That would be stupid Rangnick as a manager is fine as interim but his football even at his best isn't good enough for top Club ,pressing counting pressing as your primary strategy works only to the extent where other teams also want to engage but when the opposition is just happy to defend in numbers and sit back you need to have patience and guile to break them down which isn't Rangnick's teams strongest point.
Damage done by previous regime
- Thread starter RedBanker
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Are you having a laugh?
We are changing a system (we are actually starting to use one) mid way though season and during a period were we've got a game every 3 matches. This team is unbalanced and poorly suited for the pressing game.
I would add Scott McTominay and Fred to that. Both not good enough.
We have too many overhyped an overpaid players who actually do not want to play for United. The don't have the motivation and had their position granted for a long time.
When solskjaer was here everybody said we have a tremendous team who could do well if we replace him.
Now that Rangnick isn't bringing an instant change his fans are panicking and blaming solskjaer
Now that Rangnick isn't bringing an instant change his fans are panicking and blaming solskjaer
Ole letting Ronny remove cheesecake from the menu was the beginning of the end. First these poor lads lost their chips, then their cake, now Ralf’s come in demanding they run around a lot.
It’s gonna take time for sure. Can’t be easy for ‘em.
It’s gonna take time for sure. Can’t be easy for ‘em.
oLe BuIlT a TiTlE wInNiNg SqUaD
I have stated repeatedly I didn't believe the hype about our squad being potential title challengers. Talk about showering them with praise without earning it.
I have stated repeatedly I didn't believe the hype about our squad being potential title challengers. Talk about showering them with praise without earning it.
To be fair, three years of Ole is bound to be a bigger influence on this team than two weeks of his successor.
No.
First they took away cheesecake and I didn't complain because I don't like cheesecake
Then they took away chips and I didn't complain because I don't like chips
Then they asked us to run, so I handed in a transfer request
Spot on.
Would you take second place this season?
I don't think the old regime left that much damage, we've got some great attacking players now..
Morale is low obviously and a lot of the players are in poor form, but thats kinda expected when you've just sacked your manager
People are so quick to forget how good some players can be and we shouldn't just write them off and blame it all on Ole, Carrick etc.. we need to work with what we have and add one or two players, but not a complete overhaul
Changing managers will always cause some damage especially if it's a constant flip-flop between styles, which is what we've had for ten years.. arguably this change-over is going to have the most pain as we're not a pressing team, but it's something that was needed to happen
We need to move forward as a fan-base from Ole, there is nothing to be divided over anymore just support the new manager and give him some breathing space to do his thing..
Morale is low obviously and a lot of the players are in poor form, but thats kinda expected when you've just sacked your manager
People are so quick to forget how good some players can be and we shouldn't just write them off and blame it all on Ole, Carrick etc.. we need to work with what we have and add one or two players, but not a complete overhaul
Changing managers will always cause some damage especially if it's a constant flip-flop between styles, which is what we've had for ten years.. arguably this change-over is going to have the most pain as we're not a pressing team, but it's something that was needed to happen
We need to move forward as a fan-base from Ole, there is nothing to be divided over anymore just support the new manager and give him some breathing space to do his thing..
Unless Liverpool lose half their defense and Chelsea sack their manager thats unlikely
Sucks that the selection and subs so far do not support your sarcasm. Hope that changes though, and I’ll be the first one to tip my hat if it does. Really would.
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The 'clowns' managed to get 2nd and 3rd place finishes in the toughest league in world football.
Blaming Ole for everything is just boring now. We were shocking under Moyes, LVG and Jose too for large periods.
Exactly.
The "system" players are already there, now we need to somehow include "non-system" players (Bruno, Rashford). What will be a hell of a challenge.
Pretty much this.
Didn't Tuchel start out with a bunch of relatively pedestrian 1-0 and similar as well? Basically made sure you were defensively sound before building on top of that?
Ole’s been sacked now, he can’t hurt you anymore.
I’m of the opinion that tactically we were nowhere near as bad as people made out under Ole, in fact - the disaster of this season aside - we played a lot of football that I enjoyed, and I’m going to miss it.
The most damage he did was off the pitch where he hoarded players, made certain players undroppable, alienated the entire bench, and in turn fractured the whole dressing room.
I think that can be undone fairly easily by selling in Jan, rotating the squad more (already being done) and just by virtue of being a new manager Ralf has solved half the problem, with the squad and fans perhaps now accepting it wasn’t just evil career wrecker Ole who didn’t want to start Donny every week, and who saw Maguire and Ronaldo as regular starters.
I’m of the opinion that tactically we were nowhere near as bad as people made out under Ole, in fact - the disaster of this season aside - we played a lot of football that I enjoyed, and I’m going to miss it.
The most damage he did was off the pitch where he hoarded players, made certain players undroppable, alienated the entire bench, and in turn fractured the whole dressing room.
I think that can be undone fairly easily by selling in Jan, rotating the squad more (already being done) and just by virtue of being a new manager Ralf has solved half the problem, with the squad and fans perhaps now accepting it wasn’t just evil career wrecker Ole who didn’t want to start Donny every week, and who saw Maguire and Ronaldo as regular starters.
