If I do not understand the game, after reading this thread, I would have thought the 1st skillset a goalkeeper should have is his distribution rather than stopping shots into the net.
1
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 58
- Clean sheets
- 25
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
- Status
2 great saves yesterday, he kept us in the game. It could have ended way different if not for him.
Pep & Arteta both bought goalkeepers with fairly average shot stopping abilities, on the basis of their other strengths, so it makes sense to some managers. The rationale is that a good team doesn't concede that many chances. Last season Ederson only faced 83 shots on target in the entire league season, which is slightly over 2 per game. So the value of a keeper that can be above average at shot stopping is limited. On the other hand, City probably build out from the back 5 to 10 times a game, so they get a lot of value from someone good at that. Its a case of matching the keeper's strengths to the team's strengths.
The scale of the difference between shot stoppers is often misunderstood anyway. While there are always a couple of keepers who have blinders in any given season, most of the time the difference between an excellent shot stopper and a bang average shot-stopper is only 3 or 4 goals over the entire season. So even the better keepers are only saving 1 extra goal every 10 games or so. The margins are finer than people often think at the highest level.
1st row is DDG's stats from this game, and then Ederson's season stats. Ederson is the best keeper with the ball in the world.
Short pass attempt Short successful Short % Medium attempt Medium successful Medium % Long attempt Long successful Long % 3 3 100 13 13 100 14 24 58 185 187 98.9 471 476 98.9 220 353 62.3
With one exception, all the frequent posters in this thread are purely agenda-driven and their posts are a waste of space
Great work. They are so biased against a United legend.
???
this wouldn't affect DDG's long passing percentage at all. and he had 3 short passes all game.
Agreed. And yet yesterday their passing stats were identical while the usual posters were pointing DDG out as the main culprit for the first half. So either his passing yesterday was mucch better than you thought, or Ederson is another dinosaur.
If you pump it long hoping for the best, you don't connect more than half the time, which he did. Especially since the opposition outnumbers the players you are trying to pick out.
so true. Some strange posts on here.It's not about De Gea's pass percentage but rather about building the play effectively through the defensive third.
Do Man City with Ederson struggle to build play effectively through the defensive third? Their success and domestic dominance within Guardiola's positional play principles is for all to see.
And when you watch football, do you try and understand the tactics/strategy the manager is trying to implement? Guardiola is asking the same question. And the answer to this question is where the criticism for De Gea stems from and what he can't do as a keeper and not what he can do.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Good post, though I do think De Gea makes saves that a lot of good keepers just don't, so it might be more than 3-4 in his case over his 45 games a year or so, maybe more like 5-6 if you figure he makes one save every 9 games or so he plays, which feels reasonable.
I imagine Ten Hag is conflicted and probably hasn't made a decision yet, unless we've tapped up Raya.
Might be a money decision. New owners and big budget means Ten Hag can get his ideal replacement (as long as they aren't already at a top 15 club or so in the world), and smaller budget and maybe De Gea signs a 2+1 and Ten Hag puts off the decision until next year but we bring in the best young keeper we can find for 10-15M. There were rumours of an MLS 23 year old Serbian this week, maybe something like that. Obviously Leipzig have already moved faster than us and signed the young highly-rated Belgian for 10M.
People baulk at the idea of a keeper having good distribution and maintain DDG is still a great shot stopper in spite of all the evidence that suggests otherwise. He makes ridiculous saves but also lets in shots that he should be saving. He made that one on Sunday full stretch across the goal, but let a simpler one bounce by him at the near post against Barca last week.
If you want to play a possesion game where your keeper is crucial to creating overloads i the defensive third to.open gaps and have him play through the lines. DDG is not the guy to do that.
If you want to play a high line you need a keeper who is going to command his defence to push up and dominate the space in behind sweeping and claiming high balls. He's not the guy to do that either.
It seems to me people are holding on to the idea that he has saved the team in the past and every time he makes a save it makes them jizz there pants a little. Then they horse on in here and declare that he's still the best there is and we should be more respectful for what he has done. I can remember him also losing the club many games and getting knocked out of competitions and making bigger blunders than Taibi.
For me, he's been a great servant. But his style is just not what's required going forward if this team is to really push on to the next level.
That 3-4 is taken from the actual goalkeeping stats of the last few years, De Gea is not ordinarily in that tier of keepers in terms of goal-saving stats, though he was last season.
