[Champ]

Are there people still doubting him?

Watched the game earlier and thought he was impressive, watched MOTD and thought he was even better.

A superb GK. Glad we've got him.

 

[Adisa]

After all these years, disrespect is all I hear.

 

[sglowrider]

Is it me or he seems more emotional or emotionally invested nowadays. Showing a lot more passion.

 

[unplayable]

I had already accepted our fate when that shot from Pukki was flying towards goal, but what a save from De Gea.

 

[edcunited1878]

He can't do this, he can't do that, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Another match where he saves points that otherwise would have been dropped. He's been doing that for more than a decade at United.

No goalkeeper is perfect, but David set his standards extremely high and it's always hard to sustain those levels. But he's elevated himself back to those heights.

Vamos David!!!!!

 

[Lord SInister]

Our greatest goalie, no debate for me.

 

[suheilsworld]

Legend!! Hope his form continues. He looks more vocal and organized. With Varane coming back and Lindelof good form, that back three pairing looks solid.

 

[Lentwood]

All I have read about is how De Gea saved us yesterday, yet when I watch the highlights, I don't understand which of those saves were anything out of the ordinary.

We seemed to have developed this ridiculously hysterical narrative whereby if a GK makes a save, it's always amazing. That's their job. It's like going crazy every time a defender makes a tackle or a striker has a shot.

Which of those saves yesterday would you not expect any PL GK to make? The Pukki one was a standard as standard can be, the Kazak header looked acrobatic but was really one for the cameras and the block from the offside header at the end was routine (and it wouldn't have counted)

In the Arsenal game, Ramsdale made a genuinely good save at 0-0, yet I'm not reading a load of reports about how he saved Arsenal

 

[UnofficialDevil]

We won because of him, again. World class saves from a world class goal keeper.

 

[Litch]

After all these years, disrespect is all I hear.

If you know, you know....

 

[Litch]

Greatest stop stopper but not the greatest goal keeper as there are too many 'falls' to his game. Great keeper in a poor\average side, poor keeper in a good one. This is part of the reason he lost his place in the good Spanish side. His starting postion is poor and rarely comes of his line quick enough, penalty records is poor. His distribution was really poor but has improved. He is terrible in one on one situations and is no way brave enough for a goalkeeper. The Arsenal goal was embarrassing and the reason it was such a freak goal as 90% of keepers stay on their feet, certainly don't turn their back on the play, they wait until the ball goes out. A lot of Utd set piece problems are because he doesn't dominate his box.
As a keeper myself, I'll take Henderson every day of the week.

 

[Tomuś]

Saved our sorry ass, again.

I hope that ultimately Rangnick's tactic is supposed not to have De Gea saves compilation after every other game.

Our back line plus McFred have been better under Ranging but De Gea's too big a part of it as we'd like.

Forwards need more time do adjust it seems, which weill help those behind him to.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Closing in on legendary status.

Already there.

 

[arnie_ni]

@Oranges038

You're quiet? Do you only post here when he makes a perceived mistake?

 

[Raven]

He's a supreme keeper and I think working with Ralf and his team will only strengthen him. I've never seen a shot stopper like him when he's at his best.

 

[Oranges038]

@Oranges038

You're quiet? Do you only post here when he makes a perceived mistake?

Still think he needs to be replaced. Offers nothing as an option on the ball, still stuck to his line, doesn't come for high balls and drags the whole team 30 yards too deep.

When he does more than make the odd camera save, I might change my mind.

 

[arnie_ni]

It's mad to think he's got 160 clean sheets for United, 20 behind no.1 yet Ederson crossed 100 for city at the weekend in only his 5th season

 

[lex talionis]

We’d be so completely fukked if we didn’t have Dave making saves that no other keeper on the planet, not even Dean Henderson, makes on a regular basis.

We would have dropped points to Norwich, a humiliation beyond all belief.

We can’t forget the bad patch Dave went through and it’s fair game to bring that up, but it’s a significant drop off from Dave to our backup keepers or anyone else we might even think about bringing in. We’re sorted at keeper. It’s on midfield where are serious weak links lie.