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And they say leaving the squad in a mint condition for the next manager to take over.
Sometimes supporters need to look and understand that without players commitment and desire to win you get results We get. We can’t always blame managers. I don’t understand why players get free card? They let vanGaal down, they let Mourinho (to some degree down) and they let Solskjaer down. Unless there is different attitude from our players they will let down this and next manager aswell.
Ole left a squad that finished second last season and final of a European trophy plus multiple semi-finals. Ronaldo, Sancho was then added to the squad this season. Most pundits and fans were of the belief we were nearing competing for trophies. The point is it did not work out and Ole was rightly replaced.
Rangnick is now trying to completely change the style of play of players not versed in his vision with hardly any time for training. A preseason and patience is needed for such radical changes. If we look at Klopp building his squad a number of his players were purchased who had played the system and were versed in the gegenpress previously.
Rangnick is now trying to completely change the style of play of players not versed in his vision with hardly any time for training. A preseason and patience is needed for such radical changes. If we look at Klopp building his squad a number of his players were purchased who had played the system and were versed in the gegenpress previously.
If you're replacing a manager with another manager whose playing style is wildly different, it's always going to take time - it's not really a surprise.
LVG took time, Mou took time despite both of them having a pre-season. Ole started off brilliantly, but the team ran out of steam pretty soon, as that side was covering among the least distances in the league.
Similarly, Rangnick will take time as we're trying to develop a high pressing team and our line of engagement wasn't this high ever
LVG took time, Mou took time despite both of them having a pre-season. Ole started off brilliantly, but the team ran out of steam pretty soon, as that side was covering among the least distances in the league.
Similarly, Rangnick will take time as we're trying to develop a high pressing team and our line of engagement wasn't this high ever
Many have gone too far down the 'manager is responsible for every performance' route. It's always been more about the quality, attitude and application of the players and we have more than enough evidence this lot are lacking.
What many believed was that after 3 years and 415m spent Ole had to deliver. This was his team after all. We can't expect the new manager to sort the mess and waste left by Ole in 2 weeks. He needs time and ample investment to sort it out
However even if Rangnick is given no money whatsoever then I am 100% sure that he will win at least as many trophies then Ole did in his 3 year tenure with us
He has already won at least as many as ole because ole won nada.
I get where you're coming from, but I don't think any group of players can press effectively for 90 minutes. Even watching a super fit team like Southampton, they run out of steam long before 90 minutes.
Liverpool and City are the best in the business at pressing because they manage 60-70% possession every game. That's the key for me. Keeping the ball so you don't have to waste your energy constantly pressing, but being able to flick a switch when you do.
All I would say on this subject is I am sure Ralf is pleased to be inheriting this squad, as opposed to the squad Ole inherited.
But as many have said, tactically we have been poor under Ole, so it's going to take time to get the team playing as RR wants them to
But as many have said, tactically we have been poor under Ole, so it's going to take time to get the team playing as RR wants them to
Once a manager leaves, there really isn’t much hangover - I feel this forum has created a bit of a myth around how long it takes clubs to recover from from previous managers because of how toxics Jose was. Once Jose left, it was like an overnight change
RR has a good squad to work with. It’s evident fitness is off the pace but we already knew that.
RR has a good squad to work with. It’s evident fitness is off the pace but we already knew that.
Exactly. Of course manager is always manager and he is in charge. He is always going to get his part of criticism. But when you change managers and still can't get team to winning then there is something else to be looked at. People love to talk about Solskjaer now, like it is his fault despite guiding us to 3rd and 2nd until this season. Same people are blaming every other previous manager and they are the same who will be on frontline blaming Ralf Rangnick and next manager.
Problem is that we have lot of fans who think to high of our players. There are good players otherwise they wouldn't be playing in Premier League. But they need to do a lot more and that is not only on manager. Another problem is that sometimes they just don't seem to care.
Not sure what you mean here. Probably a good idea to not quote someone and then chop a very crucial part of their post out. If you noticed after what you quoted I mentioned the words ‘building’ and ‘foundation’. Whatever happened during Jose’s spell here and however long he was backed by some fans at no point was it ever constantly mentioned how he was building for the future or laying foundations. In fact it was the complete opposite and the main argument about getting rid of Jose was that he would do nothing for uniteds future.
It's wasn't against your point, just general observation. People change standards and their points based on who the manager is. I have seen people who came up with "We have midtable team because we signed players from midtable clubs, so shouldn't expect anything but midtable" during Jose time change their tune just few months into Ole era. Same was true for other side too.
My point is, people want to bury their head in sand based on who the manager is, standards are lowered or raised based on the manager.
Also building for the future was used in first 2 seasons under Jose when he signed players at good age. So many posts like "At least next manager will have good squad as Jose is very good in transfer market".
Yep, even now people use that period to (wrongly) claim he's a defensive coach.
