You think he’s just doing it until he gets his dream job at the new Lidl?
Oh behave. He’s been absolutely world class for us for years
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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They're not instructions. They're notes. He's not supposed to blindly follow them, because that would be stupid. He has to make his own reads of what's in front of him.
He read wrong for the Gomez penalty. But he also correctly deviated from the notes for others. That's how it works.
Lots of people seem to forget this and throw idiotic insults at him. I would have Dave before Henderson any day, but would like for him to leave at the end of season just to escape this toxic community and go somewhere where he is appreciated.
Some of these comments towards a goalkeeper who's been here for 10 years of incredible service. Unbelievable.
he had 3-4 word class season and he had at that time xg much better than average GK, other seasons he had average or below average xG stats, and he was absolutely shambolic on PKs and crosses.
De Gea was handed a set of notes that turned out to be 50% accurate (up to and including the first sudden death penalty); with the said sudden death penalty being correctly hit straight down the middle without a single ounce of hesitation (no stuttering in the run up, no looking at the keeper, no waiting for the keeper to make his move; no none of that, just eyes fixed on the ball and hit centrally).
I am at a loss how you can defend De Gea for not following the notes he was given.
I can not state it any more clearer than this...
Had De Gea followed the notes, Manchester United would have won the shootout.
The goalkeeper can't control what the penalty taker does. He can only control his own actions and his own decisions. If a goalkeeper robotically follows the notes he is given, he will make worse decisions and be less likely to save penalties. Which is why nobody expects goalkeepers to do that. It's stupid to complain that he didn't follow the notes blindly when following the notes blindly will make you worse at saving penalties.
De Gea had to make his own decisions in that situation. And by making his own decisions and deviating from the notes on occasion, he made both incorrect and correct reads. That's how it's supposed to work. The outcome is separate to the process being correct. And the correct process isn't "always do what the notes say".
If this is a genuine, unbiased opinion, then I have nothing more to say to you.
The biggest thing for me is when penalty saving isn't your best attribute you should use the notes as much as you should because using your instincts hasn't worked x times historicallly and especially after the initial 5 or so pens in the shootout
- The notes for the first 6 penalties were 50% accurate
- The first sudden death penalty (penalty no.6) was correctly hit centrally down the middle without an ounce of hesitation - yet De Gea simply fell to the side
- Had De Gea followed the notes he was given for the shootout, then Manchester United would have won
You are simply doing a combination of two things:
- You are defending the indefensible
- You are arguing your point for argument's sake
For those reasons, I refuse to engage with you any further.
None of the bold matters, because that's all outcome. De Gea can't control outcome, nor can the coaches.
The only question that matters is whether it is correct for a goalkeeper to strictly follow the notes he is given, or whether it is correct for him to deviate sometimes. Which of those two gives him the best chance of saving penalties. And the the answer is the latter. The fact that using the correct process can sometimes result in negative outcomes doesn't change the fact that it's the correct process.
You can engage or not engage all you like. You're still wrong.
He mostly did follow the notes though. By my count there were only 3 of 11 where he had notes and deviated from them. One he got wrong, one he got correct and the other where both were wrong. And of the 2 he didn't have notes for, he guessed correctly for one and incorrectly for the other.
It is aye, it's actually a thing in football.
When you have a keeper that is stuck to his line it sucks defence back and the rest of the team back. Means a higher press can't be employed and allows the opposition more time and space to build attacks. It also means when you win the ball back it's harder to create attacks and make progress further up the pitch because it's been won back so deep and everyone is dragged back too far.
It's what happened in that game. It's exactly why most of their chances fell in around the 6 yard box and he made so many blocks and saves.
When did I say anything about standing on the penalty spot? I said to stand on the edge of the 6 (where the ball was tapped in from). In the second half they had a similar free kick and that's where he started and he came and gathered. On the goal, he was set up too deep and didn't come for it. There's a huge difference for two almost identical free kicks...
Interesting vid looking at his perfomance over the past few seasons.
