[Alfie092]

I'm not so sure it's that huge right now. We are in a good position in the league (likely to finish top 4), but we're very unlikely to win the league so it's the right time to experiment with Henderson. We're fighting for FA cup only.

However, if we do nothing it will be huge decision to make in the summer and we should start looking for solution NOW, because whatever is the question, De Gea is not the answer.

I think it is a huge decision to make now, because like you said, we mostly likely will get top 4 but not win the league. I think we also have a shot at the Europa League too but not sure if we will go all out in that knowing it would impact our league performances, as history proves that it will.

If we genuinely believe we will get top 4 at best then we may as well throw in Henderson asap and give him as much games as possible because DDG is definitely not the future.

 

[Shane88]

Big Sam ball at weekend. They'll be sending in mortar strikes on De Gea.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Yeah he absolutely needs to be benched but don't see it happening with the money he is on

This is the 3rd season where De Gea has been below average, it's not even as if he dropped from world class to great, he is absolutely awful right now. Something must be done because these type of situations will define our success in the current period of the team's development.

 

[Foxbatt]

Big Sam ball at weekend. They'll be sending in mortar strikes on De Gea.

Big Sam would be a bigger idiot than he looks if he doesn't bombard us with high balls.

 

[croadyman]

Big Sam would be a bigger idiot than he looks if he doesn't bombard us with high balls.

Yeah he will adopt exactly that tactic and don't blame him for that at all

 

[AltiUn]

The question is who do we replace him with?

Longshot but Donnarumma is out of contract soon I believe, although I imagine 90% of top clubs will be after him. Depends whether we want to get in bed with Raiola again too.

 

[golden_blunder]

Longshot but Donnarumma is out of contract soon I believe, although I imagine 90% of top clubs will be after him. Depends whether we want to get in bed with Raiola again too.

Him or Pope would be my choice

 

[swred]

I generally read a lot of threads where the GK is being blamed & think that people take the approach of blaming the GK for everything, usually, that winds me up.

However...

DDG has been poor now for the last few seasons.
Yes, his shot stopping was crazy for a few years, audacious, but the rest of his game is abysmal.

He just doesn't appear to be getting any better in the areas which he struggles with, which would be the worrying part.

His distribution has improved, however he has next to no aerial ability, he's not great 1v1 & he has doesn't appear to have a lot of confidence, or command his area particularly well.

The first mistake in that build up on the free kick was Harry playing everyone onside, but DDG should be flying out, but he comes to he 6 yard line & just stops, caught in no-mans land.

I write this post as a GK who struggled claiming crosses in the air, but i wasn't afraid of diving at the feet of an attacker, or flying out for the punch & taking everything (CB+striker etc.) which made up for it.

It's sad to see, but i believe it's time for DDG to look for a move away from the club to a European team.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

It’s time for Henderson to get a run in goal now. We’ll never know if he’s good enough to make the step up unless he gets a consistent run of games, De Gea has cost us far to many points in recent seasons.

 

[sullydnl]

Realistically I can't see someone else being made #1 before Henderson is given a chance and fails to perform. He has been given a mega contract already and Solskjaer has described him as our future #1. I don't see us selling De Gea and signing someone else to jump ahead of Henderson in the queue.

So if we want De Gea to be replaced over the next couple of seasons, he's currently the most likely bet.

 

[manutddjw]

I’m trying to wrap my head around what changed in him. When he got hear, he was labelled a flapper but we worked on that side of his game to the point where he was commanding his area that we stopped talking about the improvement he made and it was accepted that was another strong side to his game. Years later, he’s rooted to the spot and it’s an issue again.

 

[jeff gurr]

Big Sam would be a bigger idiot than he looks if he doesn't bombard us with high balls.

He will be telling his forwards to bump & hassle DDG every chance they get, set pieces will be entertaining !

 

[Manoucha09]

I’m trying to wrap my head around what changed in him. When he got hear, he was labelled a flapper but we worked on that side of his game to the point where he was commanding his area that we stopped talking about the improvement he made and it was accepted that was another strong side to his game. Years later, he’s rooted to the spot and it’s an issue again.

Came here to ask the same question. I wish he'd turn it around, not least because it would be one less position needing an upgrade. He is a completely different keeper to someone like VDS, but seeing his latter years with us gives me hope that De Gea can somehow turn it around.

It does make you wonder what the goalkeeping staff are doing with him in training. It seems the issues he's had have been there for a couple of years now. Seems to be a confidence issue too.

I'd love it if he does manage to turn it around and we win the league while he is still our no.1.

 

[UncleBob]

I think it’s pretty controversial. He’s basically saying that the only thing the keeper can do there is something 95% plus of people consider a mistake.

