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I thought he actually did quite well to even get a hand on the free kick. The criticism is harsh. Fred takes the blame for the brainless foul.
 

Foxbatt

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You want him to stand on the right side and put the wall up to cover his left!?

Yeah, no top keeper sets his wall up like that.
Exactly. He needs to get them to try for the far post. That's basic goal keeping. Why? Because it's the longest distance the ball has to travel from where that kick was taken. It gives the keeper more time to get to the ball.
He doesn't need to stand to his extreme right. He needed just one step to his right. His legs were far too apart and his movement of his feet were slow.
Ask any decent coach and they would tell you the same. The further the ball has to travel the more time a keeper has to save it.
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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See this is where you may not understand. You need to get the wall where the ball has to travel the most distance. By putting the wall where he put it, he gave the opportunity for the free kick to be hit into the near post. He was far to his left. One step to the right he would have been in a good position. And he didn't move his feet quickly enough. I have seen the goals in lots of angles and slow motion too.
He is not to blame for the first goal at all.
Pretty much this. Made worse by the fact he let one in from a similar position/set up midweek.
 

11101

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I'm not sure what to think of him today.

He should have challenged that corner but Southampton did a great job pinning him.

The free kick was an error though. Ward-Prowse scored an identical one against him a year ago. He should have been prepared for it.
 

JadoreSox

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So afraid of the post he injured himself against the post trying to save the shot.
Ah yes, truly heroic how he jumped behind the post and tried paddling the ball away with a half extended arm.
 
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Foxbatt

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You want him to stand on the right side and put the wall up to cover his left!?

Yeah, no top keeper sets his wall up like that.
Because he was so much to his left he left space for the kicker to put it in the right corner. The wall should have been one step to the left and he should have been one step to his right.
 

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Exactly. He needs to get them to try for the far post. That's basic goal keeping. Why? Because it's the longest distance the ball has to travel from where that kick was taken. It gives the keeper more time to get to the ball.
He doesn't need to stand to his extreme right. He needed just one step to his right. His legs were far too apart and his movement of his feet were slow.
Ask any decent coach and they would tell you the same. The further the ball has to travel the more time a keeper has to save it.
Pretty much this. Made worse by the fact he let one in from a similar position/set up midweek.

His wall is covering his near post. This is how all walls for free kicks from that position are set up

Are you genuinely... Genuinely suggesting that De Gea should have his wall covering the far post?? Because again... Nobody has EVER done this.
 

Sandikan

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Might be time to use the injury as the soft excuse to give Henderson a run for a while.
 

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Because he was so much to his left he left space for the kicker to put it in the right corner. The wall should have been one step to the left and he should have been one step to his right.
Then he really wouldn't be able to see the ball!!

He also was stood right of centre... Any more and JWP has a free hit at the far post.
 

Foxbatt

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His wall is covering his near post. This is how all walls for free kicks from that position are set up

Are you genuinely... Genuinely suggesting that De Gea should have his wall covering the far post?? Because again... Nobody has EVER done this.
No. He should have got his wall one step to the left and he himself one step to the right. That forces the kicker to get it to the far post. It gives him time to move either way. One step to the right he would have saved it.
If the kicker had gone for the far post he would have time to get to it.
 

Ace of Spades

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Yeah, when I saw the positioning I felt that they were going to score, almost like a premonition, and they did.

Not even the first time this has happened, why he gives that much space to the nearer post is just bizzare.
 

Foxbatt

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Then he really wouldn't be able to see the ball!!

He also was stood right of centre... Any more and JWP has a free hit at the far post.
He didn't start right of the centre. Just go and look at it in a few angles and in slow motion and where his feet was at the start.
 

Chicharo

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De Gea would probably have got less criticism for the free kick if he had just stayed rooted to the spot.

Get nowhere near it and people would have shrugged and said it was just a perfectly placed kick from a dead ball specialist. Because he managed to *nearly* save it he gets more criticism, because it then looks like he could have done more. And hell, maybe he could have done more if he is getting his hand to the ball. But the reality is that he was still doing well to even get that hand to a freekick that would have beaten pretty much any goalkeeper you want in goal.