 

[Stretford_End_17]

degea is back to his best form. i also was one of those who wanted to sell him a few seasons ago. good for him

 

[Lentwood]

I feel like that little kid in the Emperors New Clothes at times on here...I see De Gea making regular mistakes with the odd half-decent save thrown in and yet all I hear about is how he is single-handedly saving us from going down

Can someone please explain to me which of De Gea's saves vs Norwich were 'world-class' or even 'really good'?

There were three saves to my mind, one was offside anyway, leaving the save from the Pukki shot (high and a foot to his right) and the Kabak header which wasn't in the corner and at a decent height.

If either of those go in, you're asking serious questions of your GK, so why are they 'great saves', or why do we have this 'De Gea saved us' narrative? The truth is, Norwich's lack of quality saved us

 

[Adam-Utd]

Is it me or he seems more emotional or emotionally invested nowadays. Showing a lot more passion.

I think he was certainly unhappy or maybe just going through the motions.

I believe his wife and baby were still in Madrid at that point, but they've recently moved to England with him? that must have been tough.

Maybe he got a little complacent too, but with Henderson challenging him he's stepped it up a level again. When he's performing like this there isn't many better.

I've missed David De God pulling out saves you just don't expect.

 

[roonster09]

 

[Raven]

I feel like that little kid in the Emperors New Clothes at times on here...I see De Gea making regular mistakes with the odd half-decent save thrown in and yet all I hear about is how he is single-handedly saving us from going down

Can someone please explain to me which of De Gea's saves vs Norwich were 'world-class' or even 'really good'?

There were three saves to my mind, one was offside anyway, leaving the save from the Pukki shot (high and a foot to his right) and the Kabak header which wasn't in the corner and at a decent height.

If either of those go in, you're asking serious questions of your GK, so why are they 'great saves', or why do we have this 'De Gea saved us' narrative? The truth is, Norwich's lack of quality saved us

 

[sullydnl]

Yep.

People can fairly criticise him for things like sweeping (2nd worst in terms of OPA actions per 90) and claiming crosses (5th worst in terms of % of crosses stopped) but his shot-stopping has been legit so far this season, in a way it wasn't last season.

 

[Raven]

Yep.

People can fairly criticise him for things like sweeping (2nd worst in terms of OPA actions per 90) and claiming crosses (5th worst in terms of % of crosses stopped) but his shot-stopping has been legit so far this season, in a way it wasn't last season.

Or indeed the season before, it's great to see him getting back to his best, I fecking love the guy.

 

[VanDeBank]

Is it me or he seems more emotional or emotionally invested nowadays. Showing a lot more passion.

Ole's influence.

 

[Threesus]

I just want to see this guy lift one more league title man. He joined us at the worst possible time(although nobody could predict what was to come, to be fair).

I do think that we have to have a sweeper keeper after Dave’s time is up, since that kind is what football is trending towards.

 

[Lentwood]

There's one from last season that shows him as 2nd-worst over a much larger sample size and including more GKs, so I'd be carefully about digging those stats out!

Plus, I'd be interested to know how this measure is calculated. Does it take into account the quality of the "chance" or the difficulty of the save?

And again, to my earlier question, which of the two saves I remember him making vs Norwich would any other PL GK not have made?

 

[Corey]

I feel like that little kid in the Emperors New Clothes at times on here...I see De Gea making regular mistakes with the odd half-decent save thrown in and yet all I hear about is how he is single-handedly saving us from going down

Can someone please explain to me which of De Gea's saves vs Norwich were 'world-class' or even 'really good'?

There were three saves to my mind, one was offside anyway, leaving the save from the Pukki shot (high and a foot to his right) and the Kabak header which wasn't in the corner and at a decent height.

If either of those go in, you're asking serious questions of your GK, so why are they 'great saves', or why do we have this 'De Gea saved us' narrative? The truth is, Norwich's lack of quality saved us

The header was a fantastic save. It was one of those where you immediately think it’s a goal as soon as the attacker makes contact. Most keepers are not saving that.

The Pukki shot was also a better save than I initially thought, when I watched it back.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

Aside from when he's in bad form, there's no doubting De Gea's ability to make spectacular reaction saves. The header in the Norwich game was brilliant and he's pulled some top ones out of the bag in other games this year.

The problem is that for every goal he's prevented over the last years with a save only he could make, there's two we've conceded because he can't or won't do basic things most Premier League keepers would without thinking.