He absolutely could and should have gotten more on it.

As I said before a lot of pundits talk utter nonsense, and being an ex-pro doesn’t make them correct. Sometimes they want to play clever and go against the grain, sometimes they want to be controversial, sometimes they want to stand up for a fellow pro, and sometimes they simply talk utter nonsense.
To say the only thing the keeper could do there was what he did is utter utter drivel.

Feel free to quote me where I've claimed that pundits are constantly spot on and that being an ex-pro always makes them right. Not entirely sure why you feel the need to present an argument s way, along with your "95% plus" drivel. If the argument is sound, the argument is sound, even if whoever says it is usually wrong.Thorstvedts argument is sound.
e makes the rigt decision to go for the ball, as he has no idea what's behind him, and because of the short distance between him and Lewin when the ball is crossed there's barely time to react. It's fine margins.

You believe people shouldn't have access to facts because they are factual evidence. When presented with factual evidence you have no leg to stand on and look insane.

Is that you, Donald?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/david-de-gea-2020-21-performances.457015/post-26769246

Lentwood proves my point, with his insane use of stats. Stats for goalkeepers are interesting in terms of using it as a base for further investigation, that's about the extent of it. Everton's second goal had an xG of 0,08, don't think any goalkeeper will be saving it. McTominays was 0,04 and it's a mistake by the goalkeeper.
Everton's 3rd goal, which is a mistake, is 0,58. Rashfords attempt in the 62nd minute has an xG of 0,34, but Olson saves it. Is it a good save? nope, he has his legs wide open but Rashford smacks the ball at his chest of all places.

Liverpool against City, the two massive blunders are 0,83 and 0,96.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

Romero recalled, anyone know if this was before or after the Everton game?

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

It's as simple as this, if you genuinely think David De Gea is not a massive reason why our defence constantly struggles then you must think that goalkeeping is all just about shot-stopping, it isn't and hasn't been for quite some time.

There was a point where I would agree to disagree on this but that time is long gone, if you can't see this problem by now then you're clearly not watching our matches.

 

[mancan92]

Feel free to quote me where I've claimed that pundits are constantly spot on and that being an ex-pro always makes them right. Not entirely sure why you feel the need to present an argument s way, along with your "95% plus" drivel. If the argument is sound, the argument is sound, even if whoever says it is usually wrong.Thorstvedts argument is sound.
e makes the rigt decision to go for the ball, as he has no idea what's behind him, and because of the short distance between him and Lewin when the ball is crossed there's barely time to react. It's fine margins.





Is that you, Donald?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/david-de-gea-2020-21-performances.457015/post-26769246

Lentwood proves my point, with his insane use of stats. Stats for goalkeepers are interesting in terms of using it as a base for further investigation, that's about the extent of it. Everton's second goal had an xG of 0,08, don't think any goalkeeper will be saving it. McTominays was 0,04 and it's a mistake by the goalkeeper.
Everton's 3rd goal, which is a mistake, is 0,58. Rashfords attempt in the 62nd minute has an xG of 0,34, but Olson saves it. Is it a good save? nope, he has his legs wide open but Rashford smacks the ball at his chest of all places.

Liverpool against City, the two massive blunders are 0,83 and 0,96.

Looking at a coupe individual examples isn't the point. Thats the whole point of the global stats. It's across many players over many matches. If your keeper is statistically the second worse in the league using the basic save percentage then theres not much more to say except he has been the second worse in the league at saving shots.

 

[UncleBob]

Looking at a coupe individual examples isn't the point. Thats the whole point of the global stats. It's across many players over many matches. If your keeper is statistically the second worse in the league using the basic save percentage then theres not much more to say except he has been the second worse in the league at saving shots.

For all i care he could be the worst in the league using basic save percentage, doesn't change the obvious issue with the stats and how they are used. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

 

[Borys]

For all i care he could be the worst in the league using basic save percentage, doesn't change the obvious issue with the stats and how they are used. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Sir I think you totally misunderstood how stats work and if anything, it's you who is using it wrong. It's all about analyzing big set of data so that outliers are insignificant, and you focus on those outliers to prove.. I don't know what exactly? As mancan explained:

Looking at a coupe individual examples isn't the point. Thats the whole point of the global stats. It's across many players over many matches. If your keeper is statistically the second worse in the league using the basic save percentage then theres not much more to say except he has been the second worse in the league at saving shots.