Totally agree. It's the same as having slow central defenders. They automatically have to set up deeper so that they can't be run behind. Or we have to have McFred sitting in front of them. With a keeper that commands his area that's less needed. De Gea has been a great servant and I'd never slag him. He was really bad last season but has been much better, this. The media has just got it in for him and want Henderson in because he's English. But I still believe Ole should have subbed him when it came to the penalty shootout. I don't get why you would actually play for penalties when you have one of the worst keepers in the world at saving them. Seems like a no-brainer to me. But of course, there's also the question of trust and loyalty. Even if that trust is sometimes placed in the wrong people. Lindelof being a prime example.
Criticism of him is justified.
Unfortunately many on this forum make things either personal or treat the player as if he's not giving his best(even if they are falling short).
Worse yet they treat players like this who actually genuinely care about the club and are giving their all and want the same as us fans.
How Ole or Rashford for example can get the abuse some of our fans give them is disgusting. I'm not talking about criticism of performance here. They are treated like scum.
The same goes for DDG a great servant of our club for 10 years.
And I'm some one that doesn't think he's good enough now and would rather Henderson.
Class vid. Equal amounts sad and... sad?
You need to get a bit of balance in your life.
This is one heck of a ludicrously over emotional post.
You can't have blind loyalty to a player. Open your eyes. De Gea has let us down at crucial moments (top four race in 2019, semi finals in 2020, Leipzig/Everton/Villarreal 2020/2021) over the past 3 years and his metrics have been going downhill, statistically he's one of the poorest keepers in the Premier League.
We mustn't forget he tried to leave us at the peak of his powers, and would have joined Real Madrid if not for a paperwork error. We have rewarded his decline with an obscene contract, and I no longer see any passion or desire from him.
It's telling he's not even a consideration for captain despite the fact he's our longest serving player. He just doesn't care.
Shame if his United career ends by losing penalty shootout in European final but don't think he'd get away with 3 bad seasons at most of other big clubs, despite the legacy and everything. He was WC GK in 2013-2018 period but not good enough last 3 seasons and only reason he may stay is because no one will offer him those huge wages he's currently on at United. Good thing he's only got 2 years left on his contract so there's a some possibility of selling him and us getting solid fee as well.
This question was asked before I guess, but I would like to hear the opinions on it again : can De Gea be considered one of United legends?
His trophies with us are one Premier League, one League Cup, one EL and one Fa Cup. His best period was around 2014-2018 when he was the best keeper in the league and one of the best in the world (not the best because Neuer existed). After 2018 he declined massively.
Are these good enough for him to be considered a United legend, if he leaves in summer?
Several months I remember when this question was asked I said no, he has been a great player for us, but I won't classify him as a legend for United in general. I still think the same. A great player but not a legend.
What is the people's opinions on this? Will you classify him as a United legend if he leaves now?
His trophies with us are one Premier League, one League Cup, one EL and one Fa Cup. His best period was around 2014-2018 when he was the best keeper in the league and one of the best in the world (not the best because Neuer existed). After 2018 he declined massively.
Are these good enough for him to be considered a United legend, if he leaves in summer?
Several months I remember when this question was asked I said no, he has been a great player for us, but I won't classify him as a legend for United in general. I still think the same. A great player but not a legend.
What is the people's opinions on this? Will you classify him as a United legend if he leaves now?
DDG is an icon. Once he wins the next PL or UCL, he will become a legend.
I guess Ole wanted DDG to redeem himself by winning the Europa. Will have to wait till next season for DDG to redeem himself.
I guess Ole wanted DDG to redeem himself by winning the Europa. Will have to wait till next season for DDG to redeem himself.
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Can you see the irony of your post?
If you can’t, then allow me to explain...
I was expressing my dissatisfaction at a player who has let us down countless times in big games over the past few seasons.
De Gea was given A SIMPLE INSTRUCTION TO FOLLOW from the coaching staff of our club. Given how bad he is at saving penalties, the piece of paper handed to him (showing him where the Villareal players were likely to place their spot-kicks) was invaluable.
In fact they turned out to be 50% correct for the first 6 penalties he faced, but he decided not to follow them.
Now here’s the best part... had he followed them then we would have won the Europa League.
Here’s a reminder of one of the rules of the Redcafe forums:
Attack the post, not the poster.