As for the corner, it was quite similar to another we conceded not too long ago. Flat corner into the area and De Gea is somehow expected to teleport his way through the mass of six bodies in front of him to get to a ball arriving in front of his near post before any of those other players do. Either he goes for it (and gets blamed for being weak when he predictably doesn't claim it) or he stays on his line (as other more dominant keepers regularly do in that same situation too) and gets blamed for not going for it.

Because people think De Gea doesn't go for crosses enough, any cross he doesn't go for is his fault, ignoring the fact that there are some balls he should absolutely not go for. It's not like there weren't already four United defenders against the two Southampton attackers all going for the same ball in front of him.

They were two excellent set-pieces from one of the best set-piece takers in the league. But because people have a pre-existing narrative about De Gea, it's all on him. Even Roy Keane (who has previously been vicious in his criticism of De Gea) didn't blame him:


But no doubt the anti-De Gea brain trust will quickly be in to tell us that not only was it entirely De Gea's fault, but that they themselves would have actually kept it out as they understand being goalkeeping more than he does and/or that De Gea has actually been a liability across his entire career, even in his best seasons. Because that's how braindead agenda-posting works.
Well said.

"Experts" on this forum will just continue criticizing him whatever happens.
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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His wall is covering his near post. This is how all walls for free kicks from that position are set up

Are you genuinely... Genuinely suggesting that De Gea should have his wall covering the far post?? Because again... Nobody has EVER done this.
IMO he should expect Ward-Prowse to go near post because going the other way is a much lower percentage chance. He should also suspect his wall won't provide the cover that he needs and, therefore, cheat just enough to the near post that he can get there and isn't parrying the ball from behind the line exactly like the game in mid-week.

I honestly wouldn't be that critical of it if the same goal hadn't been 2 of the last 3 conceded.
 

arthurka

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I thought he actually did quite well to even get a hand on the free kick. The criticism is harsh. Fred takes the blame for the brainless foul.
No he is to blame for this, Henderson might not be as good between the sticks but he is better in all other parts of the goalkeepers job.
 

westmeath

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Over the wall is never the keepers fault. You give the kick taker that, if he’s good enough to get it up and down good luck to him. This one is not on De Gea.
 

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He didn't start right of the centre. Just go and look at it in a few angles and in slow motion and where his feet was at the start.
https://ibb.co/F59968X

Ok pretty much dead centre. (slightly right)

But you realise if he's any more right he's giving the best free kick taker in the league a free shot (with no wall or anything to beat) at his far post?

Honestly people are being swayed by the fact that he's conceded two in two games... And that they went in the same place. De Gea can't just assume this will happen.

Like someone just said... If he stays rooted nobody would bat an eye lid. It's literally inside the post.
 

westmeath

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Just scrolled up through the comments here. So many people haven’t a clue about football. Disappointing more than anything.
 

JadoreSox

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If you can't cover your near post without diving into the back of the net (or hitting the post) then your positioning is wrong, simple as.
 

Based Adnan

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The times I have seen Hendo play with this defense, there was this calmness on them that is hard to explain. The defense knows DDG weakness and go out of their way to help and this creates confusion in the backfield on set pieces. He may not be as good as DDG when it comes to reflex saves, the calmness should be considered.
Andy Mitten on his podcast a few years ago said the defenders at the time preferred playing with Romero over De Gea because of his communication and willingness to come off his line. This was when we had the likes of Smalling, Jones, Blind etc so different set of players to now but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar situation.
 

Foxbatt

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It's very simple. Keepers save by using their feet. It means you have to give the kick for the dive from the leading foot. For diving right it's the right foot and vice versa.
Furthermore the longer the distance the ball has to travel the more chance for the keeper to get to the ball. It's basic goal keeping. The keeper needs to move his feet quickly to get into the dive.
In this case if DeGea was one step to his right he would have got to the ball. His feet was too far apart for him to lead from his right foot.
If the ball was going to the far post and if the wall was one step to the left the ball needs to get over the wall and then dip into the far post.
This gives it a much longer distance and hence much more time for the keeper to get to the ball.
It has got nothing to diving into the post etc. He simply got it wrong.
Nothing he could do about the first goal. It's not his fault.
 