 

[Hester_manc]

According to Premier League stats, De Gea is the goalkeeper who has made the second most mistakes in the league, leading to a goal:
Kasper Schmeichel - mistake: 1

Wayne Hennessey - mistake 1

Alphonse Areola - mistake 1

Illan Meslier -mistake: 1

Edouard Mendy - mistake 1

Dean Henderson - mistakes 2

Aaron Ramsdale - mistakes 3

Vicente Guaita - mistakes 3

Kepa Arrizabalaga - mistakes 3

Rui Patricio - :mistakes 3

Hugo Lloris - mistakes 4

Ederson - mistakes 4

Nick Pope - mistakes 4

Alex McCarthy -:mistakes 4

Lukasz Fabianski -mistakes: 4

Alisson - mistakes 5

Bernd Leno - mistakes 7

David de Gea - :mistakes 8

Martin Dubravka - mistakes 8

Jordan Pickford - mistakes 10

 

[UncleBob]

Sir I think you totally misunderstood how stats work and if anything, it's you who is using it wrong. It's all about analyzing big set of data so that outliers are insignificant, and you focus on those outliers to prove.. I don't know what exactly? As mancan explained:

You seem somewhat confused, so please elaborate. Also please point out where i've focused on outliers.

 

[sullydnl]

According to Premier League stats, De Gea is the goalkeeper who has made the second most mistakes in the league, leading to a goal:
Kasper Schmeichel - mistake: 1

Wayne Hennessey - mistake 1

Alphonse Areola - mistake 1

Illan Meslier -mistake: 1

Edouard Mendy - mistake 1

Dean Henderson - mistakes 2

Aaron Ramsdale - mistakes 3

Vicente Guaita - mistakes 3

Kepa Arrizabalaga - mistakes 3

Rui Patricio - :mistakes 3

Hugo Lloris - mistakes 4

Ederson - mistakes 4

Nick Pope - mistakes 4

Alex McCarthy -:mistakes 4

Lukasz Fabianski -mistakes: 4

Alisson - mistakes 5

Bernd Leno - mistakes 7

David de Gea - :mistakes 8

Martin Dubravka - mistakes 8

Jordan Pickford - mistakes 10

Yep, if you look at from the start of his nightmare run that looks about right.

Three points worth noting in his defence though:

1) Some of those keepers have played less than him. Be that Alison (who features highly despite having been out injured for a good chunk of games in that period), Leno (who is right behind him in terms of mistakes despite having made 13 fewer appearances) or Kepa (who managed to make a whole evil-De Gea's season worth of errors in just three starts this season).

2) There may have been a degree to which he was unlucky, as in terms of total errors (i.e. leading either to an opposition chance or goal) the likes of Ederson, Alison and others have committed more during that period. For some reason fewer of theirs were punished with a goal. I suspect the % of De Gea's errors that ended up resulting in a goal are unusually high as compared to other goalkeepers. Nearly all his mistakes in that time cost us.

3) This season he has only committed one error leading to a goal (less than Kepa, Ramsdale, Pickford, Alisson & Pope, the same as Ederson, Mendy, Meslier, Lloris, Henderson, Adrian and Guaita) and 0 errors leading to a chance (less than Meslier, Ramsdale, Alisson, Pickford, Mendy, Fabianksi, Leno, McCarthy, Johnstone and Patrico, while obviously on par with everyone else).

If errors were De Gea's only problem then you could quite easily make the case that he had a bad couple of seasons for errors (that were punished to an unfortunate degree) but is on track to greatly reduce his errors this season.

The real problem is that his general game hasn't been up to scratch. And if his shot-stopping isn't on point then reducing his errors isn't enough, because that's his core strength regardless.

 

[Borys]

You seem somewhat confused, so please elaborate. Also please point out where i've focused on outliers.

Please explain what do you mean by:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/david-de-gea-2020-21-performances.457015/post-26769246

Lentwood proves my point, with his insane use of stats. Stats for goalkeepers are interesting in terms of using it as a base for further investigation, that's about the extent of it. Everton's second goal had an xG of 0,08, don't think any goalkeeper will be saving it. McTominays was 0,04 and it's a mistake by the goalkeeper.
Everton's 3rd goal, which is a mistake, is 0,58. Rashfords attempt in the 62nd minute has an xG of 0,34, but Olson saves it. Is it a good save? nope, he has his legs wide open but Rashford smacks the ball at his chest of all places.

Liverpool against City, the two massive blunders are 0,83 and 0,96.

So Lentwood shows you global-level statistics from 22 games, and you disregard those using specific goals as examples? Am I reading this right?

Second post but this time I have no idea what is wrong with "how they are used".

For all i care he could be the worst in the league using basic save percentage, doesn't change the obvious issue with the stats and how they are used. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

 

[UncleBob]

Please explain what do you mean by:

So Lentwood shows you global-level statistics from 22 games, and you disregard those using specific goals as examples? Am I reading this right?

Second post but this time I have no idea what is wrong with "how they are used".