As for his replacement, I'm sure its a mix of factors. Money is undoubtedly one. Even if his new contract has higher wages than someone like David Raya, not paying a transfer fee might make it easier to do wheeling and dealing in other departments. Plus, he's clearly respected in the dressing room, and ETH values the importance of a strong group, so he might be concerned about the impact changing him would have. Or maybe he sees the development in DDG's game and thinks that by next season he'll get better again in terms of distribution, coming out, etc.
I also think part of it is the lack of a no-brainer replacement. If Allison or Ter Stegen were on the market, there'd be no question about us trying to get them. But most of the touted replacements are younger players at mid-sized clubs, who may have better stats and a more rounded game, but there's an element of risk there. We took that kind of risk with DDG himself and Im sure we'd all agree that worked over well, but lets not forget it was a turbulent first season for DDG, so even among better keepers it doesn't always run smoothly.
He drops because he's anticipating a shot from the very left footed Ian Nacho from outside the area. If he keeps coming forward and the shot comes in he would be in a horrible position (and would also be in a position where he could very easily be lobbed)
On the second, he's beyond the near post because, if the ball comes low and hard to his left, he needs to be able to turn it around the post - not into his own goal.
Yeah he just doesn't drop anticipating a shot from Iheanacho, because it's never on and he can see that, maybe a long range shot from Barnes although he then drops a further couple of paces while Iheanacho is on the ball and playing it to Barnes as such by the time Barnes gets the ball he's made three steps inside his six yard box, if he held his position on the six yard line and makes the three steps forward he made while Barnes is readying himself to shoot it's an easier stop to make - it doesn't make it any less of an impressive stop. It's particularly odd that you cut the part where I praised him for making the save and the significant improvement in that part of his game vs last season; "However, last season he would have held his position once Barnes went clean through, we saw it a number of times, however here he took two or three quick steps forward and made Barnes take the shot early leading to him making the save. Much more aggressive goalkeeping and a huge improvement IMO".
As for the second I'd agree with you if he was the type of goalkeeper that generally cuts low balls into his near post area out, but he's just not. It's been a flaw in his game even during his better seasons; if you are the type of goalkeeper who does cut those out you tend to come to your front post, rather than past the front post although there is a growing tendency in the more aggressive goalkeepers to go beyond their front post, which I never particularly like or recommend to players of any level but if they are quick enough to get away with it then great - I referred to Raya as a goalkeeper I like that does often cross his front post and get back to make the save. If this is the first step towards De Gea becoming that aggressive goalkeeper that I've wanted him to be then great. However I did also say which you've neglected to quote that it was a "brilliant save" but I guess that's just where we are with this thread at the moment.
I wanna say I hope he has a motm performance Vs Barca but really for the sake of my sanity, I hope he has sweet FA to do
Holds his position and steps up, he makes that first save a close block like what Ward did to Weghorst.
Second one, there's no need for him to be where he is, the last few weeks he's holding onto the post and this week he goes too far beyond it.
They were great saves. But for me he puts himself in the position where he ends up having to make those stops because of his initial poor positioning. A better positioned keeper deals with both those situations more easily, without the theatrics.
De Gea actually positioned himself perfectly for the two world class saves he made against Leicester City to keep the game 0-0. If we're looking for someone to beat the shit out of for those two glorious chances on goal, we would do well to look at the back line who got carved open like a turkey on Thanksgiving. As for the saves themselves, I doubt even Alisson (best keeper in the league for me, although Pope is the current form man), let alone Pope, would have had a chance of making those saves.
More great footballing goalies. Get out the stat books lads.
Wish we had Ramsdale, Pope, Courtois, or Alisson. They all have been great the past few weeks haven't they.
Would still have both Courtois and Alisson every day of the week.
Obviously. Some fans really struggle to see the full picture.
Some of you lot are going to be a bit mystified at the levels of improvement we will see when we get an actual quality goalkeeper.
We've already seen it when Romero and Henderson had decent runs in the team and they are bang average.
We've already seen it when Romero and Henderson had decent runs in the team and they are bang average.
So turns out all keepers make mistakes. It also turns out that all goalkeepers number one job is to prevent goals. Everything else is secondary. Thanks to Rashford, Sancho and De Gea for the 3 points at the weekend.
I really get second hand embarrassment to support the same club as some people here. Too eager to shit on our players, even when they haven't done anything wrong.
Happens with DDG, happens with Bruno, happens with Rashford.
Happens with DDG, happens with Bruno, happens with Rashford.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
A thread on not closing down the attacker to early the opposite of what you said
Usual suspects again, even after a recognized good performance.