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Over the wall is never the keepers fault. You give the kick taker that, if he’s good enough to get it up and down good luck to him. This one is not on De Gea.
Yeah, perfect kick. Thought De Gea should have learned to cover more of the near post by now though, considering how much he gets beaten by that exact free kick. With his positioning, the moment Ward-Prowse got it to go over the wall and dip, De Gea might as well not be there.
 

Mcking

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Don’t blame him for either goal but you can see the JWP was targetting his weakness. Every corner aimed to drop under the crossbar. Which isn’t ideal.
This is spot on. His lack of presence alone makes a huge difference. The opposition team could attack without having to worry about a goalkeeping intervention, and our defenders always have to do all the work.

Those corners are very difficult to defend without the goalkeeper. A few more of them, and we'd have conceded another.
 

Leroy The Red

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I don’t think the goals let it were clear errors but I feel he should have done more. But it’s telling that Degea went off and I was barely bothered. If this was 3/4 years ago there would be mass panic.
 

arnie_ni

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No. He should have got his wall one step to the left and he himself one step to the right. That forces the kicker to get it to the far post. It gives him time to move either way. One step to the right he would have saved it.
If the kicker had gone for the far post he would have time to get to it.
Except he wouldn't see the ball because the wall would be in his way.

You set the wall to the right, stand to the centre and if the fk taker puts it in the corner you say well done great fk and move on.

Its the same for every fk from the position, the free kick isn't normally that good
 

TMDaines

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Wouldn’t mind seeing a deep dive bit of analysis on De Gea’s positioning on the two free kicks. I’m convinced his body angle and starting position is all wrong. He basically gives himself no option to dive right to the near post, without having to hop forward a couple of times. The way he is setting up means that he will end up behind the goal line when attempting to save at the near post. He’s now conceded twice this week alone from very similar free kicks.
 

Foxbatt

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Except he wouldn't see the ball because the wall would be in his way.

You set the wall to the right, stand to the centre and if the fk taker puts it in the corner you say well done great fk and move on.

Its the same for every fk from the position, the free kick isn't normally that good
I have seen the goal from different angles and in slow motion. Even just now.
You don't do that from the angle. You always get the taker to go for the longest distance he has to take.
He was left of the centre when he started. If anyone of you have the recording you can see that. He doesn't move his feet quick enough too. He should have been one step to the right. That means he would get to the ball one step quicker.
If the taker went to the far post the ball would have to travel longer and he would have more time.
Just ask any decent coach and he would tell you the same.
By the way I later saw that Glenn Hoddle and Owen said the same thing.
I don't blame him for the first goal at all. Nothing he can do about it.
 

Foxbatt

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Wouldn’t mind seeing a deep dive bit of analysis on De Gea’s positioning on the two free kicks. I’m convinced his body angle and starting position is all wrong. He basically gives himself no option to dive right to the near post, without having to hop forward a couple of times. The way he is setting up means that he will end up behind the goal line when attempting to save at the near post. He’s now conceded twice this week alone from very similar free kicks.
I have seen what Hoddle and Owen said that same thing. You are right. He can't dive to the right because of his starting position. I have seen it numerous times from different angles.
You have to make the ball travel the longest distance to give you the best chance of making a save.
Remember if he was aiming for the far post he would have to get it over the wall and then bend it into the far post. That's a heck of a long time in the air than just putting it in the near post.
This is just basic.
People talking otherwise has no clue about goal keeping. The same way they blame him for the first goal. Nothing much he can do about it. Even if he was commanding in the air he is not going to save it probably. This is why near post corners are so difficult to defend against. This is why United rarely scores from corners because we don't know how to take a near post corner.
 

Foxbatt

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Except he wouldn't see the ball because the wall would be in his way.

You set the wall to the right, stand to the centre and if the fk taker puts it in the corner you say well done great fk and move on.

Its the same for every fk from the position, the free kick isn't normally that good
No you don't. You make the wall depending on what angle the kick is being taken. It's basic mistake he made today. You always make the taker take the longest route. The more time the ball is in the air the more chance you have of saving it.
 