In fact it is A SIMPLE INSTRUCTION TO FOLLOW.
Can you now see the irony of your post?
He's done for. A great servant, absolute legend but his form since March 2019 is simply unacceptable.
Give Deano a chance for no. 1 spot next season. He was doing fine before Maguire got injured.
Give Deano a chance for no. 1 spot next season. He was doing fine before Maguire got injured.
Yes Dave is our legend. IF numbers of trophy is what people use to classified legendary status of our player then Martin Buchan isnt a legend compare to the likes of john o'shea or wes brown.
Wont happen at United.
There's no irony in telling a guy (you) that calling a player a "disgrace" and ranting about how you want him out of the club lacks balance and is over emotional.
Wrong.
You stated in your post:
'You need to get a bit of balance in your life'
That was a personal attack on me, and was against the rules of the forums.
For that reason, I refuse to engage with you any further.
Surely it's time for him to be moved on? I am not sure about Henderson, but going into the next season with two keepers on almost 500K combined wage is crazy.
His obscene salary will keep him at the club or require that you pay a large portion of his wages elsewhere because who else would pay him £350,000 or £400,000 or whatever a week?
I think you'll bite the bullet and move him along this summer, regardless of the cost, because he doesn't have the ability or aptitude to play the role of a modern keeper.
A great pity in many ways because he was something special doing his reaction save thing behind a deep defence, and he's a nice guy, but it was daft to keep him last season and it would be ridiculous to hold onto him for next.
Not all bad though because Henderson IS a good keeper and will get better again with regular gametime with regular defensive partners.
Any chance of him plus 30-40m for Oblak? We also sell Henderson and have Tom as back up
Time to get rid I think. De Gea was great for us in the period where we were struggling but he hasn't been at that level for a long time now. We can't continue to carry that dead weight when he's on massive wages.
If we're serious about improving there's no room for sentiment. The story about offering him in part exchange for Oblak is definite bollocks but I would love it if we did that. A change in environment could be good for De Gea and that might be the only viable way we could get rid.
If we're serious about improving there's no room for sentiment. The story about offering him in part exchange for Oblak is definite bollocks but I would love it if we did that. A change in environment could be good for De Gea and that might be the only viable way we could get rid.
What the feck
Seriously - Navas. Cech. Kasper, Allison? For about 6 years straight?
God, this forum is getting more funnier every day
True...DDG was the best for the past 6 years straight from 2012 to 2018
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I feel ambivalent when I see him in nets now. That’s a sad thing because at one time he was arguably the best. But; he’s never improved on his communication, kicking, coming and collecting balls in the air, exuding a self confidence to the defenders.
not sure if we will sell him this summer considering how slowly we move but the end is surely near
not sure if we will sell him this summer considering how slowly we move but the end is surely near
I'd be surprised to see someone take him given his current wages to be honest. If you look at the clubs who could feasibly afford that kind of money (and there are probably only 3 or 4 in existence right now), they'd be expecting a world class game-changer. Which he just isn't. I rate him higher than anyone else on your GK books too, and i think Solskjaer also does. I can't see him doing anything that he believes will lower the quality of the first eleven (whether or not he is correct in that view) unless it entailed a good transfer fee. So the sums don't seem to add up.
With Donnarumma being a free agent and demanding really high wages, maybe one of his suitors might look at DDG as an alternative if we sold him on the cheap and he was willing to lower his wage demands to be less than Dannarumma's.
Then again, it could go the other way around and make it difficult for us to sell a declining keeper while Donnarumma is free.
Any of the armchair sports psychologists think the 2018 World Cup broke him? His poor form for us started on the back of that and he never really recovered after making those high profile mistakes for Spain.
In many ways, Casilas being number 1 for so long protected him from that level of scrutiny and he could just get on with at United. Keepers are funny - they can form an illusion of being unbeatable but once that illusion is shattered it's hard for them to recover.
In many ways, Casilas being number 1 for so long protected him from that level of scrutiny and he could just get on with at United. Keepers are funny - they can form an illusion of being unbeatable but once that illusion is shattered it's hard for them to recover.
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