1
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 58
- Clean sheets
- 25
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
I'd say there's a marked difference.
Allison is making the saves and is still doing everything else expected of him. Passing, sweeping, claiming crosses. He hasn't dropped his levels.
DDG excels when he's facing lots of chances. Because it allows him to just stay on his line and make saves, he was still not doing everything else to any decent level. His shot stopping peaked in 17/18. Since then he's been average in PL terms and overall performance levels have had massive peaks and troughs.
This isn’t even correct even though you have done some amazing manipulation of stats
Our last 24 games in all competitions, Dave has conceded 15 goals.
What exactly have I manipulated?
Dear lord man, you are completely cherry picking these things and ignoring anything else. Of course he isn't going to be contributing as much offensively to Liverpool in a season where they are struggling. Thats like blaming a winger for not being as effective one season because their striker has gone to pot despite him still delivering just as many crosses into exactly the same areas. Thats about as stupid as ranking keepers by the number of saves they make or the number of clean sheets they keep as an absolute measure of value.
Football is a team game. A goalkeeper can only influence so much when his teammates are underperforming. When Liverpool were playing well, Allison was vital to that. Not for his shot stopping but for everything else. Christ, a keeper can only make half the saves they do make when the striker gives them a chance.
Why do you think EtH tried to get DDG playing out from the back from almost day one when he arrived when its so clearly completely irrelevant to you value as a keeper to your team? Why do you think every top manager values a keeper who can pass, is calm under pressure when playing around the back and who can accurately hit long passes up the pitch? Either all the top managers in the world are idiots and you are right or...
You forgot games he missed
Sorry, my bad. How many did he miss? 1 or 2
Another great thing about Dave. He's never injured
Which one was that then? The first goal at Villa that he inexplicably tried to stop with his feet? The second at Villa which he positioned himself way too far over for giving Digne a pretty much open goal to aim at? The one at Fulham that most goalkeepers dive on as the ball goes across? The one against Everton that he may as well have scored for them? The free kick at Palace that came directly from him aimlessly hoofing the ball back into their possession instead of playing the simply 10 yard pass to an unmarked Martinez? The first at Arsenal that came from a cross most decent goalkeepers are cutting out? The second at Arsenal that came from miles out? Just wondering which one of those you think he had a hand in.
The one he let in at his near post. 15 conceded in 24 ain't bad eh?
Football is a team game and on that note, isn't De Gea doing well as part of a team that have conceded 15 in the last 24 matches?
I went back and looked at those goals and all I can say is that you must have an agenda.
He didn't even play in 4 of them.
Three of the others were against low quality cup opposition. That brings it back to 15 goals in 17 games against remotely decent opposition which hardly sounds so impressive.In the league he's conceded 10 in his last 9. Certainly doesn't sound as good as the figures you are (incorrectly) using. If we go back to the Everton game (which is the start of your 24 game claim to cherry pick the start-point after a huge amount of goals conceded) it's still 12 goals in 14 games in the league. A little better but hardly amazing.
In the same 14 game period in the league Nick Pope has conceded 5 goals. Ramsdale has conceded 10.
Are you trying to suggest it's down to the goalkeeper? So last season when we conceded 50 odd despite De Gea supposedly having a brilliant season, that was down to the defenders not being good enough, but this season, after we've signed a new centre back, kept Varane fit and signed the best holding midfielder in the world, it's down to De Gea (but only the part of the season we've started defending better and not the season as a whole because we can conveniently discount lots of goals during the early part of the season De Gea was resposible for)?
Also I've no idea where your stats are from because in De Gea's last 24 games, he's conceded 23 goals.
No agenda I just expect a "world class" goalkeeper to be world class. I've looked after goalkeepers varying in age from 12 to 35 over the past 10 years or so and those are all goals I'd be asking questions of my players at any age/level for so I don't see why that standard shouldn't apply to De Gea.
He's won us places as well. People make mistakes.
There's always an excuse for him. Especially when his replacements have done better.
When Henderson did well it was because the games he played the opposition was shit and that Salah goal is what everyone harps back to.
Romero only played in the Europa League, so when he did well it didn't count either.
This sort of arguing about De Gea shouldn't really be required after 500+ games. He is what he is and the differences between him and the best keepers in the best sides are what they are. It should be evident even without delving into stats that he's declined since his peak and is at odds with the profile of goalkeeper favoured by the top teams, or even ETH previously.
The more central issue is "he's the least of our problems" type arguments, which accept his flaws but argue we have too many more pressing issues to address them at the moment. Because that has typically been the more reasonable POV up to now.
But at this point it isn't really the case any more. We need a CF and a midfielder, certainly. But beyond that there's no longer any area in the starting eleven more obviously in need of an upgrade than the goalkeeper position. Based on the amount of signings we usually look to make in a summer, that would typically mean this is the time to finally address this issue.