Specifically the opposite.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
In general there's plenty of reason to criticise De Gea but doing so in relation to that Leicester game in particular would be beyond odd. Fully agree with the argument that he should be replaced but that shouldn't require people to be critical after actual excellent games.
I'm usually quite critical of De Gea but the first save was really well done and I was quite surprised he actually made that, as we've seen before many times that he would stay still on his line. I think the clean sheets and our run of form has made him a lot sharper than usual (compared to the previous poorer 2 seasons).
The second save on the line though, I would generally agree that his position was a bit off (a step forward too much in front of the post). Good save but seemed a bit fundamentally off for me.
Either way, it was a decent game from him.
I get that he’s not got the passing range of goalies that play in similarly progressive systems, but which keeper is going to be realistically available this summer that can make the saves he makes? I don’t watch a lot of domestic league football outside of the PL, so those that do might know of a keeper I’m unaware of.
Did you read the post I quoted? Oranges said de gea should have closed him down a lot earlier a blocked the shot ie "too early" which is what happened allison last night.
Oranges wanted de gea to do exactly what alison done, the opposite of what he should do.
Entirely different situations though.
I mean they aren't. People swear by this guy and how he grades keepers and hes specifically praising de gea sitting back and waiting yet you still can't just sya great save without some caveat
Last edited:
I completely understand if some or many of the people here believe that we can do better than De Gea. But the amount of mental gymnastics done to prove an undeniably great performance as some sort of a fluke or even a problem of his own creation is quite ridiculous.
We look at some of the best keepers in the world in Ederson, Courtois and Allison and they are making some pretty damn blatant mistakes. Ederson has conceded a goal from the first shot in target in each of his last 4 games. People have visualised a mythical keeper who is a great passer and routinely pulls off spectacular saves and has no mistakes in them. And it would be a rude awakening once we actually get a new name in.
Yes, we could get a keeper who is better aerially or is a better passer than De Gea. But saving shots like the Iheanacho header is something very few keepers will pull off and it’s a quality which is easy to dismiss but almost impossible to replace. And we’ll only find it out the hard way.
We look at some of the best keepers in the world in Ederson, Courtois and Allison and they are making some pretty damn blatant mistakes. Ederson has conceded a goal from the first shot in target in each of his last 4 games. People have visualised a mythical keeper who is a great passer and routinely pulls off spectacular saves and has no mistakes in them. And it would be a rude awakening once we actually get a new name in.
Yes, we could get a keeper who is better aerially or is a better passer than De Gea. But saving shots like the Iheanacho header is something very few keepers will pull off and it’s a quality which is easy to dismiss but almost impossible to replace. And we’ll only find it out the hard way.
I know, I was agreeing with you.
The thing is, most goalkeepers in the league will have a highlight reel like Dave's over a season.
What you will not see in these is how their proactivity, decision making and bravery impacts on the teams performance. Even Dave's biggest fans admit he likes to stay rooted to the line (although he has been sweeping better this season).
Romero and Henderson aren't great, but they weren't shrinking violets and they helped relieve pressure with their actions rather than reacting to the end result of that pressure. This was borne out in every statistical metric measuring team and goalkeeper performance when they played (better save percentages too, but we'll leave that).
De Gea's contract is still in doubt and there are strong rumours we are chasing a keeper, so I doubt people on these boards are the only ones with concerns over his performances.
Oh my bad. Thought you were disagreeing ha.
It's also worth noting he's clearly improving in coming off his line for balls over the top and punching crosses. His ball play is better.
It's amazing what good coaches can do. Has de gea not been told to do any of this under previous regimes?
It's amazing what good coaches can do. Has de gea not been told to do any of this under previous regimes?
Yes, under Hoek he spent much more time training as part of the team and he did get better of those elements of his game. Sadly after Hoek left we allowed him to pick his own coach and Alvarez came in and he pretty much regressed overnight back to the goal-line type of goalkeeper. Ten Hag will definitely have him spending much more time training with the team rather than alone and it's clearly benefitting his game.
I don't think that's the case. Most people still understand that goalkeepers mistakes happen. The problem with De Gea is his lack of pro-activeness that is evident, well documented and clear to see for all.
With De Gea it's more like "meh, he could do better here to go for that cross/ make a better pass in the buildup" rather than "he fecked up big time here". He's OK overall, it's just not enough in my eyes.
I think you are overrating De Gea shot stopping ability here. He is a good shotstopper but not a top in that regard, hasn't been for a few years.
- Status