Let's not act like ralf is a sure thing, his hiring in terms of managing the team is a bit of gamble as he has never managed at such a big club and has no meaningful trophies to his name either. In all honesty conte was still the best option out there if we wanted the best chance of immediate success within this season
This is a decent point. Also remember that Ralf has said ‘fitness is pre-season’ or something to that effect. I think the Euros affected us badly, especially Shaw and Maguire. How does that work now, with tired players being asked to run on empty?
Possibly your best point. This points back to the manager/buddy issue with OGS. He didn’t have a plan or any authority. Add in the brevity of time afforded for new manager to work…
This is low-grade nonsense. AWB has lots to learn, for sure; but he has good qualities. Would be great for him if RR were to stay longer, or another top (player-developing) appointment to follow. You can’t lump these two players together in some sweeping generalisation.
Maguire is a good and willing servant. He’s also an intelligent bloke. And a defender with tremendous presence. Not without weaknesses, but… He, too, will benefit from better coaching. Played well last few games.
Well obviously there will be challenges. Challenge no 1: Mr. Marcus Rashford, well that’s my take. Oodles of raw potential, but head in faraway and very wrong place. Then there is Mr. PP. Football as interruption to holidays? Have to interrupt latest Grand Prix excursion to train? PP v. RR? Fascinating, but scary
Yeah, that happens when you hire your 14y nephew as CEO of multi billion company.
We've faced similar issues to what we saw against Norwich (concerns about technical ability/the fitness of the squad, players routinely failing to do the basics and struggling to dominate lesser teams) for about 10 years now so I'm not convinced it's a problem started by Ole. We can't see what goes on behind the scenes and much of the argument in here is just people parroting the bits of unsubstantiated gossip which back their viewpoint and disregarding the rest. All that's really clear is that Ole never consistently had us playing brilliantly, that by the time he'd left we were consistently playing very poorly and that after 3 games Ralf hasn't got us playing well again.
Which isn't to say there are no right and wrong answers - we can use the evidence we have to make educated guesses, but people are so desperate to attribute every failing to whatever (or usually, whoever) they've decided is The Main Problem, that they feign certainty about things we really don't have a clue about. On the basis of the evidence I can conclude Ole wasn't good enough to be United manager and put together a decent argument as to why I think that, but in doing so I don't feel the need to selectively cobble together a bunch of speculation to justify taking that argument to a cartoonish extreme in lieu of accepting that there can be more than one issue at once. The pretence that Ole was 100% dreadful and was personally running round offering aging/injury prone squad players new contracts and coaching our players' ability to control or pass a ball out of them is tiresome, as is the pretence that Ole wasn't a problem at all. What's more tiresome though, is that the United forum is now just two groups of people holding those extreme positions arguing that every scrap of news is further evidence that their chosen viewpoint was right (e.g - we play badly against Norwich and one side jumps to shout that it's evidence Ole wasn't the problem whilst the other jumps to shout that actually, it's evidence that Ole has ruined the club so deeply even a great new manager can't save it).
Which isn't to say there are no right and wrong answers - we can use the evidence we have to make educated guesses, but people are so desperate to attribute every failing to whatever (or usually, whoever) they've decided is The Main Problem, that they feign certainty about things we really don't have a clue about. On the basis of the evidence I can conclude Ole wasn't good enough to be United manager and put together a decent argument as to why I think that, but in doing so I don't feel the need to selectively cobble together a bunch of speculation to justify taking that argument to a cartoonish extreme in lieu of accepting that there can be more than one issue at once. The pretence that Ole was 100% dreadful and was personally running round offering aging/injury prone squad players new contracts and coaching our players' ability to control or pass a ball out of them is tiresome, as is the pretence that Ole wasn't a problem at all. What's more tiresome though, is that the United forum is now just two groups of people holding those extreme positions arguing that every scrap of news is further evidence that their chosen viewpoint was right (e.g - we play badly against Norwich and one side jumps to shout that it's evidence Ole wasn't the problem whilst the other jumps to shout that actually, it's evidence that Ole has ruined the club so deeply even a great new manager can't save it).
Called it when a bunch of people were claiming Ole "would left a team in a much better place than what he took it". Bollocks.
Mourinho left a mess of a team morale wise, but that was it. The basics were there. The players were simply exhausted of being thrown under the bus and made the bed for him. That's easy to fix really just new management who doesn't treat the players like shit and there you go.
But now the problem runs deeper, players may not be demoralized but God damn they look so uncoached it's incredible they can't even make a single pass, 1-2s combinations, they look gassed out after a few minutes. This can't be solved from one week to another, "much better place" what a bunch of nonsense.
Mourinho left a mess of a team morale wise, but that was it. The basics were there. The players were simply exhausted of being thrown under the bus and made the bed for him. That's easy to fix really just new management who doesn't treat the players like shit and there you go.
But now the problem runs deeper, players may not be demoralized but God damn they look so uncoached it's incredible they can't even make a single pass, 1-2s combinations, they look gassed out after a few minutes. This can't be solved from one week to another, "much better place" what a bunch of nonsense.
Fix the midfield and we’ll immediately improve our performances. As it stands, we have one of the worst midfields in the league. Desperately need two first team midfielders in the next transfer window and with question marks around Pogba, we probably need a third. Relegate McFred to a reserve role off the bench.