 

[sullydnl]

There's one from last season that shows him as 2nd-worst over a much larger sample size and including more GKs, so I'd be carefully about digging those stats out!

Plus, I'd be interested to know how this measure is calculated. Does it take into account the quality of the "chance" or the difficulty of the save?

And again, to my earlier question, which of the two saves I remember him making vs Norwich would any other PL GK not have made?

PSxG+/- expresses how well he's performing in terms of shot stopping relative to the actual quality of the shots he's faced. So if the players take bad shots (as you seem to be suggesting in terms of Norwich's lack of quality and the chances he faced being "savable") then that is reflected in the stat.

Obviously last season he didn't fare well in this regard (5th worst in terms of PSxG +/- per 90, saving -0.02 less than he was "expected" to over the season). Which is why this season's return to being the the best in the league (thus far) should be praised and where the narrative that he's saving us comes from. Quite simply he has saved more goals per 90 than anyone else. And given being one of the best shot-stoppers was typical for him before his extended dip in form, there's no particular reason to suggest it's some aberration that he's performing well in this regard. In fact last season was the atypical season as previous poor seasons were characterised by extreme variance rather than the sustained mediocrity we saw last season (i.e. wilder swings between periods of underperformance/overperformance vs consistent average or sub-average performances). The question is whether he sustains his current form or if we see that same variance again this season.

You're also framing the question inaccurately in terms of assessing his shot-stopping performances. It isn't a case of making saves others can't, it's a case of making saves others could more consistently than they do. All the saves against Norwich may well have been saveable for other goalkeepers but in that case (if we're taking that as being representative of his season as a whole) then De Gea has demonstrably been making those quality of saves more consistently than other goalkeepers. If he wasn't then he couldn't be outperforming them statistically in the way that he is.

 

[lex talionis]

If the vote were taken right now, would anyone else apart from De Gea and Ronaldo be in contention for United player of the year? Sad, but no one comes remotely close to those two. In fact, you'd have to say that apart from Dalot and Sancho the last few matches pretty much everyone else (save Fred's one performance and Pogba's one performance) has been rather crap this season so far, at least by normal United standards.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I have no idea what those stats mean but considering Alison and Ederson are under Foster and Ramsdale it’s clear to see they mean very little.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

If the vote were taken right now, would anyone else apart from De Gea and Ronaldo be in contention for United player of the year? Sad, but no one comes remotely close to those two. In fact, you'd have to say that apart from Dalot and Sancho the last few matches pretty much everyone else (save Fred's one performance and Pogba's one performance) has been rather crap this season so far, at least by normal United standards.

Greenwood has had a decent season. Started it on fire and has played mostly well on the whole scoring some great goals too in a really poor side this year.

 

[roonster09]

I have no idea what those stats mean but considering Alison and Ederson are under Foster and Ramsdale it’s clear to see they mean very little.

@TheMagicFoolBus @anant @Classical Mechanic can explain it better.

 

[roonster09]

There's one from last season that shows him as 2nd-worst over a much larger sample size and including more GKs, so I'd be carefully about digging those stats out!

Plus, I'd be interested to know how this measure is calculated. Does it take into account the quality of the "chance" or the difficulty of the save?

And again, to my earlier question, which of the two saves I remember him making vs Norwich would any other PL GK not have made?

Oh no last season he was poor, so lets no post any stats which says De Gea improved (or regained his form) this season.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I have no idea what those stats mean but considering Alison and Ederson are under Foster and Ramsdale it’s clear to see they mean very little.

It's the most advanced metric currently to measure shot stopping. Goals conceded, Save percentage and xGA are limited in that they don't account for the quality of shots the keeper is facing. PSxG puts a value on the quality of the shot and it's likelihood to result in a goal. E.g. if a shot is taken from the edge of the box under defensive pressure it will have a low xG. That shot can still be powerful and heading for the top corner (it's just less likely on average for this to happen, hence the low xG) with little chance of the keeper saving it. PSxG takes that into account so gives the best representation of how much a keeper is being worked and how they perform against that.

 

[Lentwood]

Oh no last season he was poor, so lets no post any stats which says De Gea improved (or regained his form) this season.