You could argue that starting eleven aside, we need better depth in other positions before we address GK. But even that's undermined by the De Gea & Heaton contract situations, Butland being on loan and Henderson obviously wanting a permanent move away. The goalkeeper situation needs to be addressed this summer regardless. So it would seem odd to punt the inevitable upgrade that has to happen further down the line by sticking with De Gea as the
unchallenged #1.
It isn't a question of whether the upgrade is needed, it should be clear to anyone with eyes in their head that it is. The question is whether there's any reasonable argument for delaying that upgrade for another season, accepting the limitations it will continue to place on how the team can play.
The more central issue is "he's the least of our problems" type arguments, which accept his flaws but argue we have too many more pressing issues to address them at the moment. Because that has typically been the more reasonable POV up to now.
But at this point it isn't really the case any more. We need a CF and a midfielder, certainly. But beyond that there's no longer any area in the starting eleven more obviously in need of an upgrade than the goalkeeper position. Based on the amount of signings we usually look to make in a summer, that would typically mean this is the time to finally address this issue.
You could argue that starting eleven aside, we need better depth in other positions before we address GK. But even that's undermined by the De Gea & Heaton contract situations, Butland being on loan and Henderson obviously wanting a permanent move away. The goalkeeper situation needs to be addressed this summer regardless. So it would seem odd to punt the inevitable upgrade that has to happen further down the line by sticking with De Gea as the
unchallenged #1.
It isn't a question of whether the upgrade is needed, it should be clear to anyone with eyes in their head that it is. The question is whether there's any reasonable argument for delaying that upgrade for another season, accepting the limitations it will continue to place on how the team can play.
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I revised my figures. De Gea has conceded 14 in his last 20 matches
That's pretty good
That's pretty good
I do think De Gea should get a lot of credit for the fact we've conceded 15 goals in the past 24 games, yes.
Why are you giving De Gea credit for games he hasn't played in? You're the one who invented looking at 24 games as some kind of metric to suit your point of view; the reality is that in De Gea's last 24 games we've conceded 23 goals.
I think the City and Ominia games were a turning point for the whole team, so I went from there. 15 in 24 since then is really impressive and De Gea has been a big part
Yes he's limited with the ball at his feet and playing it out, he's also still not the best at handling crosses, his shot stopping isn't as sharp as it used to be. But I love him, he tries to play the ball out nowadays, you can see that, he tries to come off his line more often than he's comfortable doing.
We do need to replace him, but he's been a very solid servant for the club.
We do need to replace him, but he's been a very solid servant for the club.
The past few pages have melted my brain, basically been:
"Well thought out points"
"15 in 24 doe"
"Well thought out points"
"15 in 24 doe"
Agreed, I think we’d concede less if we had another keeper
Why were they a turning point? Had we not won 4 league games on the bounce, inc Liverpool and Arsenal, before City?
We've conceded 6 in De Gea's last 7 games, but I thought you said we'd turned a corner? Can't you see how ridiculous the one stat you're hanging your hat on is?
So what is it: 15 in 24 or 23 in 24? Someone clear this up.
Can someone look at expected goals conceded vs goals conceded? More useful than save percentages maybe.
Can someone look at expected goals conceded vs goals conceded? More useful than save percentages maybe.
Nope I think it's a stat that shows how far the team have come defensively since that period.
It's 23 in De Gea's last 24 games. The 15 in 24 is United's last 24 games, including games De Gea didn't play in.
PSxG has been done to death but for the season so far he is -2.5.
Which part melted your brain?
The stuff you agreed with or the stat you didn't like.
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United have conceded 15 in the past 24 games
Ddg is so good, he's keeping clean sheets when he doesn't play
I’m really not that bothered.
I’m sure ETH is delighted with the clean sheets, and credits DDG for playing his part. He’s also constantly bemoaning our lack of control in games; it’s possible that he sees DDG’s style of play as a contributor to that.
"DDG: Arguably the worst keeper in the PL".
An actual claim posted on the caf a few weeks ago.
An actual claim posted on the caf a few weeks ago.
He’s definitely much closer to the worst than he is to the best
A matter of opinion of course and opinions make the caf a great forum. But I don't agree.
The difficulty is deciding which sample of form to draw conclusions from. We can do with this season (so far) only, which is probably most reasonable; or we can go with the last four seasons (not too unreasonable) or the last decade (probably unreasonable).
I just ran a google search on top keepers in the PL and Kepa turns up at the top. I'm not persuaded. Is he on amazing form of late? Sure, but form of late isn't a serious way to look at the overall quality of a keeper. Leno also ranks higher than De Gea, but I'm not having that either. Fabianski and Pickford also turn up with high marks on various lists, but no serious observer would replace with De Gea either Fabiasnki or Pickford. Or Leno. Kepa, perhaps.
I'm not going to go through all the keepers in the PL right now, but only a few clearly stand out in quality over the last few seasons (I'm not going to get sucked into a debate over form over the last 2-3 matches) and they are:
Alisson
Ederson
I'm actually not a huge fan of Ederson, but out of respect for his trophies (dubious as they may be) I'll rank him as at least an equal to De Gea, Ederson clearly being superior in distribution and De Gea being clearly superior as a shot stopper.