Global-level stats. Priceless

I'm disregarding the use of numbers that essentially means feck all. Lentwoods stats are meaningless and the comparison is complete and utter stupidity. As a bare minimum you need to introduce a factor for the quality of shots that the goalkeepers faced to look for correleation. A simple "shots on target" is about as worthless as it gets. 100% of the shots on target can result in goals, doesn't mean that any of the goals are a result of bad goalkeeping, just like a goalkeeper that has an average save of 30% of the shots on target can save 90% of the shots another goalkeeper has faced.

 

[Borys]

Global-level stats. Priceless

I'm disregarding the use of numbers that essentially means feck all. Lentwoods stats are meaningless and the comparison is complete and utter stupidity. As a bare minimum you need to introduce a factor for the quality of shots that the goalkeepers faced to look for correleation. A simple "shots on target" is about as worthless as it gets. 100% of the shots on target can result in goals, doesn't mean that any of the goals are a result of bad goalkeeping, just like a goalkeeper that has an average save of 30% of the shots on target can save 90% of the shots another goalkeeper has faced.

The bolded part is a lot of words and no single argument why you disregard those facts.

But I will play your game one last time and show you what you asked for - below you can see table showing expected goals - goals, so it's a parameter taking into account quality of the shot.

Spoiler

De Gea is 15th.

Can't wait to see what "argument" you come up with to disregard that.

 

[UncleBob]

The bolded part is a lot of words and no single argument why you disregard those facts.

But I will play your game one last time and show you what you asked for - below you can see table showing expected goals - goals, so it's a parameter taking into account quality of the shot.

Spoiler

De Gea is 15th.

Can't wait to see what "argument" you come up with to disregard that.

So to sum up. You completely disregard my comment, you then give me a link that completely backs up my points with more information on why, and you now expect me to disregard what i was pointing out as the main issue with Lentwoods use of stats. Brilliant

 

[Borys]

So to sum up. You completely disregard my comment, you then give me a link that completely backs up my points with more information on why, and you now expect me to disregard what i was pointing out as the main issue with Lentwoods use of stats. Brilliant

You didn't make any point, that is the problem. You make a fool of yourself disregarding all facts with the same argument "it means fecks all".

 

[UncleBob]

You didn't make any point, that is the problem. You make a fool of yourself disregarding all facts with the same argument "it means fecks all".

Jesus.

The entire concept of psXg underlines every single point i made about Lentwoods use of stats.

 

[Red00012]

He should have been on the bench and made sit through that 120 mins in the cold.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

So many occasions tonight were Henderson came out to claim a cross or set piece where if De Gea had of been in goal it would have been left up to the defenders.

It's not just about the actual claim, it's about possession, if your keeper comes to claim the ball then you also have possession/control of the ball, or even better, are ready for a counter attack with a quick throw (as Peter Schmeical used to do so often). In this team that could be such a useful assert as we are so good on the counter.

If you leave it to your defenders then even if they happen to win the header then it could still fall to an opposition player and you're instantly under pressure again, this is exactly what happens with De Gea pretty much every time a cross comes near him.

If this sounds a bit simple or basic then that's because it is, which is why I'm so baffled that the £375,000 a week statue gets away with never doing it.

 

[big rons sovereign]

You didn't make any point, that is the problem. You make a fool of yourself disregarding all facts with the same argument "it means fecks all".

It's pointless man. The guys either a wum or an absolute loon from the school of trump lunacy.

 

[Based Adnan]

Another game where his insistence on staying rooted to his line costs us

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Another game where his insistence on staying rooted to his line costs us

No Lindelof being fouled and the ref not seeing it did.

 

[NoneBmStore]

Another game where his insistence on staying rooted to his line costs us

Oh feck off that was 100% Lindelof being a wimp. DDG saved our asses today !

 

[Red00012]

Another game where his insistence on staying rooted to his line costs us

Might as well mention his save in 2nd half as well

 

[arnie_ni]

Another game where his insistence on staying rooted to his line costs us

You what?

He saved our ass today

 

[Adamsk7]

Wow talk about agenda. He literally saved us from losing today. That second half save double save was immense!

 

[sullydnl]

Didn't do anything wrong for their goal per se but he'll get criticism any time he stays on his line and the opposition score. Even when the CB was perfectly positioned to deal with it.

Very good goalkeeping after the Maguire mistake.

Not a game that should really alter anyone's opinion of him in any direction.

 

[Siezard]

Amazing double save in the second half from the most agile keeper in the league. Super reflexes!

 

[Bebestation]

A goal keeper cant not make a save once and make a save in the second half to have himself patting on the back.

He could have done better for the goal even though it was Lindelofs mistake.

Van der Sar would come out for it or make a parry off of that.