Corey

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No you don't. You make the wall depending on what angle the kick is being taken. It's basic mistake he made today. You always make the taker take the longest route. The more time the ball is in the air the more chance you have of saving it.
Although I'm sceptical about De Gea's positioning on these two recent free kick, I'm not sure what you're saying is right. I mean, it sounds logical, but don't goalkeepers almost always position the wall at the near post for these free kicks? And then they stand slightly closer to the far post, thereby encouraging the taker to shoot towards the near post.

Or maybe I'm going crazy because it's nearly 1:30 AM...
 

T_Model101

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The only argument to be had here is whether he should have had someone on the line. However it basically goes in the side netting, pretty sure I've seen one of two like that go in even with the guy on the line with the topspin
 

Foxbatt

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Although I'm sceptical about De Gea's positioning on these two recent free kick, I'm not sure what you're saying is right. I mean, it sounds logical, but don't goalkeepers almost always position the wall at the near post for these free kicks? And then they stand slightly closer to the far post, thereby encouraging the taker to shoot towards the near post.

Or maybe I'm going crazy because it's nearly 1:30 AM...
It depends on the angle of the position. I am saying because the angle is far out, he should have position his wall one step to the left and he should have positioned himself one step to the right. I have seen it numerous times because of this thread. His starting position was actually to the left of centre. He then had his feet too much apart. Then he started moving to the right. This is where the problem is. Because he starts to the left of the centre and his feet are apart too, he could not get his feet moving quickly enough too. He was the one step away from getting to the ball. The wall one step to the left is to encourage the taker to go to the far post. This gives the keeper more time to get to the ball.
What happens is that if you encourage the taker to go to the near post and if it is on target and into the corner the chances of the keeper making a save is almost zero as what happened today. The fact that `DeGea gets a hand onto it proves the fact that he was one step away from making the save. One step to the right in his starting position and he would have saved it.
Just think of like a banana with the curve on it if the taker has to get the ball over the wall and then bend it into the far post. think of the time it is going to be in the air compared to the shortest distance to the near corner?
 

criticalanalysis

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Just going to drop in here and say I generally agree with the critique of De Gea's positioning and lack of movement from his feet.

He's got to do better and no if he stay rooted to the spot, that's just as bad.

If it was a proper top upright with more pace on the ball then no criticisms but this was reachable imo.
 

Oranges038

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I have watched both goals over and over again. These are my thoughts on De Gea.

The first one, he moves towards the near post and goes outside the frame of the goal, this to me indicates he's going for the ball. He stops, realised he's not getting there. Ends up unsighted behind his own players in no mans land and the ball goes in over his head. If he stays on his line within the near post he has a better chance to keep it out.

The second one. It's a good hit, but it's a saveable height. His starting position is poor, he leaves too much space to aim at but again, you can see he moves, stutters and then dives again.

If you look at his body position, his left shoulder and leg is actually pointing back towards the goal, this is the leg he should be pushing off for the dive. Because his body is at the wrong angle, he dives backward and ends up inside the post when he gets to the ball.
 

Red_toad

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Andy Mitten on his podcast a few years ago said the defenders at the time preferred playing with Romero over De Gea because of his communication and willingness to come off his line. This was when we had the likes of Smalling, Jones, Blind etc so different set of players to now but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar situation.
We looked a lot more in control of the penalty area after half time. Henderson just has an aura around him when he's on the pitch.


Just scrolled up through the comments here. So many people haven’t a clue about football. Disappointing more than anything.
Please feel free to enlighten us?
 

RedRonaldo

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If you ask me, I would give more chance to Henderson to start more games for us. Not saying De Gea should be benched, but maybe play all home games with Henderson and all away games with De Gea, or something like that.
 

Caesar2290

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His second FK in the trot he conceded from that angle. If memory serves he conceded a similar one about a year ago also to Soton.

Could this mean that DDG actually developed a weakness just like Joe Hart's "shoot his lower left"? Time will tell.

But for a while now Dave hasn't been pulling his weight. Especially for a player on the wages he's on. He's just not been his normal self since that Sevilla game at home.

I think it might be time for us to start blending Deano in or look for a replacement GK.