Pope has been outstanding this season and anyone who makes the case for swapping out De Gea for Pope has a fair case. Maybe even a compelling case.
Player Comparison: Nick Pope vs. David de Gea vs. Alisson vs. Ederson vs. Diogo Costa vs. Aaron Ramsdale | FBref.com
But if you look at their stats, De Gea comes out pretty decently. De Gea suffers from the goals we shipped in early in the season -- 2 to Brighton, 4 to Brentford and 6 to City -- all of which De Gea undeniably has to take some share of accountability for as well as everyone else in the starting XI. We were a sinking ship early in ETH's tenure, no question about it, but we've righted the ship and it's mostly one clean sheet after another (often thanks to incredible saves as well as solid back line defending and the magisterial work of Casemiro), marred only by the sporadic one goal we concede, though three to Arsenal, the PL leader at the moment (we may just catch them in the end), a few weeks ago. Meanwhile, Pope and Newcastle in general have been magnificent this season. Alisson and Ederson...not so magnificent this season. Ramsdale has had a solid season, but I trust no one here would swap out De Gea for Ramsdale. Or Lloris, or even Martinez of Villa.
De Gea easily comes out in the top 10 of the PL, although it's fine margins between the rest after Pope on this season's form,
You’d be crazy to not swap Ramsdale for De Gea. Ramsdale offers everything De Gea does, but his passing is a million times better and he’s so much more comfortable on the ball. Not too sure about his cross claiming but I’m certain he doesn’t frequently punch the ball instead of catching and doesn’t also feel glued to his goal line. But I guess Ramsdale doesn’t do enough camera saves, he doesn’t use his reverse arms to do saves so it doesn’t look half as good
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https://www.skysports.com/football/manchester-city-vs-manchester-united/report/257267
‘De Gea's frailties under the high ball are well known by now. When David Silva curled over the second of successive corners, a stronger, more confident goalkeeper might have come to punch. Instead, he left it to his defenders.’
‘United might have found themselves two down when De Gea came for a corner without getting near it’
over TEN years ago and we’re still facing the same issues. That game cost us the title, so many times over the years he’s cost us in crucial moments - 2 that spring to mind instantly was the Chelsea game at home under Ole and Upton Park last game both in different seasons and the reason we missed out on UCL football. Genuinely can’t wait till he leave the club
‘De Gea's frailties under the high ball are well known by now. When David Silva curled over the second of successive corners, a stronger, more confident goalkeeper might have come to punch. Instead, he left it to his defenders.’
‘United might have found themselves two down when De Gea came for a corner without getting near it’
over TEN years ago and we’re still facing the same issues. That game cost us the title, so many times over the years he’s cost us in crucial moments - 2 that spring to mind instantly was the Chelsea game at home under Ole and Upton Park last game both in different seasons and the reason we missed out on UCL football. Genuinely can’t wait till he leave the club
My worry is the big moments especially in cup games that we've seen him make howlers or mistakes with lack of concentration
Top of my head I can think of(post fergie):
-semi final v Sunderland under Moyes
-fa cup semi Vs Chelsea (few in that game)
-vs Barca / Messi shot in second leg
-even the mistake Vs Everton this season in the cup (thankfully didn't cost us)
Also that Leipzig game we lost 3-2 where he meekly turns himself away from a shot that gives them the third goal.
There's the final v villareal where you can arguably say he's standing on the six yard box when the free kick is taken, when the ball lands it's just outside the six yard line and he himself somehow has gone backwards towards the goal.
Also the winner for the Sevilla 2-1 Europa semi final is arguably on him and a question on his bravery (though lindelof too is at fault for sure but the ball is basically landing on the six yard line again)
If we use Schmeichel and VDS as what we expect as a minimum, the two weren't just great due to their saves, the fact they could instill calmness (or fear) into our defence. And also they didn't have to make saves at times cos they could nullify that opportunity by their positioning or ability to relieve pressure by getting the ball.
I think people forget what that is like because we've had ddg for so long. Look there's a possibility that ddg replacement might not be better than him and that's a risk you take but you do that with the hope of getting better. We didn't get Schmeichel replacement correct first time
And looking at our rivals city didn't get harts replacement correct first time (bravo) and had to go back into the market
Same with Liverpool, people questioned is karius really better than mignolet (but they went back and got Allison who is miles better than both)
I like Dave but we shouldnt be stuck on this notion that he's the best we can do
Now that's a stupid complaint to have about De Gea.
Most of the De Gea haters are obviously agenda-driven because anything else doesn't make sense. If ten Hag was planning to move him on, he would have given him some indication, especially whilst negotiating the new contract as they are usually based on certain assurances.
De Gea isn't signing a new contract to be a #2. And all this moaning about him when we are still in 4 comps and probably playing the best team football since Sir Alex is just nonsense.
Why do people take criticism against their favourite players personally? I never understand that
You can see flaws and comment on it without having an agenda or a hater.
You can see flaws and comment on it without having an agenda or a hater.
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