the first big decision that Murtough and Fletcher have made is the Rangnick appointment, even in the summer, when it all looked like we were having a fantastic summer, the club was briefing that Fletcher and Murtough were not involved in the decisions and targets.