Not quite my point. My point was that if we're using stats for 14 games this season to prove he's somehow turned it around, we need to look at the stats for the last 2/3 years...because he's been statistically amongst the worst GKs in every metric, including shot-stopping, basically since that God-like season under Jose.

14 games is too small of a sample size, especially because I saw a stat recently that said De Gea (pre-Carrick/Rangnick) had faced the 6th-least shots yet conceded the 2nd-most goals....so that plus my feeling he's conceded 3/4 soft goals this season (at least) makes me suspicious about those xG stats.

Don't get me wrong, I am putting De Gea in the 'Rooney' category. I feel bad bashing him all the time, but he's past it and a big problem for us. That's not to say he wasn't absolutely amazing for us for a long time.

EDIT: So I just checked out https://fbref.com/en/matches/11a67612/Norwich-City-Manchester-United-December-11-2021-Premier-League

According to this, De Gea scored a PSxG of +2 against Norwich, despite them only scoring 0.8 on xG (I realise the two are not necessarily directly linked).

Again, going back to my point, any GK in the league would have saved the shots De Gea faced, so I just don't understand how that PSxG can be a useful metric. I would say the big issue with it is that is seems to be biased towards top-level GKs who face a lot of shots. This would actually explain De Gea's "improved" form...as we had faced the 19th-most shots in the league under Ole. It would also explain why the GKs who face far fewer shots (Allisson and Ederson) fairly quite poorly.

I would love to know what is considered 'average', because if it's an average for the entire football league, then you must see my point. In that context, it clearly would favour 'elite' GKs (i.e. PL GKs) who face lots of shots.

 

[anant]

Not quite my point. My point was that if we're using stats for 14 games this season to prove he's somehow turned it around, we need to look at the stats for the last 2/3 years...because he's been statistically amongst the worst GKs in every metric, including shot-stopping, basically since that God-like season under Jose.

14 games is too small of a sample size, especially because I saw a stat recently that said De Gea (pre-Carrick/Rangnick) had faced the 6th-least shots yet conceded the 2nd-most goals....so that plus my feeling he's conceded 3/4 soft goals this season (at least) makes me suspicious about those xG stats.

Don't get me wrong, I am putting De Gea in the 'Rooney' category. I feel bad bashing him all the time, but he's past it and a big problem for us. That's not to say he wasn't absolutely amazing for us for a long time.

EDIT: So I just checked out https://fbref.com/en/matches/11a67612/Norwich-City-Manchester-United-December-11-2021-Premier-League

According to this, De Gea scored a PSxG of +2 against Norwich, despite them only scoring 0.8 on xG (I realise the two are not necessarily directly linked).

Again, going back to my point, any GK in the league would have saved the shots De Gea faced, so I just don't understand how that PSxG can be a useful metric. I would say the big issue with it is that is seems to be biased towards top-level GKs who face a lot of shots. This would actually explain De Gea's "improved" form...as we had faced the 19th-most shots in the league under Ole. It would also explain why the GKs who face far fewer shots (Allisson and Ederson) fairly quite poorly.

I would love to know what is considered 'average', because if it's an average for the entire football league, then you must see my point. In that context, it clearly would favour 'elite' GKs (i.e. PL GKs) who face lots of shots.

So, DDG faced 5 shots - I believe one was a fantastic save and then there was a double save (which may have been ruled offside had it gone in though, but because it wasn't is part of the number here).

PSxG-G is actually taking care of the distance flaw that you're talking about. Most of these shots are either off target, which would give them a PSxG value of 0 or straight at the keeper which would give them a low PSxG value. If there is a screamer heading for the top corner, it'll have a high value which may or may not favour the keeper. So, unless, the oppo isnt taking meek efforts on goal from outside the box, it's unlikely to benefit the GK.

Now obviously, like with all stats, PSxG doesn't tell you the whole story - like shot avoidance which is a high(er) risk high reward strategy but has become more mainstream now. So, a few shots/goals we've conceded could have been avoided had Dave obviously claimed the cross or come off his line to stop a situation from developing.

 

[Levenstein]

I have no idea what those stats mean but considering Alison and Ederson are under Foster and Ramsdale it’s clear to see they mean very little.

It means what it is supposed to mean - Alisson and Ederson are poor shot stoppers.